So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

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quakeroats
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:03 am

vamedic03 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Creativity is really important. Rote analysis is fine and all, but if you're trying to really stand out from the rest you have to be creative.


I'd have to agree. In my view, it's speed + creativity that are determinative. Everyone knows the basics. For word limited exams, add discretion and being concise.

Most people generally don't effectively apply law to facts. Do this effectively, and you're ahead of the curve. If you have time to be creative, you should really reconsider whether you effectively applied law to facts.


Que?


Having been through 1L and having done well, I can tell you that it all comes down to effectively applying law to fact. None of my exam answers were creative, but they were thorough and succinct.


What does "well" mean? We haven't actually defined creativity so perhaps:

1. You're doing what several have suggested and calling it something else
2. You'd have done even better had you been "creative"

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RVP11
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:13 am

quakeroats wrote:What does "well" mean?


Better than you.

BTW, your smug DFW tar suits you.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:18 am

vamedic03 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Creativity is really important. Rote analysis is fine and all, but if you're trying to really stand out from the rest you have to be creative.


I'd have to agree. In my view, it's speed + creativity that are determinative. Everyone knows the basics. For word limited exams, add discretion and being concise.


Most people generally don't effectively apply law to facts. Do this effectively, and you're ahead of the curve. If you have time to be creative, you should really reconsider whether you effectively applied law to facts.

Meh. I gotta disagree here. But I work and write very very fast, so perhaps that's where we diverge.

My exams are usually ~ 25-35 pages. Maybe 75% is rote analysis, just crunching through facts and applying law like everybody else is doing. The rest is applying policy, suggesting how quirks could/should be ironed out through common law development, and tweaking the hypo here and there to get some more room to argue policy points.

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Lawquacious
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:23 am

I think time comes into play in the grading quite a bit. At least one professor seemed to weight each section of the test according to how much time was allotted, such that a 30 minute section might be worth 12 points and a 45 minute section 15 points for example. Thus, even though there may be as many individual issues to spot in the 30 min section, the point limit would be less. However, I think that prof also would try to correlate more issues in a question to a longer time to address them naturally (and I'm kind of hoping that the prof wasn't strict in this approach if he or she noticed that one of the questions had more issues and depth than anticipated initially; but from what I have seen the time limit did limit the points). Of course if you had one large question stem for the entire exam this way of breaking down points available wouldn't be so relevant. From what I understand almost no one (read: no one according to what I've heard from at least one professor) hits all the issues in a given exam.

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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:25 am

[/quote]PasteurizedMilk: "My exams are usually ~ 25-35 pages."[/quote]

:shock:

I don't know exactly how long mine are, but I think nothing close to that. 4 hour exam? Single-spaced 12 pt. font? What is your WPM?
Last edited by Lawquacious on Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:29 am

Though I think my earlier response was relevant to the gen. subject of the thread, to make a more specific response re: the (a) or (b) asked about, I think (b) is usually more the case. I don't think most professors award all the points for a given section ONLY for spotting the issues. I think that makes up a lot of the points but that even on an "issue spotter" it is important to analyze and resolve the issues as much as possible rather than just pointing to them. I'm sure different profs have different approaches though.

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clintonius
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby clintonius » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:36 am

RVP11 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:What does "well" mean?

Better than you.

BTW, your smug DFW tar suits you.

Don't demean the man's memory

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quakeroats
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:38 am

Lawquacious wrote:PasteurizedMilk: "My exams are usually ~ 25-35 pages.

:shock:

I don't know exactly how long mine are, but I think nothing close to that. 4 hour exam? Single-spaced 12 pt. font? What is your WPM?


35 pages @ 600 words per page is 21,000 words, assuming single-spaced pages. I can't imagine the person who types the better part of 90 WPM for four hours, so I'd assume double-spaced pages

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:39 am

Lawquacious wrote: :shock:

I don't know exactly how long mine are, but I think nothing close to that. 4 hour exam? Single-spaced 12 pt. font? What is your WPM?


Usually 3.5 hours, double spaced 12 point. This isn't necessary for good grades - I have friends who do ~ as well as I do and type half the pages - but it works well w/ my style.

I type close to 120 wpm.

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quakeroats
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:42 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Lawquacious wrote: :shock:

I don't know exactly how long mine are, but I think nothing close to that. 4 hour exam? Single-spaced 12 pt. font? What is your WPM?


Usually 3.5 hours, double spaced 12 point. This isn't necessary for good grades - I have friends who do ~ as well as I do and type half the pages - but it works well w/ my style.

I type close to 120 wpm.


For what portion of the test are you typing 120+ wpm?

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Lawquacious
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:50 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Lawquacious wrote: :shock:

I don't know exactly how long mine are, but I think nothing close to that. 4 hour exam? Single-spaced 12 pt. font? What is your WPM?


Usually 3.5 hours, double spaced 12 point. This isn't necessary for good grades - I have friends who do ~ as well as I do and type half the pages - but it works well w/ my style.

I type close to 120 wpm.



Nice. I hope to bring up my speed for sure. I'm at about 60 as a consistent average, though I think I def get going faster than that at times. Nowhere near your speed though. Congrats.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:58 am

Lawquacious wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Lawquacious wrote: :shock:

I don't know exactly how long mine are, but I think nothing close to that. 4 hour exam? Single-spaced 12 pt. font? What is your WPM?


Usually 3.5 hours, double spaced 12 point. This isn't necessary for good grades - I have friends who do ~ as well as I do and type half the pages - but it works well w/ my style.

I type close to 120 wpm.



Nice. I hope to bring up my speed for sure. I'm at about 60 as a consistent average, though I think I def get going faster than that at times. Nowhere near your speed though. Congrats.

:lol: .....thanks?

For what portion of the test are you typing 120+ wpm?
I though you guys meant in general. For the exams I type about 40-45 wpm.

irishman86
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby irishman86 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:22 am

Speed, creativity, some have rubrics with specific points for each issue and arguments made.

uvahooo
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby uvahooo » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:36 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Creativity is really important. Rote analysis is fine and all, but if you're trying to really stand out from the rest you have to be creative.


I'd have to agree. In my view, it's speed + creativity that are determinative. Everyone knows the basics. For word limited exams, add discretion and being concise.


Most people generally don't effectively apply law to facts. Do this effectively, and you're ahead of the curve. If you have time to be creative, you should really reconsider whether you effectively applied law to facts.

Meh. I gotta disagree here. But I work and write very very fast, so perhaps that's where we diverge.

My exams are usually ~ 25-35 pages. Maybe 75% is rote analysis, just crunching through facts and applying law like everybody else is doing. The rest is applying policy, suggesting how quirks could/should be ironed out through common law development, and tweaking the hypo here and there to get some more room to argue policy points.


highly doubt this. Try again. I type about the same amount. But my exam pages were less than 25-35 pages and mine seemed to be the most typed out of the people that I have talked too.

Believe me, if you are typing that much, you are not thinking and half of your stuff will probably not make sense.

You may even annoy your grader which brings down your grade even lower. Not a really good idea....

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RVP11
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:32 pm

uvahooo wrote:highly doubt this. Try again. I type about the same amount. But my exam pages were less than 25-35 pages and mine seemed to be the most typed out of the people that I have talked too.

Believe me, if you are typing that much, you are not thinking and half of your stuff will probably not make sense.

You may even annoy your grader which brings down your grade even lower. Not a really good idea....


Umm, I think you're talking to a 2L.

I agree that talking a lot about policy rather than sticking to straight application can backfire, but if it's working for the guy then it's hard to argue.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:05 pm

uvahooo wrote:highly doubt this. Try again. I type about the same amount. But my exam pages were less than 25-35 pages and mine seemed to be the most typed out of the people that I have talked too.

Believe me, if you are typing that much, you are not thinking and half of your stuff will probably not make sense.

You may even annoy your grader which brings down your grade even lower. Not a really good idea....
Of my 7 substantive classes, I booked 4.......

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RVP11
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:26 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
uvahooo wrote:highly doubt this. Try again. I type about the same amount. But my exam pages were less than 25-35 pages and mine seemed to be the most typed out of the people that I have talked too.

Believe me, if you are typing that much, you are not thinking and half of your stuff will probably not make sense.

You may even annoy your grader which brings down your grade even lower. Not a really good idea....
Of my 7 substantive classes, I booked 4.......


pwnd

Though "booking" your class sounds TTT.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:31 pm

RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
uvahooo wrote:highly doubt this. Try again. I type about the same amount. But my exam pages were less than 25-35 pages and mine seemed to be the most typed out of the people that I have talked too.

Believe me, if you are typing that much, you are not thinking and half of your stuff will probably not make sense.

You may even annoy your grader which brings down your grade even lower. Not a really good idea....
Of my 7 substantive classes, I booked 4.......


pwnd

Though "booking" your class sounds TTT.
:lol:

some may call my LS a TTT. I like it though. She may be ugly and huge, but she's got a great personality.

1234543523

Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby 1234543523 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Pantless, pipe in mouth, wine in hand.

lawschool7777
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby lawschool7777 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:14 pm

do T14 schools not have "book awards"? Is there any award for the highest grade?

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vamedic03
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby vamedic03 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:29 pm

RVP11 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:What does "well" mean?


Better than you.

BTW, your smug DFW tar suits you.


What he said. FWIW, quakeroats, you're awfully smug for a 1L without grades.

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quakeroats
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:40 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:What does "well" mean?


Better than you.

BTW, your smug DFW tar suits you.


What he said. FWIW, quakeroats, you're awfully smug for a 1L without grades.


How is asking for clarification as I did smug?

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:36 pm

lawschool7777 wrote:do T14 schools not have "book awards"? Is there any award for the highest grade?

At my t14 it depends on the proof. Some will email and let you know you have the highest score, for other classes the registrar contacts to let you know you have a CALI.

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RVP11
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Re: So how do professors grade issue spotters anyway?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:43 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
lawschool7777 wrote:do T14 schools not have "book awards"? Is there any award for the highest grade?

At my t14 it depends on the proof. Some will email and let you know you have the highest score, for other classes the registrar contacts to let you know you have a CALI.


Which T14 sullies its non-competitive image by giving these awards?




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