Did/does anyone else feel like they "changed" after 1L?

[sethc]

I'm dumbfounded by the earnestness of OP. Would I have understood it before law school? I don't even know anymore.

This gives me an idea for a new thread called "Did/does anyone else feel like they "changed" after being exposed to TLS?"

+100000. Wow - couldn't agree more. I feel like the basic premise for this entire forum's existence is counterproductive for the most part. Many users are clearly very helpful, but there are far too many that feel like a sarcastic response without serious consideration on what's being asked is always appropriate and warranted. It's my fault for coming here, sure, but I can't help but point it out.

I'm dumbfounded by the earnestness of OP. Would I have understood it before law school? I don't even know anymore.

Again forgive me if I'm misinterpreting something you meant as satire/sarcasm.. but if you're serious I can see where you're coming from completely.

Today I was driving through a brand-new downtown apartment community. Looking around, I thought, "this is a great example of planned unit development!"

Haha that's actually a good example.

I haven't gone to law school yet but I imagine it's something like this ...

Poetry as a descriptive tool has never been up my alley (I always sucked at poetry) and thus I don't have a great understanding of poetry in general. But, after reading your post it's not far off the mark from where I'm sitting. Since you aren't a current law student, I offer you a very serious piece of advice that I ALWAYS dismissed immediately: consider heavily every aspect of law school before deciding to go.

I'm not as funny as I was. When asked for my opinion on anything, my answer is almost always some variation of 'maybe,' augmented by arguments from each side. I use the words "analysis," "brilliant," and "prestigious," in contexts that annoy those around me. My writing style is choppy and economical.

Spot on, I have the same kind of curse/blessing. It's good in so many ways, but bad in just as many. I feel like I have a greater concept of reasoning and how to explain a lot of stuff.. but the jury is still out on whether that's an overall good thing again. CHRIST I just realized I did it again in this response.

i've definitely changed in that i have never been this stressed out and under pressure in my life. and it ain't gonna end anytime soon.

100000% accurate. If anything in life is ever as collectively stressful as law school is/will be -- I seriously am almost excited to see just what the fuck it might consist of.

uh, no

a lot of you sound kind of obnoxious

or maybe i failed all my classes and that's why i'm not getting what i'm reading here.

My vote is the former. Way too many people on here do nothing more than personal ridicule or just troll in general.

[rbgrocio]

I dunno if it really changed me. I would say I am more bitchy than before!

[Bronte]

I'm dumbfounded by the earnestness of OP. Would I have understood it before law school? I don't even know anymore.

Again forgive me if I'm misinterpreting something you meant as satire/sarcasm.. but if you're serious I can see where you're coming from completely.

Ha, you seem like an good guy OP. Yes, my comment was mostly a joke. With regards to your concerns about the sarcasm and vitriol on TLS, you have to understand that this forum is meant to provide a hybrid of information, entertainment, and socializing. In my experience, it mostly delivers, even if it goes too far in one direction or another at times.

(Also, if you've frequented other anonymous forums, you might note that sarcasm and vitriol is the norm. In this respect, TLS is actually much more civil than many forums.)

[sethc]

I'm dumbfounded by the earnestness of OP. Would I have understood it before law school? I don't even know anymore.

Again forgive me if I'm misinterpreting something you meant as satire/sarcasm.. but if you're serious I can see where you're coming from completely.

Ha, you seem like an good guy OP. Yes, my comment was mostly a joke. With regards to your concerns about the sarcasm and vitriol on TLS, you have to understand that this forum is meant to provide a hybrid of information, entertainment, and socializing. In my experience, it mostly delivers, even if it goes too far in one direction or another at times.

(Also, if you've frequented other anonymous forums, you might note that sarcasm and vitriol is the norm. In this respect, TLS is actually much more civil than many forums.)

Thanks for the kind words. I do realize how TLS works and that, essentially, if someone is going to use it to learn stuff about law school then the yin must be taken with the yang -- as with most ANY other forum where everyone can remain virtually anonymous. 4chan is easily the poster-boy for that I guess. I love a lot of their stuff - it cracks me up.. but I never take part posting there for reasons we've discussed.

As for here, specifically, knowing and understanding all of this should preclude me from getting pissy about it. But, I try to answer others' questions/concerns from the same standpoint I'm in or that I've been through with respect to law school.. and giving helpful service to somebody else that needs it is something I take very seriously. Especially if I feel qualified to ask or to answer. So, I guess that's where some of my contempt stems from. I love TLS and feel like it's overall beneficial to anyone to use it for what it's meant and I even love sarcasm.. but I just have a disdain for it if someone is lost and needs help, I guess. Take it as nothing more than me venting, I suppose.

[Bronte]

I'll give you a serious response: I think every experience changes a person. The question is just how much, and although it obviously differs person by person, I think the extent to which law school changes people is greatly exaggerated. At a Christmas party last year with my folks, one of my parents' friends, when he learned I was going to law school said, "Oh, I had a friend who went to law school, and I don't see him anymore because it turned him into an asshole." I find it unlikely that law school was the primary causal factor (there I go, lol). It's a big and trying experience, but people are also usually at a point in their lives where they'll be changing a lot anyway.

[JazzOne]

On a serious note, I have found law school to be incredibly humbling. Even when you win, you lose.

[sethc]

I'll give you a serious response: I think every experience changes a person. The question is just how much, and although it obviously differs person by person, I think the extent to which law school changes people is greatly exaggerated. At a Christmas party last year with my folks, one of my parents' friends, when he learned I was going to law school said, "Oh, I had a friend who went to law school, and I don't see him anymore because it turned him into an asshole." I find it unlikely that law school was the primary causal factor (there I go, lol). It's a big and trying experience, but people are also usually at a point in their lives where they'll be changing a lot anyway.

That's great input - thanks man. I think I agree with just about all of that. I do recognize that law school had something to do with it, but what I'm struggling with I guess is, like you said, how much. I'm not so sure that simply turning 24 years old, moving states/being TRULY "on my own" with no friends etc., means "Ok, now I'm to point X.. shit changed." and boom, it's done. Sorry if that's convoluted or anything - I'm sure it is. I just have some various personal issues that most people (much less law students) will likely never face and I am trying to quantify or put a metric on each individual variable to see if I can't see what's caused all of this right after 1L finals. Or maybe I'm just going completely nuts like A Beautiful Mind lol

Oh and a side note I don't think I touched on -- my last response wasn't intended to include you, specifically, at all. So, my bad if you thought that.

On a serious note, I have found law school to be incredibly humbling. Even when you win, you lose.

That's a good, good way to put it. I know you get paid $$ as an attorney to be in that kind of situation.. but if law school is to prepare you for what being an attorney will bring, then I think they're doing a damn fine job with that particular aspect.

[berkeleykel06]

uh, no

a lot of you sound kind of obnoxious

or maybe i failed all my classes and that's why i'm not getting what i'm reading here.

+1

I haven't changed in the slightest.

This whole thread is really weird.

[sethc]

This whole thread is really weird.

Yeah, I know. I really didn't intend for it to come out that way, but I tried to at least allude to warning everyone in my OP.. but I'm sure that didn't come out right either. Sorry you think it's weird or possibly frivolous, but my goal is to hear from as many different perspectives as I can so feel free to jump in!

[Bronte]

Weird threads are good.

[berkeleykel06]

Weird threads are good.

Weird/funny threads are good. This thread is weird/wordy.

This whole thread is really weird.

Yeah, I know. I really didn't intend for it to come out that way, but I tried to at least allude to warning everyone in my OP.. but I'm sure that didn't come out right either. Sorry you think it's weird or possibly frivolous, but my goal is to hear from as many different perspectives as I can so feel free to jump in!

No need to apologize to me. I'm being rude. I just think you think too much.

[beach_terror]

:lol:

Are you guys all going to that Philly Law Student party thing?

I might, could be fun. Are you? A friend from UG just posted it to my fb wall, so I just found out yesterday.

[RUQRU]

This whole thread is really weird.

Yeah, I know... but my goal is to hear from as many different perspectives as I can so feel free to jump in!

As a non-trad who has done an MBA and has worked in the "real world" for many, many, many years, law school seems largely a bull$hit experience -- a form of ritualized hazing. The professors are pretentious windbags and the younger folks, right out of undergrad, are balls of nerves. I can see how, as a 24 year-old, it might "change" you because you do not have a fully secure sense of self. You might think law school really "means" something. It does not.

You might think it trains in some kind of "special" way of thinking. Really? Any successful businessperson knows how to use analytical tools to understand problems and make decisions. The high priests of legal education want to make the public think they have awesome special powers. Really?

Law school is merely a filtering device to lower the number of people who want to take the bar. Ask any lawyer, they will tell you that passing the bar and working as a lawyer has nothing to do with what they did in law school. In fact, passing the bar has nothing to do with working as a lawyer. The whole process is aimed at protecting the profit margins of those in any given market.

So Seth, take it for what it is. Do not over think your "experience." It is a trade school of sorts that does not even do a really go job of training people as tradesmen. That is why there are so many LWR courses now days. Firms complained the law school grads could not even write a basic office memo. So now they try to teach you that.

Most of all, enjoy yourself and don't worry about what other people think about you. The best advice I ever received is "be yourself, no one else wants the job."

Good luck...

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Dumbest thread I've seen in a quite awhile, I think this whole "I'm so different than the world and just can't relate" idea dies pretty fast come 2L year when it is no longer tremendously exciting to be going to law school. Get over it, don't lose touch with the non-law world or you are beginning on a long road of despair.

[keg411]

:lol:

Are you guys all going to that Philly Law Student party thing?

I might, could be fun. Are you? A friend from UG just posted it to my fb wall, so I just found out yesterday.

Probably. A bunch of my friends from here are going and I figure it could be fun.

[sethc]

Weird threads are good.

I agree - thanks!

Weird/funny threads are good. This thread is weird/wordy.

Yeah, sorry.. I've touched on being wordy as a person and as it relates to law school in earlier posts. Not a whole lot I can do to help that.. and with this specific post I feel like the more detailed my description is, the more people will understand what I'm saying/asking and it will be much clearer. As for my responses - I've asked for serious thoughts/advice on a very important personal issue so I feel like a serious response is simply due respect for their time and effort. That's just out of principle because of how I am, though.

This whole thread is really weird.
No need to apologize to me. I'm being rude. I just think you think too much.

I agree that I think too much, for sure. I was bad about before law school, but after my first term it's increased leaps & bounds (obviously lol)

As a non-trad who has done an MBA and has worked in the "real world" for many, many, many years, law school seems largely a bull$hit experience -- a form of ritualized hazing. The professors are pretentious windbags and the younger folks, right out of undergrad, are balls of nerves. I can see how, as a 24 year-old, it might "change" you because you do not have a fully secure sense of self. You might think law school really "means" something. It does not.

You might think it trains in some kind of "special" way of thinking. Really? Any successful businessperson knows how to use analytical tools to understand problems and make decisions. The high priests of legal education want to make the public think they have awesome special powers. Really?

Law school is merely a filtering device to lower the number of people who want to take the bar. Ask any lawyer, they will tell you that passing the bar and working as a lawyer has nothing to do with what they did in law school. In fact, passing the bar has nothing to do with working as a lawyer. The whole process is aimed at protecting the profit margins of those in any given market.

So Seth, take it for what it is. Do not over think your "experience." It is a trade school of sorts that does not even do a really go job of training people as tradesmen. That is why there are so many LWR courses now days. Firms complained the law school grads could not even write a basic office memo. So now they try to teach you that.

Most of all, enjoy yourself and don't worry about what other people think about you. The best advice I ever received is "be yourself, no one else wants the job."

Good luck...

That's actually an awesome, helpful, amazing post - and I appreciate it a lot. Though I'm certainly not a non-trad (though I did go to grad school in between undergrad/LS) I agree with about all of what you're saying. Law school does seem like a systematic & mechanistic form of legal hazing (no pun intended). It's like 1L, at the least, is a rite of passage and you "wont understand" if you don't go through it. I understand why on one hand, but I'm just not convinced there isn't a better possible way of achieving the same goal(s).

I also concede you're right about analytical thinking. There's no reason anyone else could not acquire the same thought process/method of learning that one obtains while in law school. I just never thought about that way because of the obvious yet narrow-minded reason---that's not the way I experienced it. I didn't mean anything personal to you or anyone by my posts coming across that way. Law "pushers" are definitely holier-than-thou and support law school, in general, like a drug dealer supports their product, or so it seems. As someone young and essentially fresh out of college, it's easy to drink the Kool-Aid, I think, because that's certainly what I did.

I also agree law school is a filter. I sort of knew that going in though - just about any profession/school that requires one to "pass" a "test" that "certifies" your "abilities" is pretty arbitrary, if you think about it. There's good reasons why this is so as much as why not, I guess.

Again, thanks for your insight - it's nice to hear from a non-trad because I don't know very many nor did I ever in the past. "Be you" is the single best mantra I have learned thanks to law school. I always pushed this mindset both internally and to others, but because "what works for you" is so important for success in law school I think I have grown to appreciate it much more.

Dumbest thread I've seen in a quite awhile, I think this whole "I'm so different than the world and just can't relate" idea dies pretty fast come 2L year when it is no longer tremendously exciting to be going to law school. Get over it, don't lose touch with the non-law world or you are beginning on a long road of despair.

If you find it to be so meaningless, I'm not so sure why you posted. If it was out of kindness, then forgive me for not seeing it. Though I think you're onto something about 2L. I don't have the feeling of not being able to relate. Specific people, maybe, but I don't think (with those people) that's a product of a term of law school. However, I do agree that this whole thing will probably "die down" as time goes on. Most feelings do, in general.. but not being that far along has caused me to be much more curious than usual.

[A'nold]

To the naysayers: If law school hasn't changed the way you at least think when talking to lay people, you're obviously not grasping the concepts.....

I am the same guy to everyone that I've always been: kind, caring, empathetic, etc. However, I can't even express how much law school has changed the way I think about even miniscule things. Btw, I am a 2L.

[keg411]

To the naysayers: If law school hasn't changed the way you at least think when talking to lay people, you're obviously not grasping the concepts.....

I am the same guy to everyone that I've always been: kind, caring, empathetic, etc. However, I can't even express how much law school has changed the way I think about even miniscule things. Btw, I am a 2L.

A'nold, I did basically as well as you did your first semester and I don't feel like I think any different or that I've changed in any way. Maybe it's different because my parents are lawyers, but I dunno.

[td6624]

To the naysayers: If law school hasn't changed the way you at least think when talking to lay people, you're obviously not grasping the concepts.....

well i guess we'll see.

[berkeleykel06]

To the naysayers: If law school hasn't changed the way you at least think when talking to lay people, you're obviously not grasping the concepts.....

Or maybe you were just lacking things before you started law school that others of us already grasped

[td6624]

self-importance seems to be a pretty common characteristic of law students. i think this thread might partially be a result of that.

or maybe not. amateur psychology wooooo

[beach_terror]

I see this happening sometime soon between beach and spot

Bro, I'm a fucking gazelle. Don't insult me with that depiction.

FYI, I would definitely be the smaller one. He's about to trainwreck the fuck out of the one in the air. Jumping in fights is TTT.

[prezidentv8]

Jumping in fights is TTT.

TITCR. Unless you're about to deliver a flying kick or something.

[seespotrun]

I see this happening sometime soon between beach and spot

Bro, I'm a fucking gazelle. Don't insult me with that depiction.

FYI, I would definitely be the smaller one. He's about to trainwreck the fuck out of the one in the air. Jumping in fights is TTT.

I'd jump all over your face motherfucker.

[beach_terror]

Bro, I'm a fucking gazelle. Don't insult me with that depiction.

FYI, I would definitely be the smaller one. He's about to trainwreck the fuck out of the one in the air. Jumping in fights is TTT.

I'd jump all over your face motherfucker.

You have permission to do this when I end up below median. Please don't stop until you're sure that I'm dead.