If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

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dood
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby dood » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:25 pm

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Last edited by dood on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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100Miles&Runnin'
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby 100Miles&Runnin' » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:35 pm

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't worry too much. I know I did write, "as discussed above" a couple of times. Could have burnt up the extra time re-writing that stuff. But I have had a couple of face-plant moments thinking about what I missed. But I have to think that 2 face-plants is a solid B, and still leaves an outside shot at an A.

random5483
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby random5483 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:16 am

The longest answers are not necessarily the best answers. Granted, longer answers likely cover more possible issues, but a person who talks about "reach" issues and misses points on "core" issues will do much worse than a person who thoroughly and concisely analyses the "core" issues.

For instance, a few of my classmates discussed "conversion" in a pure negligence essay. Nothing in the fact pattern suggested anything but negligence. Going out of your way to discuss conversion in a "what if" scenario might be worth it if you run out of things to say. However, I doubt my skipping the "conversion" cause of action will hurt my paper.

Some people like to do a brain dump and mention every single rule they know of and analyze every remote and unlikely cause of action. With some professors this might give you "bonus" points; however, most seem to give no points. Long as your professor falls in the majority, having a super long paper probably won't be very beneficial unless all the issues discussed are important issues.

A good way to gauge your professor is to read model answers. If the model answers tend to be long, your essays should be long as well. If the model answers are short and concise, make your answers short and concise.

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fathergoose
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby fathergoose » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:27 am

I'm in awe of big numbers like that. I did 4000+ today and that was just brutal.

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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby PirateCap'n » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:22 pm

9,480 words on Civ. Pro. today.................and I don't feel good about it. Worst professor in history, and I have no clue what I wrote. Maybe there's something good there.

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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby keg411 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:29 pm

JCougar wrote:I'd be surprised if I wrote over 3000 words on either of my 3-hour exams so far.

One caveat: my first exam made you "read the questions and outline your answers" for the first 45 minutes, so I only had 2:15 of actual writing time; my second exam had a 50-minute multiple choice section. But still, I don't see why its necessary to type 6,000+ words to spot all the significant and even some minor issues, unless you're not being succinct and bullshitting a bit.

For example, I took a practice exam yesterday and hit every issue on a 40-minute issue-spotter (minus two little details). It took me just under 500 words. There was an enormous 90-minute issue spotter on that same test, with about 10 issues. I spotted 7 of them, and missed 3 (two were fairly minor, though). That took me just over 1,300 words. The last question on the test, I got every issue minus two minor counter-arguments...it was a 40-minute question again. It took me 752 words.

I just can't understand how people can type twice as many words and still be talking about stuff that's germane to the issues.

But I guess we'll see how I do.


I'm jealous of you. I can't write like this for the life of me without massive amounts of editing (and time to edit, which is impossible on law school exams). I generally think succinct = better and so far I've epic failed at that :(.

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moandersen
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby moandersen » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:12 pm

PirateCap'n wrote:9,480 words on Civ. Pro. today.................and I don't feel good about it. Worst professor in history, and I have no clue what I wrote. Maybe there's something good there.


haha, i had a little over 10k. seems like everybody took the dump, copy, paste, and slightly modify approach this year. I can believe I had to pay money for that class. so glad its over....

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ReesesPieces15
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby ReesesPieces15 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:18 pm

5,600 on my 3 hour K exam--I see median in my future

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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby PirateCap'n » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:41 pm

moandersen wrote:
PirateCap'n wrote:9,480 words on Civ. Pro. today.................and I don't feel good about it. Worst professor in history, and I have no clue what I wrote. Maybe there's something good there.


haha, i had a little over 10k. seems like everybody took the dump, copy, paste, and slightly modify approach this year. I can believe I had to pay money for that class. so glad its over....


It's crazy. Most of what I copied and pasted was the personal jurisdiction and subject matter jurisdiction stuff. Even then, it wasn't very good. I actually attempted to answer the questions somewhat on top of the copy and paste, so we'll see how that turns out. I'm fully expecting a C and will be thrilled with anything B- or above

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Columbia Law
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby Columbia Law » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:42 pm

ReesesPieces15 wrote:5,600 on my 3 hour K exam--I see median in my future


That's not terrible.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:23 pm

This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.

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beach_terror
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby beach_terror » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:32 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.

And this is based off your infinite wisdom as a first semester 1L?

And just so you know, professors typically grade one question at a time. Therefore, having consistently 400-500 words more than my peers on a question isn't that much more for a professor to read. My professor specifically told me when I wrote >6k on an old exam with a 2.5k word limit that it was fine, and in fact encouraged.

Further, "saying what needs to be said" encompasses a variety of factors. Even in a small question, there are counterarguments and policy to consider.
Last edited by beach_terror on Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

PirateCap'n
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby PirateCap'n » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:32 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.


Actually, the for professor MA and I were referring to, length does make a difference. He fully expects them to be that long. People have been using the same outline for his class for the past 7 years (it's passed to every class from the upperclassmen), and the ones who memorize it and write it down on the test (without even really answering the questions) are the ones who get the high grades. (I guess that goes along with your "if you don't know anything" idea -- which is true. None of us know anything at all. He failed as a professor). For most other professors though, I would agree with you. Say what you need to say and be done with it. My exams other than this one were between 3-4,000, which I think is generally plenty as long as you put the right stuff.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:40 pm

PirateCap'n wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.


Actually, the for professor MA and I were referring to, length does make a difference. He fully expects them to be that long. People have been using the same outline for his class for the past 7 years (it's passed to every class from the upperclassmen), and the ones who memorize it and write it down on the test (without even really answering the questions) are the ones who get the high grades. (I guess that goes along with your "if you don't know anything" idea -- which is true. None of us know anything at all. He failed as a professor). For most other professors though, I would agree with you. Say what you need to say and be done with it. My exams other than this one were between 3-4,000, which I think is generally plenty as long as you put the right stuff.


This makes much more sense to me. If a prof has consistently expected that word count, by all means. Other than that, I feel like if you're going over 4k you either got a really crazy hypo or you're just rambling. Since my profs grade down for rambling I try and stay away.

And this is based off your infinite wisdom as a first semester 1L?

And just so you know, professors typically grade one question at a time. Therefore, having consistently 400-500 words more than my peers on a question isn't that much more for a professor to read. My professor specifically told me when I wrote >6k on an old exam with a 2.5k word limit that it was fine, and in fact encouraged.


From my recollection you're in the same boat as me for your "infinite wisdom" statement so cool the jets. All I am saying is that when a prof takes your exam and sees 30 pages, it really doesn't matter that they grade one question at a time, you don't really expect them to attentively read 30 pages do you?

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stratocophic
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby stratocophic » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:46 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
PirateCap'n wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.


Actually, the for professor MA and I were referring to, length does make a difference. He fully expects them to be that long. People have been using the same outline for his class for the past 7 years (it's passed to every class from the upperclassmen), and the ones who memorize it and write it down on the test (without even really answering the questions) are the ones who get the high grades. (I guess that goes along with your "if you don't know anything" idea -- which is true. None of us know anything at all. He failed as a professor). For most other professors though, I would agree with you. Say what you need to say and be done with it. My exams other than this one were between 3-4,000, which I think is generally plenty as long as you put the right stuff.


This makes much more sense to me. If a prof has consistently expected that word count, by all means. Other than that, I feel like if you're going over 4k you either got a really crazy hypo or you're just rambling. Since my profs grade down for rambling I try and stay away.

And this is based off your infinite wisdom as a first semester 1L?

And just so you know, professors typically grade one question at a time. Therefore, having consistently 400-500 words more than my peers on a question isn't that much more for a professor to read. My professor specifically told me when I wrote >6k on an old exam with a 2.5k word limit that it was fine, and in fact encouraged.


From my recollection you're in the same boat as me for your "infinite wisdom" statement so cool the jets. All I am saying is that when a prof takes your exam and sees 30 pages, it really doesn't matter that they grade one question at a time, you don't really expect them to attentively read 30 pages do you?
They don't grade 1.2.3. 1.2.3. 1.2.3. They never see all 30 pages together while grading.
They grade
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111
22222222222222222222222222222222222222222
33333333333333333333333333333333333333333

Thus it does not matter how long your exam is if it is on point.

(They meaning professors who grade one question at a time, as opposed to all professors)

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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby beach_terror » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:48 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:From my recollection you're in the same boat as me for your "infinite wisdom" statement so cool the jets. All I am saying is that when a prof takes your exam and sees 30 pages, it really doesn't matter that they grade one question at a time, you don't really expect them to attentively read 30 pages do you?

I'm not the one making blanket statements. It boils down to teacher preferences. Meet with your professor, find out what's preferable, and go with that. Saying this and that about other methods is a waste of time. Bottom line: I met with my teacher after writing 6k words on an take home with a 2.5k word limit, she said writing a lot is encouraged, so I developed the hell out of my analysis. If she said no 6k is too much, I wouldn't be writing that much.

And since you don't understand, writing an extra 500+ words (a page or two) on one question is not so much that my teacher is going to "skim" it. If it's on point, and I apply law to facts, then I'm doing my job on the exam. Sacrificing policy arguments and not fully developing counterarguments is something I find stupid in favor of writing less. I also make inferences on the facts if something is unclear, and then I make the reverse inference, then come to a conclusion.
Last edited by beach_terror on Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Columbia Law
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby Columbia Law » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:49 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.


LOL enjoy median

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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:51 pm

Columbia Law wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:This whole thread makes me laugh. Do you honestly think that your prof is going to read a 10k (which roughly equals out to like 30 pages double spaced, at least in my exam software)?! Honestly, they are going to skim your work and give you a B+/A- depending on if they see issues/wording they thought of. All of my profs say they like detailed exams to an extent, but there is a limit. My Civ Pro prof specifically says he grades down when he thinks you're rambling and gives a good wordcount for his exams at 2k. I don't really believe the word count hype except for when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. In that case, you may as well just spit out everything you learned during the semester and pray the prof just skims it and gives you the B/B+ for knowing a lot.


LOL enjoy median


I'll be sure to let you know.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby Charles Barkley » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:55 pm

After reading this thread, I don't know what to think. I've written no where near 3k or 10k. I've been around 5k and 6500. :?:

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Ty Webb
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby Ty Webb » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:02 pm

What do I know? I'm a 1L.

My wisdom and knowledge as an intelligent human being tells me that the "Do you really think he's going to read all that?!" argument is utter bullshit.

He's a law professor. It's his job to "read all that." Maybe you're right. Smart money says that your law professor isn't nearly as lazy as you are, though, and he's probably going to "attentively read" even the longest answer.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:05 pm

Ty Webb wrote:What do I know? I'm a 1L.

My wisdom and knowledge as an intelligent human being tells me that the "Do you really think he's going to read all that?!" argument is utter bullshit.

He's a law professor. It's his job to "read all that." Maybe you're right. Smart money says that your law professor isn't nearly as lazy as you are, though, and he's probably going to "attentively read" even the longest answer.


What can I say? Listen to your prof. My practice exam ended up being 4k and my prof went nuts about it. Yeah, thats 4k, I think he would have refused to grade it if it was 10k. I went with the 3-4k answers for all of my exams, we'll see what happens when the grades are out.

bigben
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby bigben » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:05 pm

I had two 3 hour 1L issue spotter exams where I typed <3000 words and got As.

Total Litigator
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:51 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:What do I know? I'm a 1L.

My wisdom and knowledge as an intelligent human being tells me that the "Do you really think he's going to read all that?!" argument is utter bullshit.

He's a law professor. It's his job to "read all that." Maybe you're right. Smart money says that your law professor isn't nearly as lazy as you are, though, and he's probably going to "attentively read" even the longest answer.


What can I say? Listen to your prof. My practice exam ended up being 4k and my prof went nuts about it. Yeah, thats 4k, I think he would have refused to grade it if it was 10k. I went with the 3-4k answers for all of my exams, we'll see what happens when the grades are out.


Maybe because it was a PRACTICE EXAM. Poor guy, tries to do something nice and you write 4000 words...

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zeth006
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby zeth006 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:15 pm

beach_terror wrote:I'm a 1L so what the fuck do I know. My torts teacher would say that more often than not the top grades are typers, so ZERO is probably lolnoutrollin... but I'll agree with a more often than not.

I do have to say, if the exam is really as zero-sum as everyone makes it out to be, I need to thank god that I grew up playing so many computer games.

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JCougar
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Re: If you didn't type 6000+ words on your 3 hours exam you're f

Postby JCougar » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:07 pm

This is what I would be like if I were a professor grading an 8,000-word exam...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

Ok, I'm giving up on this thread now because it's pointless to keep speculating




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