publishing as a law student

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didi
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publishing as a law student

Postby didi » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:13 am

how hard is it to get published in a T14 secondary journal as a student if you do not go to that particular T14? suppose you (1) go to another T14? (2) go to a T25?


some of thse journals say they accept student essays. Do they really publish students' works?

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megaTTTron
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby megaTTTron » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:19 am

which t14 schools have secondaries that accept student submissions from students at other schools?

didi
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby didi » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:22 am

I went to some T14 secondary journal websites that do not expressly state that they do not accept submissions from students.
e.g. Harvard J of Gender and Law, Mich J of Gender and Law, Columbia J of Law and ARts

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megaTTTron
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby megaTTTron » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:26 am

didi wrote:I went to some T14 secondary journal websites that do not expressly state that they do not accept submissions from students.
e.g. Harvard J of Gender and Law, Mich J of Gender and Law, Columbia J of Law and ARts


Hmm. I'd be wary of this. Almost universally they don't accept student submissions (I've looked as well). Which means, you might need to co-author the piece with a prof/ graduate. Let us know if you affirmatively find out whether you can submit as a student. That would be great if you could.

Renzo
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Renzo » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:34 am

Very, very, very difficult. Bordering impossible. That's one of the reasons people join secondary journals--to have a shot a publishing a note. You can do it outside of that process, but you better some kinda goddamn genius.

didi
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby didi » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:41 am

how come people on xoxo say that it's easy to publish in T14 journals and publishing it will not be of use to one's resume (I think the latter is probably true but I just doubt that it is easy to publish at all.)

didi
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby didi » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:48 am

by the way, I just read an article in UCLA entertaiment law journal, written by some JD candidate at connecticut school of law. that dude was a summer associate at skadden, though. maybe this is what you meant by "genius".

twistedwrister
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby twistedwrister » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:46 am

I'm a 3L at NYU and have published two pieces in other schools' secondary journals. It's tough because (1) many journals don't accept submissions from students at other law schools, and (2) those that do are still biased against publishing student work. If you want to have a shot, write an interesting paper, have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.

edit: I don't think publishing as a student helps for getting Biglaw, but it helps for clerkships (and probably academia down the line). Most of the judges with whom I interviewed asked about my publications.

didi
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby didi » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:05 pm

did you publish in other T14 journals? or some highly regarded non-T14 journals?
congrats!

twistedwrister
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby twistedwrister » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:14 pm

didi wrote:did you publish in other T14 journals? or some highly regarded non-T14 journals?
congrats!


Thanks! One T14 and one non-T14, both secondary journals that focus on the subject matter of my papers. Honestly, T14 v. non-T14 isn't a great way to think about secondary journals. Some lower ranked schools publish highly regarded secondary journals, depending on the subject matter in question. Check out http://lawlib.wlu.edu/lj/.

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megaTTTron
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby megaTTTron » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:23 pm

twistedwrister wrote:I'm a 3L at NYU and have published two pieces in other schools' secondary journals. It's tough because (1) many journals don't accept submissions from students at other law schools, and (2) those that do are still biased against publishing student work. If you want to have a shot, write an interesting paper, have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.

edit: I don't think publishing as a student helps for getting Biglaw, but it helps for clerkships (and probably academia down the line). Most of the judges with whom I interviewed asked about my publications.


Wow. Good shit. Thanks for the info.

spondee
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby spondee » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:24 pm

That's really great - congrats!

How did you go about writing those papers? Did you write them for classes first? Did you have to think about preemption and all that while you were writing?

twistedwrister
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby twistedwrister » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:26 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:I'm a 3L at NYU and have published two pieces in other schools' secondary journals. It's tough because (1) many journals don't accept submissions from students at other law schools, and (2) those that do are still biased against publishing student work. If you want to have a shot, write an interesting paper, have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.

edit: I don't think publishing as a student helps for getting Biglaw, but it helps for clerkships (and probably academia down the line). Most of the judges with whom I interviewed asked about my publications.


Wow. Good shit. Thanks for the info.


No problem. Glad to help out.

twistedwrister
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby twistedwrister » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:33 pm

spondee wrote:That's really great - congrats!

How did you go about writing those papers? Did you write them for classes first? Did you have to think about preemption and all that while you were writing?


Yes, I wrote both papers for seminars my 2L year. I then asked a few profs for their comments/suggestions, incorporated those suggestions, formatted the articles nicely, wrote abstracts and cover letters, and submitted through Expresso. I didn't care about preemption. I know most students who publish "notes" in their own journals worry about this because their journals won't publish a preempted piece. Since I wasn't publishing in an NYU journal, I figured the editors at the other journals would do the legwork to determine if they wanted to publish what I wrote.

Renzo
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Renzo » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:51 pm

twistedwrister wrote:I'm a 3L at NYU and have published two pieces in other schools' secondary journals. It's tough because (1) many journals don't accept submissions from students at other law schools, and (2) those that do are still biased against publishing student work. If you want to have a shot, write an interesting paper, have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.

edit: I don't think publishing as a student helps for getting Biglaw, but it helps for clerkships (and probably academia down the line). Most of the judges with whom I interviewed asked about my publications.

QF being the kind of genius I was talking about.

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BriaTharen
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby BriaTharen » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:00 pm

didi wrote:how come people on xoxo say that it's easy to publish in T14 journals and publishing it will not be of use to one's resume (I think the latter is probably true but I just doubt that it is easy to publish at all.)

Because half the people on xoxo are idiots.

didi
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby didi » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:11 am

it seems that those who did manage to publish in top specialty journals are COA clerks or clerks-to-be... the brightest ones.

Danteshek
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Danteshek » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:01 am

Hi
Sorry to revive this thread. Good info. Perhaps we can work on building a list of journals that has published outside student work? I just had my piece accepted by a secondary journal at a low T1. Would be happy to share more if others are forthcoming with the information the have.
Thanks

Younger Abstention
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Younger Abstention » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:01 pm

twisted wrister, you said that you didn't care about preemption. What is the difference between a preempted piece and a plagiarized one? Sorry, I'm new with this.

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Paichka
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Paichka » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:25 pm

Younger Abstention wrote:twisted wrister, you said that you didn't care about preemption. What is the difference between a preempted piece and a plagiarized one? Sorry, I'm new with this.


Pretty significant, actually. A plagiarized piece is one where you lift, without attribution, the work or ideas of another author. A preempted piece is one that's either made moot by subsequent cases or legislation, or where another author came up with an identical proposal/solution and managed to publish before you did. You can write a preempted piece without plagiarizing, and you can write a plagiarized piece without being preempted by the author you plagiarized.

So, for example, let's say that I have a great idea for a paper -- I want to write about how military deployments impact child custody determinations, and propose that Congress use its taxing & spending power to "encourage" states to pass a uniform act which would govern child custody determinations in such situations (this was actually my original note topic idea). Let's say that right before publication, I find out that a new article has just been published in another journal which proposes the exact solution that I did. Sucks to be me, but I'm now preempted. I haven't plagiarized, because I haven't used her words or ideas, but my journal would decide not to publish me because I'm not contributing to legal scholarship in any meaningful way.

For another example, let's say that I'm writing about the collection of fingerprints at Terry stops, and I'm proposing a new standard for when those fingerprints should be stored in CODIS and when they should be purged. In my background section, I include wholesale passages taken from another article about fingerprinting, which proposes an entirely different solution (say, requiring probable cause before you can collect fingerprints). I'm not preempted, because my solution is different from the solution proposed in that article -- but I HAVE plagiarized, because I've used that author's words as my own without attribution.

Danteshek
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Danteshek » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:22 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Most journals post this info (whether they take student submissions) on ExpressO. There's a page on there--I forget exactly where--that usually states (1) whether the journal is accepting submissions right now and (2) whether student-written content will be considered.

As far as I can tell, the general trend is for most secondary journals and several lower-ranked flagship LRs to accept student-written material. Some of the very best secondary journals depart from this rule, as do a few journals that have adopted peer-review(ish) setups.

For those reasons, I do not think it would be profitable to compile a list here.


Thanks. But isn't it kind of a pain to click through to every journal in Expresso to see if they accept student work? I didn't even use Expresso for my submission. I just found the most relevant secondary journals and submitted by email (10 or so).

laborday
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby laborday » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:24 pm

twistedwrister wrote:have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.


Thanks for sharing. After the profs read and critique, do you add them as co-authors? Or you just thank them in your footnote? Basically, what is the difference to have big-time profs read and critique it?

Danteshek
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Danteshek » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:27 pm

laborday wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.


Thanks for sharing. After the profs read and critique, do you add them as co-authors? Or you just thank them in your footnote? Basically, what is the difference to have big-time profs read and critique it?


In my experience, the professor should only rarely suggest rewrites in writing. Conversations are fair game, however. Better to reach an agreement before any help is rendered as to whether or not the professor is a co-writer or simply an advisor you can thank in your footnote.

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A'nold
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby A'nold » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:55 pm

Danteshek wrote:
laborday wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.


Thanks for sharing. After the profs read and critique, do you add them as co-authors? Or you just thank them in your footnote? Basically, what is the difference to have big-time profs read and critique it?


In my experience, the professor should only rarely suggest rewrites in writing. Conversations are fair game, however. Better to reach an agreement before any help is rendered as to whether or not the professor is a co-writer or simply an advisor you can thank in your footnote.

This is something I am very interested in. How do you go about asking the Prof. for his/her preference in this regard? I don't want be sound ungrateful or rude......

Danteshek
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Re: publishing as a law student

Postby Danteshek » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:42 pm

A'nold wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
laborday wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:have a couple of big-time profs read and critique it, make the appropriate changes, and submit it broadly through Expresso. HTH.


Thanks for sharing. After the profs read and critique, do you add them as co-authors? Or you just thank them in your footnote? Basically, what is the difference to have big-time profs read and critique it?


In my experience, the professor should only rarely suggest rewrites in writing. Conversations are fair game, however. Better to reach an agreement before any help is rendered as to whether or not the professor is a co-writer or simply an advisor you can thank in your footnote.

This is something I am very interested in. How do you go about asking the Prof. for his/her preference in this regard? I don't want be sound ungrateful or rude......


Honesty is the best policy. If you are getting the professor's help in the context of writing a Note for your journal, it is understood that the professor is working in an advisory capacity only. If the professor does a very good job advising you, and that professor does not have tenure, I would suggest sending an email to the appropriate faculty member so that your thoughts can be included in that professors tenure review file.




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