1L grade waiting thread

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:01 pm

I have always thought of law students as HYS as:

1. Get accepted as HYS.
2. Do whatever the hell you want all day everyday.
3. Profit.

A&O
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby A&O » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:03 pm

Probably still true at YS.

Not at all true at H.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:04 pm

A&O wrote:Probably still true at YS.

Not at all true at H.


Pretty credited from what I understand.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:08 pm

Wow, whats going on at H? Dont know many that take S over H when choosing a law school assuming money isn't in play.

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booboo
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby booboo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:10 pm

It's a large school.

A&O
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby A&O » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:11 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Wow, whats going on at H? Dont know many that take S over H when choosing a law school assuming money isn't in play.


Harvard is much larger than its peer schools. If I may, I'll make a controversial argument. H could increase the employability of its class by as much as 10% if they kept using their old grading system.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:13 pm

i'm refreshing my e-mail constantly.

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booboo
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby booboo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:13 pm

A&O wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Wow, whats going on at H? Dont know many that take S over H when choosing a law school assuming money isn't in play.


Harvard is much larger than its peer schools. If I may, I'll make a controversial argument. H could increase the employability of its class by as much as 10% if they kept using their old grading system.


I like this, it would help demarcate students better and the slightly below median students would probably fare much better, instead of being lost in the shuffle.

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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby A&O » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:14 pm

I like this, it would help demarcate students better and the slightly below median students would probably fare much better, instead of being lost in the shuffle.


Exactly.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:15 pm

Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.

A&O
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby A&O » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:18 pm

I don't want to stray this thread off-topic, so this is the last post I'll make about this.

Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.


If Harvard Law students are not getting big law jobs, that means the big law job market is already oversaturated with Harvard Law School degrees. That's my opinion.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


This is not a case of one school giving out As, Bs, and Cs, while another school gives out As, Bs, Cs, Ds, and Fs. It's the case of one school giving A+s, As, Bs, and optional Cs, and other schools giving out A+s, As, A-s, B+s, Bs, B-s, and optional Cs.

keg411
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby keg411 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:27 pm

I agree with A&O that HLS needs to go back to having letter grades. It's just too big. It's also the same reason Boalt has supposedly been hurting at OCI in comparison to peer schools (and the same sort of goes for Chicago and its crazy grading system). SLS and YLS are different in terms of the T3 because the class sizes are so small that they are just more "in demand" than Harvard students in general.

That said, I would probably still give up a body part to have the grades to transfer to HLS, strange grading or not.

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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby A&O » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:28 pm

OK, I promise this is my last post on this topic, but I have to correct this:
and the same sort of goes for Chicago's crazy grading system


I don't think so. Chicago's grading system is actually extremely precise.

09042014
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:11 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


Putting D's and F's on people's transcript just makes them unemployable. I don't see how that helps. It's already really easy to tell really crappy students from just bad.

Harvard should have either gone all the way (No LPs) or kept it the way it was.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:19 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started...failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


Well.....yeah. It would boost employment rates, but it would be kind of ridiculous. Frankly, if some kids in the bottom 10% want to keep paying tuition which helps fund the school which ultimately benefits me, I'm okay with it. It's not like they would be competing with me for grades. If they think a legal education and a chance to pass the bar and practice as an attorney is worth that money, the school can keep taking their money and just hand them C's back in return - fine with me. I don't know, something just seems unfair about taking $50k of somebody's money and then kicking them out when they do poorly.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:20 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


Putting D's and F's on people's transcript just makes them unemployable. I don't see how that helps. It's already really easy to tell really crappy students from just bad.

Harvard should have either gone all the way (No LPs) or kept it the way it was.


Basically there would be some sort of cut off for failing out and D's and F's would lead to that cut off. My main point is I think law schools should fail out the bottom 10% of the class at the end of the year or make selectivity much more competitive or close down every T4 school or a little of all 3. There is a reason that Doctors are recession proof and lawyers aren't, and that difference lies between what it takes to get in and stay at a Medical school versus what it takes to get in and stay at a law school.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby Holly Golightly » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:24 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


Putting D's and F's on people's transcript just makes them unemployable. I don't see how that helps. It's already really easy to tell really crappy students from just bad.

Harvard should have either gone all the way (No LPs) or kept it the way it was.


Basically there would be some sort of cut off for failing out and D's and F's would lead to that cut off. My main point is I think law schools should fail out the bottom 10% of the class at the end of the year or make selectivity much more competitive or close down every T4 school or a little of all 3. There is a reason that Doctors are recession proof and lawyers aren't, and that difference lies between what it takes to get in and stay at a Medical school versus what it takes to get in and stay at a law school.

This entire thing is ridiculous.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:25 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


Putting D's and F's on people's transcript just makes them unemployable. I don't see how that helps. It's already really easy to tell really crappy students from just bad.

Harvard should have either gone all the way (No LPs) or kept it the way it was.


Basically there would be some sort of cut off for failing out and D's and F's would lead to that cut off. My main point is I think law schools should fail out the bottom 10% of the class at the end of the year or make selectivity much more competitive or close down every T4 school or a little of all 3. There is a reason that Doctors are recession proof and lawyers aren't, and that difference lies between what it takes to get in and stay at a Medical school versus what it takes to get in and stay at a law school.

This entire thing is ridiculous.


It very well might be, and I may just be ranting because of the market. I doubt anyone disagrees that there are too many law schools and that something is wrong with a person who has a 2.7 and a 146 and can still get in.

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California Babe
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby California Babe » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:28 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Basically there would be some sort of cut off for failing out and D's and F's would lead to that cut off. My main point is I think law schools should fail out the bottom 10% of the class at the end of the year or make selectivity much more competitive or close down every T4 school or a little of all 3. There is a reason that Doctors are recession proof and lawyers aren't, and that difference lies between what it takes to get in and stay at a Medical school versus what it takes to get in and stay at a law school.


Medical schools don't require 10% of the class to fail. Also:

Holly Golightly wrote:This entire thing is ridiculous.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:32 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:It very well might be, and I may just be ranting because of the market. I doubt anyone disagrees that there are too many law schools and that something is wrong with a person who has a 2.7 and a 146 and can still get in.


He's not getting a job and he sure as hell is not competing with me, so eh.

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soullesswonder
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:36 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:It very well might be, and I may just be ranting because of the market. I doubt anyone disagrees that there are too many law schools and that something is wrong with a person who has a 2.7 and a 146 and can still get in.


He's not getting a job and he sure as hell is not competing with me, so eh.


I'm torn between Helmholtz's position and visceral disgust with all those TTT admins who genuinely believe they're doing God's work out there taking money from the unwary.

09042014
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:38 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Not sure if the market will ever be oversaturated with Harvard degrees though.

About the employment statistics, I think ALL law schools could increase employment rates by a significant margin if they started handing out D's, F's and failing people. Problem is that would make them lose $ and thats really all they care about.


Putting D's and F's on people's transcript just makes them unemployable. I don't see how that helps. It's already really easy to tell really crappy students from just bad.

Harvard should have either gone all the way (No LPs) or kept it the way it was.


Basically there would be some sort of cut off for failing out and D's and F's would lead to that cut off. My main point is I think law schools should fail out the bottom 10% of the class at the end of the year or make selectivity much more competitive or close down every T4 school or a little of all 3. There is a reason that Doctors are recession proof and lawyers aren't, and that difference lies between what it takes to get in and stay at a Medical school versus what it takes to get in and stay at a law school.


The reason doctors are recession proof

1)Inelastic demand
2)Med schools have limited number of seats4

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Helmholtz
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:43 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:It very well might be, and I may just be ranting because of the market. I doubt anyone disagrees that there are too many law schools and that something is wrong with a person who has a 2.7 and a 146 and can still get in.


He's not getting a job and he sure as hell is not competing with me, so eh.


I'm torn between Helmholtz's position and visceral disgust with all those TTT admins who genuinely believe they're doing God's work out there taking money from the unwary.


Oh, I didn't realize my position necessarily excluded the possibility of also being disgusted by the TTT admins. But I don't really see them that much differently than those payday loan people who offer 3,500% interest to people too stupid to understand how money works. People buying lottery tickets or who are in the habit of taking out payday loans don't really effect me and at least money is being shifted to people smart enough to take advantage of the ignorant. It's pretty awful how they play on people's irrationalities or bad judgment, but eh, it's not a new thing.

foxtrottortxof
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby foxtrottortxof » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:01 am

citydweller09 wrote:Any HLS folks have any idea what the grade cutoffs are for top 10%, 25%, 50%, etc.?


From what I've heard, 3/10 Hs for the year is about median. LPs really shake it up, so it's hard to say. LRW is counted the same by firms, if not slightly more so, since it's actually applicable to what you'd be doing.

I would say that differences in job outcomes between Harvard and Stanford should very, very rarely be dispositive of your decision which to attend. You really should go to the one that you think you'll be happier going and having gone to.

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MrKappus
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Re: 1L grade waiting thread

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:17 am

Helmholtz wrote:Oh, I didn't realize my position necessarily excluded the possibility of also being disgusted by the TTT admins. But I don't really see them that much differently than those payday loan people who offer 3,500% interest to people too stupid to understand how money works. People buying lottery tickets or who are in the habit of taking out payday loans don't really effect me and at least money is being shifted to people smart enough to take advantage of the ignorant. It's pretty awful how they play on people's irrationalities or bad judgment, but eh, it's not a new thing.


This post, the bolded especially, exhibits a breathtaking misunderstanding of basic socioeconomics and income inequality. They don't borrow from these lenders because they misunderstand money, you [derogatory phrase]. They borrow from them because no one else will lend to them.

edited

edit #2: quoted post also exhibits a misunderstanding of effect/affect, but I forgive you.




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