Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

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ogresarelikeonions
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Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:25 am

Hey all, I've been fortunate to do well in law school so far, and since I'm having a slow night anyway, I thought I'd see if I could help offer any advice or answer questions on here. This is a new username for obvious reasons, but the TLS community has been very good to me so far. Fire away!

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uwb09
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby uwb09 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:26 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:Hey all, I've been fortunate to do well in law school so far, and since I'm having a slow night anyway, I thought I'd see if I could help offer any advice or answer questions on here. This is a new username for obvious reasons, but the TLS community has been very good to me so far. Fire away!

when did you apply to the job, that you eventually took your 1L summer?
were your 1L spring grades pretty similar to your fall grades?

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:28 am

uwb09 wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:Hey all, I've been fortunate to do well in law school so far, and since I'm having a slow night anyway, I thought I'd see if I could help offer any advice or answer questions on here. This is a new username for obvious reasons, but the TLS community has been very good to me so far. Fire away!

when did you apply to the job, that you eventually took your 1L summer?
were your 1L spring grades pretty similar to your fall grades?


I split my 1L summer. I applied to both at the beginning of winter break (right before Christmas) and interviewed for both in early to mid-January. So you all still have time!

My second semester GPA was a good deal better than my first semester's; it probably took me from about top 20 to within the top 5. That was mostly owing to one first semester grade that was my lowest of the year.

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:44 am

Haha is that it? Come on guys, give me something to do at least til midnight : )

random5483
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby random5483 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:48 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:I split my 1L summer. I applied to both at the beginning of winter break (right before Christmas) and interviewed for both in early to mid-January. So you all still have time!


You only applied for two summer positions?

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:50 am

random5483 wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:I split my 1L summer. I applied to both at the beginning of winter break (right before Christmas) and interviewed for both in early to mid-January. So you all still have time!


You only applied for two summer positions?


Haha, no, I sent letters out to a ton of firms (also in mid-December) that ultimately weren't hiring 1Ls. But I was lucky to get 2 good employers to bite sort of early, I guess.

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:58 am

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:What are you doing this summer? After graduating?


Favorite NES game?


Working for a firm in DC this summer. Hoping to clerk after graduation and then probably go into biglaw.

Haha is the NES question a gender identifier? (I'm sure my answer will be, at least.) And does NES mean original Nintendo only? Super Mario Bros on Super Nintendo and Mario Kart on Game Cube.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:59 am

How did you study and prepare for exams for each of your first year classes. Did you use supplements and how often and which ones etc? Also, how much did you study per week and per day (etc.)? I know these questions are always asked but I like to hear different peoples experiences and stuff.

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sojuteacher
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby sojuteacher » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:05 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:What are you doing this summer? After graduating?


Favorite NES game?


Working for a firm in DC this summer. Hoping to clerk after graduation and then probably go into biglaw.

Haha is the NES question a gender identifier? (I'm sure my answer will be, at least.) And does NES mean original Nintendo only? Super Mario Bros on Super Nintendo and Mario Kart on Game Cube.


Have fun in the DC summer!

How has your study/social life balance worked out? That is, to be a T5 student, how much more work were you doing in comparison to your peers? Or sheer genius?

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:05 am

Joga Bonito wrote:How did you study and prepare for exams for each of your first year classes. Did you use supplements and how often and which ones etc? Also, how much did you study per week and per day (etc.)? I know these questions are always asked but I like to hear different peoples experiences and stuff.


No problem. I do think everyone has to find what's right for them, so take my answers with a grain of salt.

I ended up studying a bit differently for each of my first year classes. In general, I think that understanding the structure of the course (how everything fits together) and then doctrine are the most important things, followed by understanding each professor's pet theories/favorite topics/etc. So, if lectures themselves provided good structure and doctrine, I studied almost exclusively from notes. To the extent that they didn't, I turned to textbooks first and supplements second but always made sure to go back and fill in the gaps with lecture notes to always keep in mind each professor's special emphases. I also tried to take (or at least read questions for) as many practice exams as possible but definitely ran out of time to do this at the end.

My daily studying is sort of disorganized (I study, watch tv, waste time online, repeat, and repeat, like most people, I'm sure), but I would guess that I study for 6+ hours a day except on days with really heavy class loads.

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:08 am

sojuteacher wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:What are you doing this summer? After graduating?


Favorite NES game?


Working for a firm in DC this summer. Hoping to clerk after graduation and then probably go into biglaw.

Haha is the NES question a gender identifier? (I'm sure my answer will be, at least.) And does NES mean original Nintendo only? Super Mario Bros on Super Nintendo and Mario Kart on Game Cube.


Have fun in the DC summer!

How has your study/social life balance worked out? That is, to be a T5 student, how much more work were you doing in comparison to your peers? Or sheer genius?


Haha it is not sheer genius, for sure. I've seen a lot of people say similar things, but I honestly just think it's a little bit of everything: being smart, diligent, knowing what they're looking for, and getting lucky in terms of course selection and your writing jibing with your professors.

My social life is not all that great objectively, I guess, although I'm happy with it. I had a little bit too much of a social life in undergrad and was willing to sacrifice that in law school to get the best results. That's obviously a choice that not everyone wants to--nor should they!--make. At the same time, I'm in a long-term relationship, so I spend most of my time with my SO and therefore wasn't really looking to get too involved with the law school party scene.

lakerfanimal
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:12 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:How did you study and prepare for exams for each of your first year classes. Did you use supplements and how often and which ones etc? Also, how much did you study per week and per day (etc.)? I know these questions are always asked but I like to hear different peoples experiences and stuff.


No problem. I do think everyone has to find what's right for them, so take my answers with a grain of salt.

I ended up studying a bit differently for each of my first year classes. In general, I think that understanding the structure of the course (how everything fits together) and then doctrine are the most important things, followed by understanding each professor's pet theories/favorite topics/etc. So, if lectures themselves provided good structure and doctrine, I studied almost exclusively from notes. To the extent that they didn't, I turned to textbooks first and supplements second but always made sure to go back and fill in the gaps with lecture notes to always keep in mind each professor's special emphases. I also tried to take (or at least read questions for) as many practice exams as possible but definitely ran out of time to do this at the end.

My daily studying is sort of disorganized (I study, watch tv, waste time online, repeat, and repeat, like most people, I'm sure), but I would guess that I study for 6+ hours a day except on days with really heavy class loads.


Thanks! 6+ hours including or excluding class? (I'm guessing excluding, but wanted to be sure). Also, any advice for 0L's for the summer before 1L?

Thanks again!

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:13 am

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:I would guess that I study for 6+ hours a day except on days with really heavy class loads.

Holy crap. I would've gone crazy if I had done that.

Also, +1 for Mario Kart.


Yea Mario Kart! "Here's your fire!" :twisted:

Haha, I never feel like I'm working harder or doing more than the majority of students at my school, but maybe I am? Everyone talks the talk, at least.

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:16 am

lakerfanimal wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:How did you study and prepare for exams for each of your first year classes. Did you use supplements and how often and which ones etc? Also, how much did you study per week and per day (etc.)? I know these questions are always asked but I like to hear different peoples experiences and stuff.


No problem. I do think everyone has to find what's right for them, so take my answers with a grain of salt.

I ended up studying a bit differently for each of my first year classes. In general, I think that understanding the structure of the course (how everything fits together) and then doctrine are the most important things, followed by understanding each professor's pet theories/favorite topics/etc. So, if lectures themselves provided good structure and doctrine, I studied almost exclusively from notes. To the extent that they didn't, I turned to textbooks first and supplements second but always made sure to go back and fill in the gaps with lecture notes to always keep in mind each professor's special emphases. I also tried to take (or at least read questions for) as many practice exams as possible but definitely ran out of time to do this at the end.

My daily studying is sort of disorganized (I study, watch tv, waste time online, repeat, and repeat, like most people, I'm sure), but I would guess that I study for 6+ hours a day except on days with really heavy class loads.


Thanks! 6+ hours including or excluding class? (I'm guessing excluding, but wanted to be sure). Also, any advice for 0L's for the summer before 1L?

Thanks again!


Excluding class, television, etc.

0L advice, let's see. My 0L summer, I was supposed to do a big internship but dropped it at the last minute (which I still feel bad about, haha) so that I could get some much-needed breathing time in before law school. I would suggest just chilling first and foremost. The 2 books I read are sort of cheesy but great reads, in my opinion, just because they help prepare you a bit for what law school will be like, although in totally different ways. They were Getting to Maybe and One L. Once I got to law school, I was so glad that I'd taken some introductory ec courses in undergrad, so I might recommend skimming through some of those materials if you haven't taken the courses or need a refresher.

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sojuteacher
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby sojuteacher » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:24 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:
My social life is not all that great objectively, I guess, although I'm happy with it. I had a little bit too much of a social life in undergrad and was willing to sacrifice that in law school to get the best results. That's obviously a choice that not everyone wants to--nor should they!--make. At the same time, I'm in a long-term relationship, so I spend most of my time with my SO and therefore wasn't really looking to get too involved with the law school party scene.


Further question about your social life -- how are relationships with your fellow students at the top of the class? Is it intensely, even negatively competitive between students?

Also, how large a factor was your class rank when securing your 1L summer employment?

Thanks for the study tips by the way :).

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:29 am

sojuteacher wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:
My social life is not all that great objectively, I guess, although I'm happy with it. I had a little bit too much of a social life in undergrad and was willing to sacrifice that in law school to get the best results. That's obviously a choice that not everyone wants to--nor should they!--make. At the same time, I'm in a long-term relationship, so I spend most of my time with my SO and therefore wasn't really looking to get too involved with the law school party scene.


Further question about your social life -- how are relationships with your fellow students at the top of the class? Is it intensely, even negatively competitive between students?

Also, how large a factor was your class rank when securing your 1L summer employment?

Thanks for the study tips by the way :).


You're welcome!

Because of being in sections 1L year, I didn't get to know most of the other students at the top of the class until law review and interviews started up. By then, it wasn't horribly competitive because there are enough great firms going after the top students that you don't feel like you have to claw at each other to get good spots. I don't know if it will get more competitive for clerkships coming up, though.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean with the second question, so let me know if this isn't what you're looking for. But for me, it just made the whole process easier. I bid on the maximum number of firms, but then I was able to do many fewer on-campus interviews and callbacks once I realized that they were going very well (due mostly to my class rank, I'm sure, but probably also from being a not-bad interviewer, at least). I became able to really target the few firms I was interested in, do a lot of research and thinking, and make what I hope was the best decision!

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gus
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby gus » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:40 am

curious: covington or wc?

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:41 am

gus wrote:curious: covington or wc?


Haha i won't give out more info than this, but neither. One of those firms I declined a callback to after getting an offer I knew I would rather accept, and the other I declined an offer from. It was a tough decision.

lakerfanimal
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:42 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:
lakerfanimal wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:How did you study and prepare for exams for each of your first year classes. Did you use supplements and how often and which ones etc? Also, how much did you study per week and per day (etc.)? I know these questions are always asked but I like to hear different peoples experiences and stuff.


No problem. I do think everyone has to find what's right for them, so take my answers with a grain of salt.

I ended up studying a bit differently for each of my first year classes. In general, I think that understanding the structure of the course (how everything fits together) and then doctrine are the most important things, followed by understanding each professor's pet theories/favorite topics/etc. So, if lectures themselves provided good structure and doctrine, I studied almost exclusively from notes. To the extent that they didn't, I turned to textbooks first and supplements second but always made sure to go back and fill in the gaps with lecture notes to always keep in mind each professor's special emphases. I also tried to take (or at least read questions for) as many practice exams as possible but definitely ran out of time to do this at the end.

My daily studying is sort of disorganized (I study, watch tv, waste time online, repeat, and repeat, like most people, I'm sure), but I would guess that I study for 6+ hours a day except on days with really heavy class loads.


Thanks! 6+ hours including or excluding class? (I'm guessing excluding, but wanted to be sure). Also, any advice for 0L's for the summer before 1L?

Thanks again!


Excluding class, television, etc.

0L advice, let's see. My 0L summer, I was supposed to do a big internship but dropped it at the last minute (which I still feel bad about, haha) so that I could get some much-needed breathing time in before law school. I would suggest just chilling first and foremost. The 2 books I read are sort of cheesy but great reads, in my opinion, just because they help prepare you a bit for what law school will be like, although in totally different ways. They were Getting to Maybe and One L. Once I got to law school, I was so glad that I'd taken some introductory ec courses in undergrad, so I might recommend skimming through some of those materials if you haven't taken the courses or need a refresher.


Awesome. What are ec courses?? (sorry I'm not great on the lingo haha). Thanks again dude (I think your a dude..), it's awesome that you're helping us all out!

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:43 am

Economics. Sorry!

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gus
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby gus » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:45 am

ogresarelikeonions wrote:
gus wrote:curious: covington or wc?


Haha i won't give out more info than this, but neither. One of those firms I declined a callback to after getting an offer I knew I would rather accept, and the other I declined an offer from. It was a tough decision.


follow up: did you pick another large firm/office (gdc, wilmerhale, skadden) or something more boutique-ish (jenner et al)?

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:47 am

gus wrote:
ogresarelikeonions wrote:
gus wrote:curious: covington or wc?


Haha i won't give out more info than this, but neither. One of those firms I declined a callback to after getting an offer I knew I would rather accept, and the other I declined an offer from. It was a tough decision.


follow up: did you pick another large firm/office (gdc, wilmerhale, skadden) or something more boutique-ish (jenner et al)?


Large firm. I was heavily considering one boutique but was ultimately too risk-averse, not knowing anyone else who was going to a boutique for 2L summer, whether I would suffer from not getting broad-based training up front, etc.

lakerfanimal
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:02 am

Wow I didn't think econ mattered that much (all the law dean interviews say oh econ isn't super important etc), but that's awesome (econ major here haha).

DId you have very high numbers for the school you are at (above both 75'ths for GPA and LSAT) or sort of in the middle?

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:06 am

lakerfanimal wrote:Wow I didn't think econ mattered that much (all the law dean interviews say oh econ isn't super important etc), but that's awesome (econ major here haha).

DId you have very high numbers for the school you are at (above both 75'ths for GPA and LSAT) or sort of in the middle?


I found that it mattered a decent amount in Torts, Contracts, and Property, as well as in an elective I took last semester (where I wasn't really expecting it to be such a major focus). That could depend a lot on the school or profs (probably especially the profs), though.

I definitely did not have high #s. One was pretty far below the median (maybe around 25% without looking it up?), and the other was just above it. I had a tough time cracking the T-14 in the first place (though ultimately got into 2 T-14s--one T10 and one lower), so I was definitely not expecting to do that well. I think the law and I just clicked.

ogresarelikeonions
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Re: Top 5 2L at T14 Taking Questions

Postby ogresarelikeonions » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:18 am

Alright, off to bed! Will check again in the morning. Thanks for keeping me up : )




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