Patent Bar Exam Prep

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goldeneagle
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Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby goldeneagle » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:18 pm

I've applied to LS, and plan on starting next fall. I just graduated from UG and I've got a job to make some $$$... also thinking of taking the patent bar. I want to keep "sharp" mentally over the next 8 months, and would like to get the patent bar exam out of the way!

I'm an engineering undergrad and know I want to do IP/patent law after LS.

What preparation materials are recommended? What works for people who've studied (and passed)?!

Thanks.

BeautifulSW
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby BeautifulSW » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:20 am

There will be a lot of criticism for my even asking this question, but...

Are you so sure you even NEED a law degree to do what you want to do? Are you even sure you want to do patent?

You might want to pass the patent bar (BAR/BRI offers a prep course; how good it is I couldn't say) and put off law school for a few years. A patent agent has the unusual opportunity to sample the patent part of the IP business before sinking $150,000 into J.D. tuition (not to mention the engineer's salary you will forego unless you go part-time). Believe me, law schools aren't going anywhere. You'll be just as competitive an applicant in a couple of years as you are now.

Black-Blue
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:36 pm

Due to the overflow of patent attorneys, patent agent jobs are nearly impossible to find these days unless you have a PhD, or extensive USPTO/Patent experience. Absent a unique background, there is no reason to hire a patent agent, when there are armies of JDs with engineering degrees applying to open positions.

thegor1987
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby thegor1987 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:47 am

Post back if you pass, let us know how you studied

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:20 am

Black-Blue wrote:Due to the overflow of patent attorneys, patent agent jobs are nearly impossible to find these days unless you have a PhD, or extensive USPTO/Patent experience. Absent a unique background, there is no reason to hire a patent agent, when there are armies of JDs with engineering degrees applying to open positions.


LOL. Sage advice, dooder!

OP, your ability to land a firm job will depend upon the following factors: 1) what your UG was, 2) whether you've taken the patent bar, 3) where you go to LS, 4) how well you do 1L, and 5) whether you're a good interviewer. The poaster above couldn't be more wrong with his/her assumptions. I took the patent bar before LS, don't go to a top school, and got a bunch of biglaw offers during OCI this past fall. PM me for details on my cycle, but I'll give you the patent bar advice here. FWIW, having taken the patent bar was a godsend during OCI this year.

I used the PLI materials, but you need not go and spend $$$ on prep materials. Search the internet for sites that link to practice exams, look for forums where people talk about the exam (intelproplaw.com), etc... The keys to the exam are memorizing past questions and being able to search for information in the MPEP quickly and efficiently. It shouldn't take you more than a month or two of casual studying to pass it, so long as you study smart. Also, search the TLS forums, because I think there are a few good threads on this issue. Again, PM me for my strategy for LS and my OCI cycle (as well as general information and insights about lots of other people's OCI cycles this year). I think it's important to get a holistic picture of the process, but I'm not going to poast the details here.

Again, don't take the doods advice above for it's face value. Sure, the legal market is over-saturated, too many people are going to LS, and the reaslistic possibility of making biglaw (in general) is pretty slim. HOWEVER, if you're expectations are tempered, you've got good credentials, and you maintain a positive outlook, then you might just have an easier shot at biglaw than most non-IP folks.

HTH and GL!

goldeneagle
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby goldeneagle » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:49 pm

PM'ed you Big Shrimping...

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theZeigs
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby theZeigs » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:14 am

Black-Blue wrote:Due to the overflow of patent attorneys, patent agent jobs are nearly impossible to find these days unless you have a PhD, or extensive USPTO/Patent experience. Absent a unique background, there is no reason to hire a patent agent, when there are armies of JDs with engineering degrees applying to open positions.


TITCR. Basically all the patent jobs have gone to India and China, along with most legal work; firms know they can hire people for 40K per year to crank out 90% of the work that needs to get done and only keep a few of the best people in house for the last 10% (of course, you're welcome to move to either of these places to get paid that 40K, which admittedly goes further in those countries). Generally, you want to be coming out of a very good UG (read: not a state school unless it's Cal, Michigan, or UVA), need dual graduate degrees (PhD/MS, MD/MS, etc., and one of the degrees should be in EE, god help you if you have a ME/chemistry/biology/physics degree), then graduate top 10% from a T6 school (they don't recruit anything lower than Penn) to get an entry level position in most biglaw firms. I've heard the pay is decent (like 80K?) for entry level positions, usually you work 80ish hours a week and are expected to bill 2400 hours a year, cranking out patents while partners make the deals. After doing this for a few years, they know you're useful and let you stay, otherwise they replace you with another bright-eyed kid (who is 29 or 30 years old after getting two graduate degrees) from HYS who is ready to be a shark. In the past, with 5 years of experience and all the degrees, often you can find a GS 5 level position at the USPTO, but nowadays you're about 50/50 to get one of those jobs, so often the best choice is to get back into biotech with the hope that we don't farm out all of that work to India and China in the next 5-10 years as well.

Also, don't forget that the patent bar is going to be a "moving target" and no longer easily passable ( see: --LinkRemoved-- ) so unlike before, the patent bar isn't going to just require
Big Shrimpin wrote: a month or two of casual studying to pass
... you need to be constantly following the day to day policies of the USPTO and keeping track of all the in-house memos and cases that affect their paradigms going forward. Essentially, even memorizing the MPEP will be worthless because it is all rendered obsolete because of the new policies in place from Kappos et. al. to "revamp" the USPTO and bring it up to speed. Bilsky and KSR are going to look like a cakewalk once they go to a "file first" system which will convolute the MPEP and make the entire process self contradictory, which I heard is happening at the end of the summer.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:04 pm

theZeigs wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:Due to the overflow of patent attorneys, patent agent jobs are nearly impossible to find these days unless you have a PhD, or extensive USPTO/Patent experience. Absent a unique background, there is no reason to hire a patent agent, when there are armies of JDs with engineering degrees applying to open positions.


TITCR. Basically all the patent jobs have gone to India and China, along with most legal work; firms know they can hire people for 40K per year to crank out 90% of the work that needs to get done and only keep a few of the best people in house for the last 10% (of course, you're welcome to move to either of these places to get paid that 40K, which admittedly goes further in those countries). Generally, you want to be coming out of a very good UG (read: not a state school unless it's Cal, Michigan, or UVA), need dual graduate degrees (PhD/MS, MD/MS, etc., and one of the degrees should be in EE, god help you if you have a ME/chemistry/biology/physics degree), then graduate top 10% from a T6 school (they don't recruit anything lower than Penn) to get an entry level position in most biglaw firms. I've heard the pay is decent (like 80K?) for entry level positions, usually you work 80ish hours a week and are expected to bill 2400 hours a year, cranking out patents while partners make the deals. After doing this for a few years, they know you're useful and let you stay, otherwise they replace you with another bright-eyed kid (who is 29 or 30 years old after getting two graduate degrees) from HYS who is ready to be a shark. In the past, with 5 years of experience and all the degrees, often you can find a GS 5 level position at the USPTO, but nowadays you're about 50/50 to get one of those jobs, so often the best choice is to get back into biotech with the hope that we don't farm out all of that work to India and China in the next 5-10 years as well.

Also, don't forget that the patent bar is going to be a "moving target" and no longer easily passable ( see: --LinkRemoved-- ) so unlike before, the patent bar isn't going to just require
Big Shrimpin wrote: a month or two of casual studying to pass
... you need to be constantly following the day to day you need to read-up on KSR and Bilski as they pertain to obviousness and patentable subject matter...as well as the EFS policies of the USPTO and keeping track of all the in-house memos and cases that affect their paradigms going forward. Essentially, even memorizing the MPEP will be worthless because it is all rendered obsolete because of the new policies in place from Kappos et. al. to "revamp" the USPTO and bring it up to speed CORRECTION: memorizing the MPEP was NEVER TCR. Bilsky and KSR are going to look like a cakewalk once they go to a "file first" system which will convolute the MPEP and make the entire process self contradictory, which I heard is happening at the end of the summer.


Clearly, you're an 0L. I have a few points to make, as your post here is dreadfully misinforming for future readers. In case you hadn't realized, this is a forum for current law school students. When 0Ls come into this forum (as well as the employment forum, which REALLY pisses me off) and gunk-up threads with nonsensical, unsubstantiated CRAP, TLS is thereby deprived of any potential utility for future readers. So, to begin...


First, I'll start with the ONLY nugget of useful information in the previous post. The only non-stricken line written by theZeigs about the new exam is important to note, as I did forget earlier to put a caveat about the upcoming test change. If I had to guess, I'll bet the exam will remain largely the same as previous exams. The caveat, however, will be on questions that test patentable subject matter (101) and non-obviousness (103). Bilski is STILL working its way through the system, and because SCOTUS really only gave a whole mess of vague guidelines, much of the law remains unsettled (check PTO interim guidelines, however, which may be tested on the exam). KSR, on the other hand, is more established and (I believe) has been written-into PTO procedures (I have tons of classes with examiners, and for the most part, the preceding two sentences are a basic summary of how those cases have affected PTO procedure...which is tested on the exam). I am not familiar with the EFS, but that information should be readily available on the PTO website. If you don't know how to navigate that website, take a day and learn. It contains TONS of useful information.

Second, I'll clarify my second bolded comment in theZeig's final paragraph, as well as all the other crap he/she thrust in there. Memorizing the MPEP was NEVER TCR for preparing for the exam. One would have to be particularly thick-skulled to think that such a study method would yield useful results. Unless you have an exact photographic memory with instant-recall, that method would be stupid. You're tested on like 20% of the entirety of the MPEPs contents, lol. TCR is to study past questions (with caveats for the 101/103 and supplementing with interim PTO guidelines as well as new rules on EFS, etc...) and become REALLY adept at searching the pdf-version of the MPEP.

". . . keeping track of all the in-house memos and cases that affect their paradigms going forward." This made me lol pretty hard. Unless you're attempting to become an expert in the area of PTO policy on patentable subject matter and nonobviousness, then keeping track of daily memos/cases is probably going to be a ridiculous waste of time. TCR here would be to read the PTOs interim guidelines on both cases and/or promulgated rules that will be/have been added to the MPEP recently. It would probably be a stretch to even recommend a test-taker to read KSR and Bilski. Not only will they probably confuse you (especially Bilski), but each case largely contains so much non-applicable information that reading both would likely be a time-sink. The PTO "sort of" case about what SCOTUS thinks about 101/103, but rules/guidelines that the PTO ultimately implements are not necessarily the "same" thing that SCOTUS said in either case. In fact, the reason these cases come up in the first place is often because SCOTUS told the PTO to do something, the PTO "sort of" implemented a change, another case came up highlighting something else, SCOTUS told them to change things, etc...this is patent law jurisprudence.

Bottom line, just know what the PTO did after/in response to each case. No need to "continually follow" developments, UNLESS something really big happens (which I doubt it will in the near future). Now, onto the good stuff...

::cracks knuckles::

Finally, the first paragraph is not only extremely misleading, but quite misinformed. To be sure, I understand that theZeigs was responding to a poster asking about patent agent jobs. Therefore, I'm prefacing this explanation with the caveat that the following applies to biglaw jobs. I believe this criticism will be credited, however, because theZeigs does not stop at giving advice about being a patent agent, but rather expands his/her advice to biglaw gigs in general. So hopefully, I clear things up not only for future readers, but for theZeigs as well.

Almost nobody coming out of law school and going into a biglaw firm is going to be a patent agent. Since you have the law degree, you're technically a patent attorney and could be doing litigation, prosecution (similar roles as patent agents), or transactional practice (probably not until you're more senior). Sure, non-law jobs (as well as some law-related jobs) like patent agents are going offshore. In the scope of our ever-increasing global economy, this is kind of a foregone conclusion.

The distinction, however, is that biglaw associate jobs have not followed suit. Moreover, where you're particularly wrong, biglaw patent gigs do NOT require one to graduate from a TOP UG with a dual degree PhD/EE/whatever the fck kind of nonsense the previous poster said, ONLY to be followed by top 10% from a T6 school. My favorite part was when line about howd biglaw firms don't hire biglaw patent associates out of non-T6 schools. On the contrary, one can get an excellent biglaw gig with non-top UG/LS credentials. To be sure, however, an applicant's credentials cannot be sub-3.0 UG engineer at at TTT LS with medianish grades. I have it on good authority that PLENTY of students with 3.0ish gpas in UG from non-top UG schools, followed by a wide variety of LS, may be competitive for those jobs (the higher in your LS class, the better your chances across the board in LS...while there is often a direct relationship between biglaw hiring rate and rank of school, doing REALLY well in 1L puts a TT student competitive for some biglaw patent gigs, especially if that student has a good UG or WE...conversely, a T20 student in the top quarter with a non-in-demand UG degree with median gpa is also competitive, etc...). Since I'm a 2L who has gone through OCI, and not an 0L who knows virtually nothing about biglaw hiring, I would highly recommend that future readers disregard 0L posters who proclaim, unequivocally and absolutely, that unless your resume is guilded with stellar accomplishments, you should go ahead and forget about a biglaw patent gig. While it ALWAYS helps to have those resume bullet points, they are by no means a dispositive factor in biglaw hiring.

Biglaw associates making 80K, working a constant 80 hours a week, billing 2400 hours, WTF? GTFO with these numbers dude. I'm not even going to touch this one. Your metrics are all over the board.

Protip:

Prospective students need to look at credentials and biglaw hiring trends in a continuum and against the backdrop of a broader economy. I've said this sht countless times, and I'll say it again. Tempering expectations is ALWAYS a useful endeavor for prospective biglaw candidates, however, don't price yourself out of the market (below). Biglaw patent gigs are done on a continuum of factors, none of which is dispositive (unless particularly egregious or spectacular). A great LS GPA might make up for lack of WE or school rank, great UG/GPA/WE might make up for a less-than-stellar LS GPA, etc... All we have here in TLS-land is a myriad of anecdotes, which are often unhelpful and misinforming. While I try to broaden my advice to be applicable, generally, it does always help to use anecdotes as guideposts as par for the course. Prospective students: DO YOUR FCKING RESEARCH before matriculating at a school. Researching schools/biglaw placement is not only really easy but quite possibly the best hedge against risk in going to LS. Surely, every one of us in LS took a risk coming here, but hopefully, research at least played a role in tempering our expectations so that we might be better able to mitigate our risk in matriculating.


Now I'm exhausted. /rant

HTH

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theZeigs
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby theZeigs » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:36 pm

HI-larious....I was totally being tongue in cheek. Would have thought the avatar would have given it away...

Everything I said in the first paragraph is over the top hysteria that condenses things I've read all over the net regarding the outlooks of IP law in the coming years. Unfortunately, it is the exact opposite of what used to be the truth in this field. Now, ITE, things are different, but clearly not (even nearly) as bad as I say. I was hoping it would be obvious that it was wayyy over the top. FWIW, it's true that doing patent law is better than doing law, generally, but this should be obvious...someone who has extra/specialized skills is just generally more useful/desireable that someone who does not.

I am somewhat glad that Shrimpin took it seriously, because he doles out some gems of information both re: the patent bar and biglaw. For progeny, read Shrimpin's post, it's all truth, and I was just being a typical TLS dick. It was funny to me.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:17 pm

theZeigs wrote:HI-larious....I was totally being tongue in cheek. Would have thought the avatar would have given it away...

Everything I said in the first paragraph is over the top hysteria that condenses things I've read all over the net regarding the outlooks of IP law in the coming years. Unfortunately, it is the exact opposite of what used to be the truth in this field. Now, ITE, things are different, but clearly not (even nearly) as bad as I say. I was hoping it would be obvious that it was wayyy over the top. FWIW, it's true that doing patent law is better than doing law, generally, but this should be obvious...someone who has extra/specialized skills is just generally more useful/desireable that someone who does not.

I am somewhat glad that Shrimpin took it seriously, because he doles out some gems of information both re: the patent bar and biglaw. For progeny, read Shrimpin's post, it's all truth, and I was just being a typical TLS dick. It was funny to me.



Yeah, either way, the advice works for posterity's sake. I didn't mean to be a douche, but I've gotten LOTS of PMs from prospective students with great backgrounds spazzing out that they're royally fcked w/r/t ever getting a biglaw patent gig. Admittedly, I smelled a little sarcasm in the first paragraph, but since you laced some important stuff into the latter part of the post, I erred on the side of non-assumption. It's good to know you were being sarcastic, and I apologize for coming off harsh at the beginning. Unfortunately, there are tons of 0Ls that just keep parroting the same nonsense around the legal employment/law student boards, and because I have such an inflated sense of self-worth, I find it necessary to stomp-out half-truths before they propagate. :lol:

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theZeigs
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby theZeigs » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:32 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
theZeigs wrote:HI-larious....I was totally being tongue in cheek. Would have thought the avatar would have given it away...

Everything I said in the first paragraph is over the top hysteria that condenses things I've read all over the net regarding the outlooks of IP law in the coming years. Unfortunately, it is the exact opposite of what used to be the truth in this field. Now, ITE, things are different, but clearly not (even nearly) as bad as I say. I was hoping it would be obvious that it was wayyy over the top. FWIW, it's true that doing patent law is better than doing law, generally, but this should be obvious...someone who has extra/specialized skills is just generally more useful/desireable that someone who does not.

I am somewhat glad that Shrimpin took it seriously, because he doles out some gems of information both re: the patent bar and biglaw. For progeny, read Shrimpin's post, it's all truth, and I was just being a typical TLS dick. It was funny to me.



Yeah, either way, the advice works for posterity's sake. I didn't mean to be a douche, but I've gotten LOTS of PMs from prospective students with great backgrounds spazzing out that they're royally fcked w/r/t ever getting a biglaw patent gig. Admittedly, I smelled a little sarcasm in the first paragraph, but since you laced some important stuff into the latter part of the post, I erred on the side of non-assumption. It's good to know you were being sarcastic, and I apologize for coming off harsh at the beginning. Unfortunately, there are tons of 0Ls that just keep parroting the same nonsense around the legal employment/law student boards, and because I have such an inflated sense of self-worth, I find it necessary to stomp-out half-truths before they propagate. :lol:


Ha yeah no offense taken dude, sorry that I got you all worked up over nothing. Again, what you just said (bolded) is the truth; furthermore, it's not just law message boards, but everywhere. Anything read on the net should be taken with a grain of salt, always, and I'm glad you're keeping TLS up to standards as much as possible.

You're totally right, I am a 0L, and when I talk with my 2L friend about how hard it's going to be for me to even get into LS, let alone a job, she laughs at my pessimism. Also, check your PMs

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:32 pm

If anyone wants a comprehensive overview of the patent bar, PM me.

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corvettekid
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby corvettekid » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:36 pm

I've heard you have 90 days once you receive your approval letter to take the exam. Anyone have any input on how long it took them to get their approval letter?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:13 pm

corvettekid wrote:I've heard you have 90 days once you receive your approval letter to take the exam. Anyone have any input on how long it took them to get their approval letter?


Shouldn't be more than 2 weeks or so.

Black-Blue
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:30 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:Due to the overflow of patent attorneys, patent agent jobs are nearly impossible to find these days unless you have a PhD, or extensive USPTO/Patent experience. Absent a unique background, there is no reason to hire a patent agent, when there are armies of JDs with engineering degrees applying to open positions.


LOL. Sage advice, dooder!

OP, your ability to land a firm job will depend upon the following factors: 1) what your UG was, 2) whether you've taken the patent bar, 3) where you go to LS, 4) how well you do 1L, and 5) whether you're a good interviewer. The poaster above couldn't be more wrong with his/her assumptions. I took the patent bar before LS, don't go to a top school, and got a bunch of biglaw offers during OCI this past fall. PM me for details on my cycle, but I'll give you the patent bar advice here. FWIW, having taken the patent bar was a godsend during OCI this year.

I used the PLI materials, but you need not go and spend $$$ on prep materials. Search the internet for sites that link to practice exams, look for forums where people talk about the exam (intelproplaw.com), etc... The keys to the exam are memorizing past questions and being able to search for information in the MPEP quickly and efficiently. It shouldn't take you more than a month or two of casual studying to pass it, so long as you study smart. Also, search the TLS forums, because I think there are a few good threads on this issue. Again, PM me for my strategy for LS and my OCI cycle (as well as general information and insights about lots of other people's OCI cycles this year). I think it's important to get a holistic picture of the process, but I'm not going to poast the details here.

Again, don't take the doods advice above for it's face value. Sure, the legal market is over-saturated, too many people are going to LS, and the reaslistic possibility of making biglaw (in general) is pretty slim. HOWEVER, if you're expectations are tempered, you've got good credentials, and you maintain a positive outlook, then you might just have an easier shot at biglaw than most non-IP folks.

HTH and GL!

You criticized my post without actually addressing it. There are multiple types of applicants being discussed here: (1) Patent Agent; (2) Law Student, e.g. at OCI; (3) Law Grad; (4) Law Student + Patent Agent. I did not say that the market for types 2-4 is bad. In fact, due to the recently improving economy, the job market for graduates has improved significantly since a year ago, when patent filings were down.

However, I was really only taking about (1) Patent Agent. And for this class of applicants, it is really tough to find a job unless you have a prior background in the field. Even during the boom years, patent agent (non JD, non law student) positions were reserved for people with PTO experience.

LockBox
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby LockBox » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:22 pm

First, I want to say that the responses in this thread were insightful and appreciated. BigShrimpin, I realize you have already taken the patent bar, but i'm looking to prep for it and am wondering what the changes in April entail. Should we wait for the exam to be modified before studying? Are current studying materials going to be rendered obsolete? Any info is appreciated!

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:36 pm

Black-Blue wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:Due to the overflow of patent attorneys, patent agent jobs are nearly impossible to find these days unless you have a PhD, or extensive USPTO/Patent experience. Absent a unique background, there is no reason to hire a patent agent, when there are armies of JDs with engineering degrees applying to open positions.


LOL. Sage advice, dooder!

OP, your ability to land a firm job will depend upon the following factors: 1) what your UG was, 2) whether you've taken the patent bar, 3) where you go to LS, 4) how well you do 1L, and 5) whether you're a good interviewer. The poaster above couldn't be more wrong with his/her assumptions. I took the patent bar before LS, don't go to a top school, and got a bunch of biglaw offers during OCI this past fall. PM me for details on my cycle, but I'll give you the patent bar advice here. FWIW, having taken the patent bar was a godsend during OCI this year.

I used the PLI materials, but you need not go and spend $$$ on prep materials. Search the internet for sites that link to practice exams, look for forums where people talk about the exam (intelproplaw.com), etc... The keys to the exam are memorizing past questions and being able to search for information in the MPEP quickly and efficiently. It shouldn't take you more than a month or two of casual studying to pass it, so long as you study smart. Also, search the TLS forums, because I think there are a few good threads on this issue. Again, PM me for my strategy for LS and my OCI cycle (as well as general information and insights about lots of other people's OCI cycles this year). I think it's important to get a holistic picture of the process, but I'm not going to poast the details here.

Again, don't take the doods advice above for it's face value. Sure, the legal market is over-saturated, too many people are going to LS, and the reaslistic possibility of making biglaw (in general) is pretty slim. HOWEVER, if you're expectations are tempered, you've got good credentials, and you maintain a positive outlook, then you might just have an easier shot at biglaw than most non-IP folks.

HTH and GL!

You criticized my post without actually addressing it. There are multiple types of applicants being discussed here: (1) Patent Agent; (2) Law Student, e.g. at OCI; (3) Law Grad; (4) Law Student + Patent Agent. I did not say that the market for types 2-4 is bad. In fact, due to the recently improving economy, the job market for graduates has improved significantly since a year ago, when patent filings were down.

However, I was really only taking about (1) Patent Agent. And for this class of applicants, it is really tough to find a job unless you have a prior background in the field. Even during the boom years, patent agent (non JD, non law student) positions were reserved for people with PTO experience.


Whoops. RC fail. In my defense, I was probably doing like 10 other things at the same time. As applicable to prospective law students thinking about a career in patent law, the advice is still credited. 8)

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:43 pm

LockBox wrote:First, I want to say that the responses in this thread were insightful and appreciated. BigShrimpin, I realize you have already taken the patent bar, but i'm looking to prep for it and am wondering what the changes in April entail. Should we wait for the exam to be modified before studying? Are current studying materials going to be rendered obsolete? Any info is appreciated!



Since I took the exam back in 2009, I'm really not "up to snuff" on what exactly the changes might entail. Refer to my post above, however, for my opinion about how those changes might affect the exam. I strongly doubt the materials will become largely obsolete. Patent law jurisprudence has changed, but not to such a degree that the change would effectively render the last version of the MPEP akin to fire tinder.

Unless you have nothing to do other than sit around and study, I wouldn't suggest cramming the exam in before the changes take effect. Go the the USPTO website, look at intelproplaw.com and search the forums there, or do a google search for more details. The internet is a wealth of information.

If you want a more substantive look at preparing for the exam, then refer to my other post above. I'm a busy dood, but I am in the business of giving people advice since TLS has been so helpful for me along the way. :wink:

LockBox
Posts: 269
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby LockBox » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:40 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
LockBox wrote:First, I want to say that the responses in this thread were insightful and appreciated. BigShrimpin, I realize you have already taken the patent bar, but i'm looking to prep for it and am wondering what the changes in April entail. Should we wait for the exam to be modified before studying? Are current studying materials going to be rendered obsolete? Any info is appreciated!



Since I took the exam back in 2009, I'm really not "up to snuff" on what exactly the changes might entail. Refer to my post above, however, for my opinion about how those changes might affect the exam. I strongly doubt the materials will become largely obsolete. Patent law jurisprudence has changed, but not to such a degree that the change would effectively render the last version of the MPEP akin to fire tinder.

Unless you have nothing to do other than sit around and study, I wouldn't suggest cramming the exam in before the changes take effect. Go the the USPTO website, look at intelproplaw.com and search the forums there, or do a google search for more details. The internet is a wealth of information.

If you want a more substantive look at preparing for the exam, then refer to my other post above. I'm a busy dood, but I am in the business of giving people advice since TLS has been so helpful for me along the way. :wink:


Yeah you've already been way helpful. Okay, so i guess my strategy is to just start studying for the patent bar and try to see what the upcoming changes are and adjust accordingly. Thanks again

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hipstermafia
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby hipstermafia » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:06 pm

i also found http://mypatentbar.com/ to be a great resource. They have a pretty comprehensive list of the repeat questions as well as reported newer questions/concepts.

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dood
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby dood » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:10 pm

as a registered patent agent, let me say: just memorize the old tests and try to take before major changes are implemented. otherwise u'd have to learn the shit, god forbid.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:32 pm

hipstermafia wrote:i also found http://mypatentbar.com/ to be a great resource. They have a pretty comprehensive list of the repeat questions as well as reported newer questions/concepts.



I recommend this site to people all the time--great resource.

LockBox
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Re: Patent Bar Exam Prep

Postby LockBox » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:32 pm

I searched through the USPTO website and mypatentbar but didn't find what I was looking for. Anyone know of the changes to the patent bar exam that were supposed to be effective April 2011? I'm a 0L still waiting on a seat but when/if it does come through i'd like to start prepping for this exam. Anyone have any info?




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