Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

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huck
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Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby huck » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:58 pm

-1L after one semester
-Upper T2 Regional southern state school
-$10K/year tuition after scholarship.
-Top 1/2 - top 1/3 of class
-Fiancee has been offered a tenure track job in Portland, OR. Huge opportunity, she can't pass up.
-I have no ties in Portland, there are literally no graduates of my school practicing in OR.

It is far more difficult for her to find a job than it is for me and she has been working toward this for about 17x longer than I have been working at law school.

I enjoy law school but I am concerned about my options on the other side of the country. In looking into this I have also become panicked about job prospects for lawyers generally. It seems every other month another major news outlet (Economist, WSJ, NYT, etc.) comes out with another article on the dismal prospects for law students and their tragic debt loads. This makes me extra cry.

Options:
Transfer- L&C is a similarly ranked school in Portland that obviously places better out there. However, tuition is at least three times what I'm paying now. I know there are plenty of people who suck this up but I'm terrified of that kind of debt considering I still wouldn't have any connections in the area like I do where I am now and the thought of crumbling law careers generally. Plus they might not let me in.

Withdraw- There is no shortage of blogs and websites (JDU, ATL, Esqnever, etc.) screaming that the investment in law school is not worth it and if you're not at a top x school or in the top y% of your class you'll end up in a basement doing contracted document review. For the record, I take this kind of hysteria with a grain of salt. However, there are just a ton of these voices out there counseling law students to turn back and I don't really see that kind of vitriol for other types of graduate schools. It seems like the law employment world is composed of the have nots (unemployed or barely employed), the haves (stably employed) and the have lots (Biglaw) hard to tell what the breakdown is. I'm worried about slipping into that first category in trying to move out of my school's region. I won't go into my other career prospects here. I will say my undergraduate degree is neither prestigious nor practical (no engineering). I would be in the same position as most coming out of college.

Stay- I could stick it out the next 2 years. This involves being away from my fiancee for those two years which is not something we were unprepared for. We didn't wait to see where she landed because she has been on the market for three years now and we didn't know when she would get her opportunity. Still, I'm not too thrilled with spending the next 2 years away from her and honestly if there's a time to bail, it's now when not all of my chips are in the pot. However, I want to stay if it means my debt is minimal and I am employable in Portland, OR by the end.

What do?

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savagedm
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby savagedm » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:37 pm

Transfer.

bogart
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby bogart » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:48 pm

Transfer. Consider yourself lucky that this opportunity came up during your 1L year when you can still transfer. Good luck.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:10 pm

Try to get a summer placement in Portland, Oregon. Also consider contacting Lewis & Clark to inquire about your options there.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:58 pm

Contact L&C. How about U of Oregon?

I would also look for 1L placement there.

The other risk you may take is if you think youre gonna rock the second semester (never a sure bet at all obviously) you may consider graduating from your own school while getting 2L summer work in portland because of your grades and getting an offer there. This is tough to do, but obviously an option.

ogurty
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby ogurty » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:13 pm

If transferring is not an option for whatever reason, you seem like a great candidate to be a visiting student at L&C. I don't know how it works, but maybe you could even do it for 2 years.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:18 pm

I think try a transfer to L & C is TCR, unless you feel that law really isn't right for you for other reasons. Good point someone made about maybe going on visiting status if for some reason the transfer doesn't work, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:44 pm

ogurty wrote:If transferring is not an option for whatever reason, you seem like a great candidate to be a visiting student at L&C. I don't know how it works, but maybe you could even do it for 2 years.


You need to be at your degree granting school for 2 years.

09042014
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:01 pm

How do you already have grades?

State school for 10K/year isn't bad. L&C is 35K/year.

You really need to minimize your debt because your employment options aren't good from either school. Though definitely speed your Summer in Portland instead of in the south and start networking in Portland.

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A'nold
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby A'nold » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:01 am

It seems as though YOU should drop out. I don't see you being all in in this ls thing and it looks like you are just spinning your wheels. If you actually seemed like you want to be a lawyer, I'd say stick it out and know that you will have a good dual income and can easily afford to take a 45-60k PNW job and that you can take your sweet time finding such position when you move to be with your fiance.

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mpj_3050
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby mpj_3050 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:25 am

Well that is great that your fiancee was able to secure a good job. Hopefully you can make a transfer adjustment but L&C is crazy expensive. On the other hand, current school is much cheaper but no way will it mean anything in Portland. A tough call on this one: transfer, stay, or drop out - I feel for you.

As for the scam bloggers, I actually know a few people (3) who are my age but went to law school before me and now write about law school. Overriding theme:

1: unrealistic - your ass isn't making anywhere near six figures at the caliber of schools these people attended. One passed up good money at a state T2 because "Brooklyn's is ranked higher in USNWR." Think 40k starting which is pretty decent with 40k in debt but they all have 100k plus from a private lender. These people I know who graduated, and a few in school, all assume that like 75-90k starting is the norm for people who don't get biglaw. They took on huge debt, often from private lenders, believing they would make the top of the class and get highly paid.

2: OCI - the 3 I know, as well as a few in school, all assume something will come about from OCI. They didn't take the bar when they graduated because they assumed an offer would be in hand when they got the diploma. I mean, don't you have to actually pass the bar before being considered for most shit? I know some get offers before this, but they couldn't even apply for government positions. They just gave up when they graduated without a job offer. I think the kid from Third Tier Reality did this after graduating from Drake - didn't even sit for the bar.

3: Not thinking about the area - John Marshall Chicago and Brookyln are 2 of the schools the people I know graduated from. Guess what? Expensive as shit tuition/COL and located in areas that have the most legal jobs but crazy ass competition. A lot of the scam bloggers and JDU people seem to be out of the eastern corridor or other hyper-competitive markets.

I hope everything works out for you.

huck
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby huck » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:45 am

Transferring does sound like a simple and magical fix with one giant downside: a brand new extra $50K of debt. The Portland market isn't the easiest either, but that probably goes for non-legal employment also.

I've looked into the visiting student thing a bit. It is for 3Ls only. If anyone has done it I'd love to know how it works. Like transferring? Do you need to be accepted? Who's tuition do you pay?

Not sure how to network from this far away.

Just re-read original post. I really don't sound enthusiastic. I think JDU is getting the better of me.

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A'nold
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby A'nold » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:16 pm

huck wrote:Transferring does sound like a simple and magical fix with one giant downside: a brand new extra $50K of debt. The Portland market isn't the easiest either, but that probably goes for non-legal employment also.

I've looked into the visiting student thing a bit. It is for 3Ls only. If anyone has done it I'd love to know how it works. Like transferring? Do you need to be accepted? Who's tuition do you pay?

Not sure how to network from this far away.

Just re-read original post. I really don't sound enthusiastic. I think JDU is getting the better of me.


The first step on your way to reality is to stop looking at JDU. :wink:

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Veyron
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby Veyron » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:31 pm

A'nold wrote:
huck wrote:Transferring does sound like a simple and magical fix with one giant downside: a brand new extra $50K of debt. The Portland market isn't the easiest either, but that probably goes for non-legal employment also.

I've looked into the visiting student thing a bit. It is for 3Ls only. If anyone has done it I'd love to know how it works. Like transferring? Do you need to be accepted? Who's tuition do you pay?

Not sure how to network from this far away.

Just re-read original post. I really don't sound enthusiastic. I think JDU is getting the better of me.


The first step on your way to reality is to stop start looking at JDU. :wink:


Drop out, a 45k a year job would be a dream for someone in your position. At L and C you will have over 100k in debt. That means that your take home will be about 32 after taxes (which are taken out pre-loan) and loan payments IF you get a job. OTOH, you married up to a girl with lifetime income security (if tenure) and 6 figures. I think its time to give into feminism and become a house husband.

BlazedBillyMaze
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby BlazedBillyMaze » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:51 pm

I would go to Eugene (UO) over Lewis and Clark any day. Both are hemorrhaging with hippies, but at least Oregon is cheaper. 30k is not bad for out of state tuition and you are only a couple of hours away from Portland. Having said all of this: If you care about your future outside of your lady, stay put. Between tuition and cost of living, you are looking at 100k + debt (the 20k you probably picked up this year and the 40k of tuition and COL you will pick up for each year at UO)

blackdragons
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby blackdragons » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:22 am

L&C 1L here. From what I can hear from upperclassman, if you wish for the pubic interest or the clerkship within Portland, transfer. However, even this is the best school in OR, private sector job is not guarantee. Just keep that in mind when you make your decision. (The total expense here is around $53k per year)

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20160810
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:28 pm

I probably should know the answer to this question, but can you just drop out and reapply next year?

solidsnake
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby solidsnake » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:38 pm

if the choice is between staying at a second-tier law school or transferring to another second-tier law school, then drop out. Unless you just really love plaintiff's slip-and-fall work.

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northwood
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Re: Regional T2 dropout/withdraw/transfer?

Postby northwood » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:51 pm

call Land C and talk to them over the phone ( or in person if possible) to discuss your situtation. See what advice they give you, and check out other nearby schools in the region. Also start looking into consequences of taking a year off- for residency reasons. You need to think about debt management. Try to get some summer work in the region asap. You may have to stay at your school for another yera and a half and be a visiting student for 3L. Its going to be tough, but this may have to be a possible option for you.

If you were to drop out, can you apply to Land C? talk to them about this option, as well as other ways to get you from your current school to theirs. See what your options are asap, then do whatever you can to make a positive decision for you and your fiance. You may have to put law school on hold, work at a job for a year or 2, and re apply again in another cycle. best of luck




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