1L grade waiting thread

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keg411
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:19 pm

blurbz wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Just got our first OCI list. We have about 20 big firms coming for our first week, hot damn. Getting excited.



Illinois career services can't be bothered to provide us with our OCI lists prior to the beginning of the bidding period. I'm bitter about it because it's clear they know who is coming: I've talked to people I know at a few places who have told me when their firm is coming to our OCI....but for some reason career services doesn't find it important enough to give us a list.


That's obnoxious -- law schools should realize how much a bad CSO can hurt the school/student (see: Emory).
We've had our list for the past few weeks already (but it's just on Simplicity; they never explicitly told us it was available).
Last edited by keg411 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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blurbz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby blurbz » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:20 pm

bjsesq wrote:
blurbz wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Just got our first OCI list. We have about 20 big firms coming for our first week, hot damn. Getting excited.



Illinois career services can't be bothered to provide us with our OCI lists prior to the beginning of the bidding period. I'm bitter about it because it's clear they know who is coming: I've talked to people I know at a few places who have told me when their firm is coming to our OCI....but for some reason career services doesn't find it important enough to give us a list.


Every time I hear comment on your career services office, it is invariably negative. I'm sorry you folks got stuck with such fuckwads. You deserve better.



Haha, thanks. It is literally the only aspect of the school I've been disappointed with (maybe Torts professors excluded...). I'll take it all back if the OCI list we're eventually given contains a LOT of employers. Otherwise....no.

keg411 wrote:We've had our list for the past few weeks already (but it's just on Simplicity; they never explicitly told us it was available).


Yeah, I keep checking Symplicity to make sure it's not up, but so far: Nothing.

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traehekat
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby traehekat » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:22 pm

keg411 wrote:
blurbz wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Just got our first OCI list. We have about 20 big firms coming for our first week, hot damn. Getting excited.



Illinois career services can't be bothered to provide us with our OCI lists prior to the beginning of the bidding period. I'm bitter about it because it's clear they know who is coming: I've talked to people I know at a few places who have told me when their firm is coming to our OCI....but for some reason career services doesn't find it important enough to give us a list.


That's obnoxious -- law schools should realize how much a bad CSO can hurt the school/student (see: Emory).
We've had our list for the past few weeks already (but it's just on Simplicity; they never explicitly told us it was available).


Our CSO has been good about providing us with a list of firms and making it available on Symplicity. I think it has been available in some form since late April. Unfortunately, our CSO doesn't provide a list of students' GPAs that were hired by these firms in the past, something I know a lot of people get angry about.

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bjsesq
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:25 pm

traehekat wrote:
keg411 wrote:
blurbz wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Just got our first OCI list. We have about 20 big firms coming for our first week, hot damn. Getting excited.



Illinois career services can't be bothered to provide us with our OCI lists prior to the beginning of the bidding period. I'm bitter about it because it's clear they know who is coming: I've talked to people I know at a few places who have told me when their firm is coming to our OCI....but for some reason career services doesn't find it important enough to give us a list.


That's obnoxious -- law schools should realize how much a bad CSO can hurt the school/student (see: Emory).
We've had our list for the past few weeks already (but it's just on Simplicity; they never explicitly told us it was available).


Our CSO has been good about providing us with a list of firms and making it available on Symplicity. I think it has been available in some form since late April. Unfortunately, our CSO doesn't provide a list of students' GPAs that were hired by these firms in the past, something I know a lot of people get angry about.


I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.

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kalvano
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby kalvano » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:29 pm

Speaking of OCI, what's a good number of firms to have coming for OCI?

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dailygrind
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:31 pm

bjsesq wrote:I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.


i guess the CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate the info? if so, it's vicious cycle. CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate because many will be disgruntled due to lack of jerbs, many students don't get jerbs because bidlist sucks, CSO doesn't trust students not to disseminate because the students are disgruntled.

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JordynAsh
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby JordynAsh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:33 pm

romothesavior wrote:Still no grades. Getting REALLY mad, especially since today is supposed to be the deadline and they pushed it back to next week.


Our grade deadline isn't until the 21st, but every other section has at least one grade back. It's also been 73 days since the brief was turned in and no LRW grade. :(

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bjsesq
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:33 pm

dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.


i guess the CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate the info? if so, it's vicious cycle. CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate because many will be disgruntled due to lack of jerbs, many students don't get jerbs because bidlist sucks, CSO doesn't trust students not to disseminate because the students are disgruntled.


Exactly. Imean, christ, if you are attempting to ensure the success of students in gaining employment, why would you deny them access to the information which best serves that goal? I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.

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blurbz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby blurbz » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:34 pm

traehekat wrote:Our CSO has been good about providing us with a list of firms and making it available on Symplicity. I think it has been available in some form since late April. Unfortunately, our CSO doesn't provide a list of students' GPAs that were hired by these firms in the past, something I know a lot of people get angry about.



Oy, I am not looking forward to having this fight with our CSO. Maybe they think we'll just be SOOO happy to finally know which firms are coming that we'll just skip the whole "research" part and bid on the firms with the most lawyerly sounding names...

missinglink
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby missinglink » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:35 pm

traehekat wrote:
keg411 wrote:
blurbz wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Just got our first OCI list. We have about 20 big firms coming for our first week, hot damn. Getting excited.



Illinois career services can't be bothered to provide us with our OCI lists prior to the beginning of the bidding period. I'm bitter about it because it's clear they know who is coming: I've talked to people I know at a few places who have told me when their firm is coming to our OCI....but for some reason career services doesn't find it important enough to give us a list.


That's obnoxious -- law schools should realize how much a bad CSO can hurt the school/student (see: Emory).
We've had our list for the past few weeks already (but it's just on Simplicity; they never explicitly told us it was available).


Our CSO has been good about providing us with a list of firms and making it available on Symplicity. I think it has been available in some form since late April. Unfortunately, our CSO doesn't provide a list of students' GPAs that were hired by these firms in the past, something I know a lot of people get angry about.


Same problem with my CSO. It makes the list of firms and their GPA "preferences" damn near useless. I need to know what the actual cutoffs for these firms are, not what they say.

And as far as I can tell, career services doesn't even collect that kind of data. That, to me, is the ultimate "head in the sand" mentality.

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dailygrind
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:38 pm

bjsesq wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.


i guess the CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate the info? if so, it's vicious cycle. CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate because many will be disgruntled due to lack of jerbs, many students don't get jerbs because bidlist sucks, CSO doesn't trust students not to disseminate because the students are disgruntled.


Exactly. Imean, christ, if you are attempting to ensure the success of students in gaining employment, why would you deny them access to the information which best serves that goal? I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.


cuz if hard data escapes out into the world which shows how poorly a school is doing, it could really fuck their admissions. i'd guess that this isn't a call made solely by the CSO.

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bjsesq
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:40 pm

dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.


i guess the CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate the info? if so, it's vicious cycle. CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate because many will be disgruntled due to lack of jerbs, many students don't get jerbs because bidlist sucks, CSO doesn't trust students not to disseminate because the students are disgruntled.


Exactly. Imean, christ, if you are attempting to ensure the success of students in gaining employment, why would you deny them access to the information which best serves that goal? I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.


cuz if hard data escapes out into the world which shows how poorly a school is doing, it could really fuck their admissions. i'd guess that this isn't a call made solely by the CSO.



True, but the cycle rears its ugly head again: the numbers remain lower than the CSO wishes because, at least in part, he doesn't set up students for success.

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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:40 pm

bjsesq wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.


i guess the CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate the info? if so, it's vicious cycle. CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate because many will be disgruntled due to lack of jerbs, many students don't get jerbs because bidlist sucks, CSO doesn't trust students not to disseminate because the students are disgruntled.


Exactly. Imean, christ, if you are attempting to ensure the success of students in gaining employment, why would you deny them access to the information which best serves that goal? I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.


I think most of these schools are preselect, which makes it less horrible. That kind of data isn't as important for pre select.

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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:41 pm

dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I've seen this numerous times now. How in the hell is a student supposed to construct a legitimate bid list if they do not have access to this information? Seriously.


i guess the CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate the info? if so, it's vicious cycle. CSO doesn't trust the students not to disseminate because many will be disgruntled due to lack of jerbs, many students don't get jerbs because bidlist sucks, CSO doesn't trust students not to disseminate because the students are disgruntled.


Exactly. Imean, christ, if you are attempting to ensure the success of students in gaining employment, why would you deny them access to the information which best serves that goal? I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.


cuz if hard data escapes out into the world which shows how poorly a school is doing, it could really fuck their admissions. i'd guess that this isn't a call made solely by the CSO.


You can present the data in ways that mask how terrible you do. For example, just give median call back GPA, and lowest GPA called back.

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blurbz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby blurbz » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I think most of these schools are preselect, which makes it less horrible. That kind of data isn't as important for pre select.



It's still fairly important because, though we're predominantly preselect, we can only submit to a limited number of firms. So without this info, someone at the 15% mark might get unlucky and submit only to firms that list top 20% as their cutoff but, in practice, hire only top 5%.

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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:45 pm

Desert Fox wrote:You can present the data in ways that mask how terrible you do. For example, just give median call back GPA, and lowest GPA called back.


that could still be plenty revealing if the GPA's are high, and not of huge use to students because median's callback is not necessarily reflective of who's actually in the running (since the people at the top end of the curve get many more callbacks than those who just barely squeaked in) and lowest GPA is almost always an outlier. still, good point.

09042014
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:48 pm

dailygrind wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You can present the data in ways that mask how terrible you do. For example, just give median call back GPA, and lowest GPA called back.


that could still be plenty revealing if the GPA's are high, and not of huge use to students because median's callback is not necessarily reflective of who's actually in the running (since the people at the top end of the curve get many more callbacks than those who just barely squeaked in) and lowest GPA is almost always an outlier. still, good point.


I've seen Mich and UVA data from 2009 and I can't make heads or tails of it.

If I were making data, I'd do a 75%/50%/25% for call backs. But even that can get fucked by IP kids.

Callback median is pretty helpful. You know it's considerably above what the soft cut is.

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kalvano
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby kalvano » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:49 pm

So wait, some of your Career Services Offices provide info not just on the preferred GPA range of the firm, but on exactly what GPA's got interviews and callbacks?

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bjsesq
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:51 pm

kalvano wrote:So wait, some of your Career Services Offices provide info not just on the preferred GPA range of the firm, but on exactly what GPA's got interviews and callbacks?


Not exact GPA's, but top, median, and bottom. It's helpful, to say the least.

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dailygrind
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:52 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You can present the data in ways that mask how terrible you do. For example, just give median call back GPA, and lowest GPA called back.


that could still be plenty revealing if the GPA's are high, and not of huge use to students because median's callback is not necessarily reflective of who's actually in the running (since the people at the top end of the curve get many more callbacks than those who just barely squeaked in) and lowest GPA is almost always an outlier. still, good point.


I've seen Mich and UVA data from 2009 and I can't make heads or tails of it.

If I were making data, I'd do a 75%/50%/25% for call backs. But even that can get fucked by IP kids.

Callback median is pretty helpful. You know it's considerably above what the soft cut is.


if i were making data i'd put in some goddamn labels. IP, WE, LR, URM, etc. who the hell know's what's going on at the bottom end of the curve? haven't seen any of the data yet, but our CSO promised to give us last year's data in a week. that's when life gets interesting.

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kalvano
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby kalvano » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:53 pm

bjsesq wrote:
kalvano wrote:So wait, some of your Career Services Offices provide info not just on the preferred GPA range of the firm, but on exactly what GPA's got interviews and callbacks?


Not exact GPA's, but top, median, and bottom. It's helpful, to say the least.



Is there a list provided, or do you have to ask for it from OCS?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:53 pm

bjsesq wrote:
kalvano wrote:So wait, some of your Career Services Offices provide info not just on the preferred GPA range of the firm, but on exactly what GPA's got interviews and callbacks?


Not exact GPA's, but top, median, and bottom. It's helpful, to say the least.


Do you know what schools do this so I can mention them in my latest angry email to Illinois career services?

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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:59 pm

dailygrind wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You can present the data in ways that mask how terrible you do. For example, just give median call back GPA, and lowest GPA called back.


that could still be plenty revealing if the GPA's are high, and not of huge use to students because median's callback is not necessarily reflective of who's actually in the running (since the people at the top end of the curve get many more callbacks than those who just barely squeaked in) and lowest GPA is almost always an outlier. still, good point.


I've seen Mich and UVA data from 2009 and I can't make heads or tails of it.

If I were making data, I'd do a 75%/50%/25% for call backs. But even that can get fucked by IP kids.

Callback median is pretty helpful. You know it's considerably above what the soft cut is.


if i were making data i'd put in some goddamn labels. IP, WE, LR, URM, etc. who the hell know's what's going on at the bottom end of the curve? haven't seen any of the data yet, but our CSO promised to give us last year's data in a week. that's when life gets interesting.


I'm sure if there is enough data to pick out WE and LR. In fact I'm not too convinced LR is that huge of a factor. People say it only helps if you grade on instead of write on. But what is that really saying, that having amazing grades makes you do well? No shit.

I'd try to pull out IP data though. Not just so it doesn't mess with everyone's data, but finding data for ourselves is tough as hell. I don't know where I'm a reach at and where I'm a target.

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philosoraptor
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby philosoraptor » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:59 pm

JordynAsh wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Still no grades. Getting REALLY mad, especially since today is supposed to be the deadline and they pushed it back to next week.


Our grade deadline isn't until the 21st, but every other section has at least one grade back. It's also been 73 days since the brief was turned in and no LRW grade. :(
Maybe there could be some administrative problem that caused them to hold grades for our whole section? The fact that neither of our small sections has an LRW grade is particularly suspicious. Do you know if either of the other Section 3 small groups has an LRW grade?

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dailygrind
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby dailygrind » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:05 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
dailygrind wrote:if i were making data i'd put in some goddamn labels. IP, WE, LR, URM, etc. who the hell know's what's going on at the bottom end of the curve? haven't seen any of the data yet, but our CSO promised to give us last year's data in a week. that's when life gets interesting.


I'm sure if there is enough data to pick out WE and LR. In fact I'm not too convinced LR is that huge of a factor. People say it only helps if you grade on instead of write on. But what is that really saying, that having amazing grades makes you do well? No shit.

I'd try to pull out IP data though. Not just so it doesn't mess with everyone's data, but finding data for ourselves is tough as hell. I don't know where I'm a reach at and where I'm a target.


WE would probably be cake to pull out at NU. it's attached to your application. even if it doesn't always reflect the type of WE people are looking for, it'd be something. as for write on LR, i don't know too many people who wrote on here at UVA, but people speak of it like it's a silver bullet at OGI. certainly it's indicative of something of value for future employers. they can sell the associate easier (dude was on LR!!!), and the guy presumably has better ability to write under pressure than the other associates.




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