questionable multiple choice..email professor?

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goosey
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questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby goosey » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:30 pm

there were a few quetsionable multiple choice questions on the exam..for ex, one said that 3 months after the plaintiff filed the case the defendant moved to remove--now, I didn't know if we can assume he filed/served notice at the same time, in which case the time to remove would be gone, or else if he didnt serve notice until the last minute, in which case the defendant could still remove [dont you have 120 days to serve notice or something after filing?]

I dont know if its appropriate to email the professor about things like that. They typically tell us to email the registrar about any issues we have with the exam so as to not compromise our anonymity.

I feel like I did well overall but cant get over some of the weirder questions that I probably got wrong b/c I just didnt get them

nyknicks
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby nyknicks » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:39 pm

Was it removable b/c of a sudden change in SMJ? If so, maybe it didn't matter and that's why he didn't specify?

corporatelaw87
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby corporatelaw87 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:45 pm

Never email the professor, it's a violation of the honor code. Either wait until your grade, or talk to student affairs.

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GeePee
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby GeePee » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:01 pm

The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.

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goosey
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby goosey » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:17 pm

GeePee wrote:The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.

Hmmm..I think I disagree with that. Firstly, a case can only be removed be a defendant within 30 days or, if the structure of the case changes than x amount of time after receiving notice of the amended pleadings, so long as its been less than a year since the case started. You can't remove whenevr

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GeePee
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby GeePee » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:54 pm

goosey wrote:
GeePee wrote:The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.

Hmmm..I think I disagree with that. Firstly, a case can only be removed be a defendant within 30 days or, if the structure of the case changes than x amount of time after receiving notice of the amended pleadings, so long as its been less than a year since the case started. You can't remove whenevr

No, a case can only be properly removed by a defendant within 30 days of filing. That's why 1447(c) exists.

Again, the state court automatically grants removal, and then the federal courts sort out the possibility of remand on the other side. "Removal" jurisdiction is really a misnomer; it really should be "remand" jurisdiction when viewed from the perspective of the federal courts.

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Unitas
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Unitas » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:34 am

GeePee wrote:
goosey wrote:
GeePee wrote:The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.

Hmmm..I think I disagree with that. Firstly, a case can only be removed be a defendant within 30 days or, if the structure of the case changes than x amount of time after receiving notice of the amended pleadings, so long as its been less than a year since the case started. You can't remove whenevr

No, a case can only be properly removed by a defendant within 30 days of filing. That's why 1447(c) exists.

Again, the state court automatically grants removal, and then the federal courts sort out the possibility of remand on the other side. "Removal" jurisdiction is really a misnomer; it really should be "remand" jurisdiction when viewed from the perspective of the federal courts.


Be right GeePee is. To throw in a wrench, you can also remove multiple times if remanded. However rule 11 prevents it without good reason. My professor showed a situation with class actions and certification that can result in an infinite loop, wish I had my notes to be more specific.

Baylan
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Baylan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:01 am

goosey wrote:there were a few quetsionable multiple choice questions on the exam..for ex, one said that 3 months after the plaintiff filed the case the defendant moved to remove--now, I didn't know if we can assume he filed/served notice at the same time, in which case the time to remove would be gone, or else if he didnt serve notice until the last minute, in which case the defendant could still remove [dont you have 120 days to serve notice or something after filing?]

I dont know if its appropriate to email the professor about things like that. They typically tell us to email the registrar about any issues we have with the exam so as to not compromise our anonymity.

I feel like I did well overall but cant get over some of the weirder questions that I probably got wrong b/c I just didnt get them


Odds are, if you couldn't find the one best answer, you didn't understand the material fully enough in order to find it.

sophie316
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby sophie316 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:05 am

Isn't this where the curve comes in handy though? If the question made no sense then surely everyone will have had the same problem, the professor will probably realise this and strike it. If enough people got it right, it probably made sense.

Baylan
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Baylan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:22 am

sophie316 wrote:Isn't this where the curve comes in handy though? If the question made no sense then surely everyone will have had the same problem, the professor will probably realise this and strike it. If enough people got it right, it probably made sense.


This is where the curve is really nice. Why would the prof need to strike it? If everyone got it wrong, its like everyone just has one less question on their exam.

It is extremely unlikely that the question is constructed so poorly that it can be answered two ways, or there is no "righter" answer. Knowing the material well helps figure it out. And if you don't understand the material fully for that particular question, odds are that you're making an educated guess.

sophie316
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby sophie316 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:27 am

Baylan wrote:
sophie316 wrote:Isn't this where the curve comes in handy though? If the question made no sense then surely everyone will have had the same problem, the professor will probably realise this and strike it. If enough people got it right, it probably made sense.


This is where the curve is really nice. Why would the prof need to strike it? If everyone got it wrong, its like everyone just has one less question on their exam.

It is extremely unlikely that the question is constructed so poorly that it can be answered two ways, or there is no "righter" answer. Knowing the material well helps figure it out. And if you don't understand the material fully for that particular question, odds are that you're making an educated guess.


Well I assume if it's multiple choice and the question genuinely makes no sense to the point people have to guess, then he'd strike it(as people would benefit from correct guessing vs any actual knowledge). If it's non MC then probably no reason to strike.

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goosey
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby goosey » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:58 am

GeePee wrote:
goosey wrote:
GeePee wrote:The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.

Hmmm..I think I disagree with that. Firstly, a case can only be removed be a defendant within 30 days or, if the structure of the case changes than x amount of time after receiving notice of the amended pleadings, so long as its been less than a year since the case started. You can't remove whenevr

No, a case can only be properly removed by a defendant within 30 days of filing. That's why 1447(c) exists.

Again, the state court automatically grants removal, and then the federal courts sort out the possibility of remand on the other side. "Removal" jurisdiction is really a misnomer; it really should be "remand" jurisdiction when viewed from the perspective of the federal courts.


Baylan wrote:
Odds are, if you couldn't find the one best answer, you didn't understand the material fully enough in order to find it.


our professor did not go over it in such detail...what we went over is what I told you. And hes not a hide the ball kind of guy...he strictly tested on what we were taught...he didnt go into all rules in detail and removal was one of them...so thats the reason I think it was ambiguous. There were a few questions [not many] that were a little iffy but hopefully the curve will cover for it..?

Baylan
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Baylan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:01 am

sophie316 wrote:
Baylan wrote:
sophie316 wrote:Isn't this where the curve comes in handy though? If the question made no sense then surely everyone will have had the same problem, the professor will probably realise this and strike it. If enough people got it right, it probably made sense.


This is where the curve is really nice. Why would the prof need to strike it? If everyone got it wrong, its like everyone just has one less question on their exam.

It is extremely unlikely that the question is constructed so poorly that it can be answered two ways, or there is no "righter" answer. Knowing the material well helps figure it out. And if you don't understand the material fully for that particular question, odds are that you're making an educated guess.


Well I assume if it's multiple choice and the question genuinely makes no sense to the point people have to guess, then he'd strike it(as people would benefit from correct guessing vs any actual knowledge). If it's non MC then probably no reason to strike.


Have you ever taken a law school MC exam (or portion of an exam) before? It could best be summarized at somewhere between a giant clusterfuck and multiple educated guess. There are MAYBE 1 out of 3 or 4 that you can be "certain" on, and frequently the highest grade in the class will go to someone who got 60-70% correct. How is a professor going to differentiate between a hard question and good guessing? Its impossible.

Baylan
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Baylan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:04 am

goosey wrote:
GeePee wrote:
goosey wrote:
GeePee wrote:The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.

Hmmm..I think I disagree with that. Firstly, a case can only be removed be a defendant within 30 days or, if the structure of the case changes than x amount of time after receiving notice of the amended pleadings, so long as its been less than a year since the case started. You can't remove whenevr

No, a case can only be properly removed by a defendant within 30 days of filing. That's why 1447(c) exists.

Again, the state court automatically grants removal, and then the federal courts sort out the possibility of remand on the other side. "Removal" jurisdiction is really a misnomer; it really should be "remand" jurisdiction when viewed from the perspective of the federal courts.


Baylan wrote:
Odds are, if you couldn't find the one best answer, you didn't understand the material fully enough in order to find it.


our professor did not go over it in such detail...what we went over is what I told you. And hes not a hide the ball kind of guy...he strictly tested on what we were taught...he didnt go into all rules in detail and removal was one of them...so thats the reason I think it was ambiguous. There were a few questions [not many] that were a little iffy but hopefully the curve will cover for it..?


If there were a "few questions" that were "iffy" odds are that you missed the point of the question. It is like struggling through an LSAT logic game when you haven't made the crucial inference yet. No harm, or shame in that. Its likely that everyone else missed just as many, and probably different questions.

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goosey
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby goosey » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:10 am

I understand the tendency to infer that I probably just didnt understand...but the ones I didnt know well enough, I knew I didnt know well enough. These were questions that just werent worded all that well, which isnt entirely implausible, considering it was one professor writing them and multiple choice questions are pretty hard to write. Even lsat questions--where the questions are tested multiple times and there are professional test-writer ppl [sorry I dont know what to call them]---are occasionaly thrown out. So I odnt see why its that hard to believe that there were iffy multiple choice questions..not a ton, but maybe 2 or 3

I definitely don't think he was being weird or sneaky--I think that the questions werent entirely clear becuase thats just the nature of mc sometimes unless you go through rounds and rounds of preliminary testing before officially using them.

sophie316
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby sophie316 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:21 am

Baylan wrote:
Have you ever taken a law school MC exam (or portion of an exam) before? It could best be summarized at somewhere between a giant clusterfuck and multiple educated guess. There are MAYBE 1 out of 3 or 4 that you can be "certain" on, and frequently the highest grade in the class will go to someone who got 60-70% correct. How is a professor going to differentiate between a hard question and good guessing? Its impossible.


Nope I haven't so I will defer to those with more knowledge

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mths
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby mths » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:24 am

goosey wrote:I understand the tendency to infer that I probably just didnt understand...but the ones I didnt know well enough, I knew I didnt know well enough. These were questions that just werent worded all that well, which isnt entirely implausible, considering it was one professor writing them and multiple choice questions are pretty hard to write. Even lsat questions--where the questions are tested multiple times and there are professional test-writer ppl [sorry I dont know what to call them]---are occasionaly thrown out. So I odnt see why its that hard to believe that there were iffy multiple choice questions..not a ton, but maybe 2 or 3

I definitely don't think he was being weird or sneaky--I think that the questions werent entirely clear becuase thats just the nature of mc sometimes unless you go through rounds and rounds of preliminary testing before officially using them.

I really think the general rule is that all law school MC questions are "iffy". If you understood them well, you did it wrong.

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inchoate_con
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby inchoate_con » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:57 am

No, relax.... nothing you can do. We're all going through it, and you're probably wrong for numerous reasons.

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kcg171
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby kcg171 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:38 am

Here is a lovely MCQ from my torts exam:
Which is not an element of false imprisonment
a. harm
b. confinement
c. awareness
d. purpose

purpose and intent are synonyms. harm is sufficient if the person wasn't aware. would i ever think i knew enough about the subject to tell my professor he didn't write the question correctly? no way. is it driving me crazy? sure thing.

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thexfactor
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby thexfactor » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:59 am

create an anonoymous email account and email the professor. He wouldn't know who it is. That is one way around it.

Geist13
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Geist13 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:00 am

kcg171 wrote:Here is a lovely MCQ from my torts exam:
Which is not an element of false imprisonment
a. harm
b. confinement
c. awareness
d. purpose

purpose and intent are synonyms. harm is sufficient if the person wasn't aware. would i ever think i knew enough about the subject to tell my professor he didn't write the question correctly? no way. is it driving me crazy? sure thing.


edit: woops i read it wrong. you're right, i don't know what the answer is

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shortporch
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby shortporch » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:07 am

I think you are giving your professors far too little credit.

goosey wrote:for ex, one said that 3 months after the plaintiff filed the case the defendant moved to remove--now, I didn't know if we can assume he filed/served notice at the same time, in which case the time to remove would be gone, or else if he didnt serve notice until the last minute, in which case the defendant could still remove [dont you have 120 days to serve notice or something after filing?]


The question says "filed." You don't even know what State it's been filed in, so the 120 days' point you raise is irrelevant--if you were really trying to stump your professor, you'd need to identify the service rules after filing in every single State, then try to identify which States have which rules on filing and service. And you didn't provide the question, or the answers, so it's impossible to tell whether or not this is even relevant to answering the question (which, I assume, it isn't).

GeePee wrote:The defendant can remove at any time... the court can just remand if the plaintiff answers within 30 days. There's nothing tricky about that question at all -- removal is automatic, but the court must remand if the plaintiff moves within 30 days of removal.


This is completely wrong. If you want to spend time parsing the word "can" to make it "capable of, subject to being smacked down in federal court," rathern than "may properly do so," then you're going to have an extraordinarily long legal career ahead of you.

kcg171 wrote:Here is a lovely MCQ from my torts exam:
Which is not an element of false imprisonment
a. harm
b. confinement
c. awareness
d. purpose

purpose and intent are synonyms. harm is sufficient if the person wasn't aware. would i ever think i knew enough about the subject to tell my professor he didn't write the question correctly? no way. is it driving me crazy? sure thing.


If you believe that "purpose" and "intent" are synonyms, then you've already missed the boat.

Short answer: don't e-mail your professor. You're mis-reading the questions.

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goosey
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby goosey » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:41 am

shortporch wrote:I think you are giving your professors far too little credit.


I obviously didn't give the question word for word, there was more info in there, but I am now convinced that when he said "filed" he meant served. And I got it wrong.

This is why essays are, in a way, better. My crim professor gave us a writing assignment where guy A hits guy B w his car, decides to go home and come back in the morning and pretend he found him on the side of the rd injured. In the meanwhile a bloodclot dislodges in guy b's leg and causes a stroke-he dies. It was a homicide question. Who knows if the guy had the bloodclot from before or if guy A's accident caused the bloodclot. It was kind of hard to discuss causation with that giant gap. So its like, either the prof put it there to catch us making assumptions or else she made a mistake. Atleast in an essay you can write one line in to clarify you know you are making an assumption, so if she was trying to catch you making assumptions, you don't lose points, while if it was inadvertent, you're still safe. In this case, she made a mistake and gave extra points to the ppl that pointed out the assumption. But with multiple choice, you have no idea if the prof is trying to catch you making assumptions or just made a mistake, and you can't even clarify. Its either right or wrong. And just like in crim, where 90% of the class didn't pay attention to the exact words, with mc, 90% of the ppl probably didn't realize it said file and not serve..and so as opposed to getting extra pnts, those that noticed will get it wrong. Such is life.

I need to stop stressing over it though, I feel good about it. Hopefully 2 or 3 questions won't kill my grade.

Baylan
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Baylan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:02 am

goosey wrote:
shortporch wrote:I think you are giving your professors far too little credit.


I obviously didn't give the question word for word, there was more info in there, but I am now convinced that when he said "filed" he meant served. And I got it wrong.

This is why essays are, in a way, better. My crim professor gave us a writing assignment where guy A hits guy B w his car, decides to go home and come back in the morning and pretend he found him on the side of the rd injured. In the meanwhile a bloodclot dislodges in guy b's leg and causes a stroke-he dies. It was a homicide question. Who knows if the guy had the bloodclot from before or if guy A's accident caused the bloodclot. It was kind of hard to discuss causation with that giant gap. So its like, either the prof put it there to catch us making assumptions or else she made a mistake. Atleast in an essay you can write one line in to clarify you know you are making an assumption, so if she was trying to catch you making assumptions, you don't lose points, while if it was inadvertent, you're still safe. In this case, she made a mistake and gave extra points to the ppl that pointed out the assumption. But with multiple choice, you have no idea if the prof is trying to catch you making assumptions or just made a mistake, and you can't even clarify. Its either right or wrong. And just like in crim, where 90% of the class didn't pay attention to the exact words, with mc, 90% of the ppl probably didn't realize it said file and not serve..and so as opposed to getting extra pnts, those that noticed will get it wrong. Such is life.

I need to stop stressing over it though, I feel good about it. Hopefully 2 or 3 questions won't kill my grade.


My attitude towards helping people, and similarly, to any individual question: if giving my notes, or getting one issue wrong is making that big of a difference that someone else is going to "do better" than me, then I don't deserve to be in front of them in the line for grades anyway.

People bitch and moan about the arbitrariness of grades, but lets be honest, when you're trying to cram a semesters worth of learning into one three hour block, what do you expect? They have to come up with a way to grade it somehow.

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Unitas
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Re: questionable multiple choice..email professor?

Postby Unitas » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:02 am

goosey wrote:
shortporch wrote:I think you are giving your professors far too little credit.


I obviously didn't give the question word for word, there was more info in there, but I am now convinced that when he said "filed" he meant served. And I got it wrong.

This is why essays are, in a way, better. My crim professor gave us a writing assignment where guy A hits guy B w his car, decides to go home and come back in the morning and pretend he found him on the side of the rd injured. In the meanwhile a bloodclot dislodges in guy b's leg and causes a stroke-he dies. It was a homicide question. Who knows if the guy had the bloodclot from before or if guy A's accident caused the bloodclot. It was kind of hard to discuss causation with that giant gap. So its like, either the prof put it there to catch us making assumptions or else she made a mistake. Atleast in an essay you can write one line in to clarify you know you are making an assumption, so if she was trying to catch you making assumptions, you don't lose points, while if it was inadvertent, you're still safe. In this case, she made a mistake and gave extra points to the ppl that pointed out the assumption. But with multiple choice, you have no idea if the prof is trying to catch you making assumptions or just made a mistake, and you can't even clarify. Its either right or wrong. And just like in crim, where 90% of the class didn't pay attention to the exact words, with mc, 90% of the ppl probably didn't realize it said file and not serve..and so as opposed to getting extra pnts, those that noticed will get it wrong. Such is life.

I need to stop stressing over it though, I feel good about it. Hopefully 2 or 3 questions won't kill my grade.


I remember you somewhat from forums in the past, just one thing to say: Relax. Don't stress any questions or what could have been. You can't change it, don't contact the professor or do anything silly. Forget the exams you have done and move forward, every single person on this forum can point out a mistake they made on one of their exams they have already taken this semester - it isn't a big deal.




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