study groups are freaking me out

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goosey
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study groups are freaking me out

Postby goosey » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:00 pm

everyone around me is like crazy study grouping..our TA told us that we should never study alone and always be studying in groups. I have studied alone all semester...I just cant do the study group thing. It seems like such a waste of time. But suddenly, I feel totally screwed.

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NoleinNY
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby NoleinNY » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:09 pm

Eh, I think they're kind of over rated unless you're going over practice tests together, or maybe trying to fill gaps in an outline.

Aqualibrium
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:10 pm

NoleinNY wrote:Eh, I think they're kind of over rated unless you're going over practice tests together, or maybe trying to fill gaps in an outline.



I agree. Practice tests are all that really matter. You cut through the fluff and get right down to it. If you're friendly enough, you should be able to get other people's outlines without being in their group btw...

If I were you, I'd find one like minded loner to do practice exams with.

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bostlaw
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby bostlaw » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:14 pm

ive never really liked study groups...its jsut depends what kind of learner you are, and by now you certainly know if you study better in a group or alone. Only thing I could think of is maybe do a group once to maybe go over info that you never did, ,then go back to studying that new found info yourself.

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beach_terror
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby beach_terror » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:19 pm

On an exam where you get points for analysis and for identifying ambiguities in the facts and arguing both sides, talking over practice problems is a great source of opposing points of view. If you're smart and naturally good at arguing opposite views, then maybe you won't get as much from it. For me, it's been a huge help in prepping so far.

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Talon
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby Talon » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:21 pm

Don't let it freak you out. I studied alone for most classes and did fine. The law is not that difficult to learn; you don't need to regularly study it with others to understand it. Having a buddy to go over practice exams with is useful, but not necessary, especially if model answers are provided.

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goosey
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby goosey » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:24 pm

beach_terror wrote:On an exam where you get points for analysis and for identifying ambiguities in the facts and arguing both sides, talking over practice problems is a great source of opposing points of view. If you're smart and naturally good at arguing opposite views, then maybe you won't get as much from it. For me, it's been a huge help in prepping so far.


doesn't class discussion accomplish this?

I feel like class is all the study group I needed to benefit from other people's insights..but then I just witnessed another study group going through their schedule together and it was like "well friday is our issues day..not saturdays we study alone in the evening and outline in the morning.." and i was like :shock:

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:26 pm

I'm more of a fan of the study buddy vs. the study group. I've never gotten much done in a larger group...3 people tops (including self) seems to be productive. Although, I wayyy prefer studying alone.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:30 pm

Meh, they are overrated. A lot of times its a lot of talking about nothing or arguing about how something works = waste of time. I like studying with one other person, but 95% of my prep has been alone and I feel pretty good about everything so to each their own.

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beach_terror
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby beach_terror » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:30 pm

goosey wrote:
beach_terror wrote:On an exam where you get points for analysis and for identifying ambiguities in the facts and arguing both sides, talking over practice problems is a great source of opposing points of view. If you're smart and naturally good at arguing opposite views, then maybe you won't get as much from it. For me, it's been a huge help in prepping so far.


doesn't class discussion accomplish this?

It depends on the class I suppose. I find that applying the law to new facts raises different problems than encountered in class, and what I think is a strong interpretation of the law actually has more holes than I think.

I'm not saying a good study group is the be all end all, just saying why I think it's valuable.

We also don't have model answers, so discussing with 2-3 friends then going to the teacher to ask questions is the entire process I go through, FWIW

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rdcws000
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby rdcws000 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:45 pm

Under normal circumstances I am not a study group type person. I'm usually pretty confident in my study habits and my dilligence in getting to the right level of understanding on my own.

That being said, Reading LSC this summer placed the idea in my head that I ought to be sniffing around for some study groups, so I put my feelers out and formed a group to study for my last two finals.

We aren't overdoing it, just two meeting before each final, 2-4 hours each. We are going over practice problems, writing essays at home and comparing answers, etc. It has been very very helpful. I have found that I don't spend much time studying things I think I understand completely. My study group sometimes raises doubt about my understanding of certain areas, and when I look into it I was way off. Or in some cases someone brings up something I had somehow let drop completely off my radar.

Anyway, everyone does what's best for them, just putting in my 2 cents as someone who generally does not like studying in a group.

dakatz
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby dakatz » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:47 pm

I don't know what I would have done without my study group. I can see why it wouldn't help some people, but I learn by explaining things out loud and working my way through the nuances with other people. As long as you stay on topic and don't waste time chatting, study group can be very useful. This is especially true for practice exams.

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kswiss
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby kswiss » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:54 pm

It depends a lot on the people too. I've been in groups where there is a dominant person, so if you have nothing to glean from that person, then it's a complete waste of time.

Also, groups aren't very good for actually learning the law. To be of value, everyone already needs to have a decent understanding of the material. Otherwise half the time is spent teaching basic points to people.

For me personally, most groups are more trouble than they're worth. Spending 3 hours taking a practice exam at this point outweighs the benefits of sitting around bouncing ideas off other people. Half the time other people don't know what theyre talking about so they end up infecting everyone's understanding.

To each his/her own.

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JazzOne
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:01 pm

I'd rather read a law review article than listen to one of my classmates blather about something he just learned. It's no disrespect to my classmates. They are incredibly hard working and smart, but they're basically in the same situation I'm in.

Don't worry about study groups. I never studied with anyone fall 1L, and I fucking kicked ass. Then I started studying with a few chaps second semester, and my grades fell. I can't say for sure that's why they fell, but in retrospect, I would have been better off reviewing my outline or taking a practice test.

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:04 pm

goosey wrote:everyone around me is like crazy study grouping..our TA told us that we should never study alone and always be studying in groups. I have studied alone all semester...I just cant do the study group thing. It seems like such a waste of time. But suddenly, I feel totally screwed.


You are absolutely not screwed, I think many times if you are not studying with a very select, hand picked group it can be more detrimental than it can be good. If anything, find someone who you really really trust for next semester and go over stuff with them. But trust me, study groups are not the quintessential key to law school success - I rarely, if ever, use them (and when I do, it is only a select few people).

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OGR3
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby OGR3 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:08 pm

We've got a group of around 8 gunners who will meet on a regular basis in the library study rooms. They're so loud and obnoxious that I can hear them from over 50 feet away. All they do for those 4 hour sessions is pontificate and try to one up each other with their legal brilliance.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:17 pm

JazzOne wrote:I'd rather read a law review article than listen to one of my classmates blather about something he just learned. It's no disrespect to my classmates. They are incredibly hard working and smart, but they're basically in the same situation I'm in.

Don't worry about study groups. I never studied with anyone fall 1L, and I fucking kicked ass. Then I started studying with a few chaps second semester, and my grades fell. I can't say for sure that's why they fell, but in retrospect, I would have been better off reviewing my outline or taking a practice test.


http://xkcd.com/552/

one of my favorite websites. (and i know you caveated but for some reason the post reminded me of that strip lol).

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BriaTharen
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby BriaTharen » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:26 pm

I have a group with two other people that has worked out very well. We take practice tests outside of the "meetings" and then use that time to compare answers. But I can say if we had 1 more person, I feel like we would get off track a lot. Three seems to be the max number, at least to me.

If you do the study group, I think you need to find people who aren't arrogant enough to think they know everything, are happy to ask and answer questions, and are looking to be productive in that time- not socialize, complain about LS/class/professor, etc.

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goosey
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby goosey » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:44 am

JazzOne wrote:I'd rather read a law review article than listen to one of my classmates blather about something he just learned. It's no disrespect to my classmates. They are incredibly hard working and smart, but they're basically in the same situation I'm in.

Don't worry about study groups. I never studied with anyone fall 1L, and I fucking kicked ass. Then I started studying with a few chaps second semester, and my grades fell. I can't say for sure that's why they fell, but in retrospect, I would have been better off reviewing my outline or taking a practice test.



yeah..I don't know if I will get my grades back at the end of the semester and feel like a total moron, but the two times I've gone to review sessions, I come out of there more confused. I usually understand the material on my own--then other people talk about it and suddenly, nothing makes sense.

I guess thats the main reason [and some of the "how to succeed" posts on here] I stayed away from them. But when I see all the study groups around me, I get a little panicky. They seem like they've been working so hard all semester..with 8 brains. I've been working hard all semester with only one.

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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:44 am

goosey wrote:
JazzOne wrote:I'd rather read a law review article than listen to one of my classmates blather about something he just learned. It's no disrespect to my classmates. They are incredibly hard working and smart, but they're basically in the same situation I'm in.

Don't worry about study groups. I never studied with anyone fall 1L, and I fucking kicked ass. Then I started studying with a few chaps second semester, and my grades fell. I can't say for sure that's why they fell, but in retrospect, I would have been better off reviewing my outline or taking a practice test.



yeah..I don't know if I will get my grades back at the end of the semester and feel like a total moron, but the two times I've gone to review sessions, I come out of there more confused. I usually understand the material on my own--then other people talk about it and suddenly, nothing makes sense.

I guess thats the main reason [and some of the "how to succeed" posts on here] I stayed away from them. But when I see all the study groups around me, I get a little panicky. They seem like they've been working so hard all semester..with 8 brains. I've been working hard all semester with only one.


Its likely they just "feel" like they are studying. Even if you don't get the grades you want, it won't be because of a study group. And if you do, or if they do, it won't be because of a study group.

I agree with the wisdom above, groups are good for gaps in outlines and taking exams together - provided that an answer is not given by your prof. If your profs give sample answer then just study alone.

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Grizz
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby Grizz » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:23 am

Me and my buddy made our outlines and study together, asking each other if we have questions. PTs too, obvs. That's it. We're about the same level of smartness, so we fill in where the other doesn't know. Seems to be working out okay. People in bigger study groups seem to 1) be inefficient, 2) freak out, and 3) never know what the hell is going on.

solidsnake
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby solidsnake » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:32 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
If I were you, I'd find one like minded loner to do practice exams with.


Credited. You need ONE other person with whom you can argue and dissect the prof's M.O.. Any prof worth his salt will pick and choose cases and language within cases to advance a particular rubric with which they view that corner of the law. Teaching is advocacy. This fact will inevitably be lost on study groups as the group ends up dumbing down and focusing instead on the common denominator of "black letter." If you sit there outlining and writing black letter with anyone, you are wasting the utility of studying with someone else. You should be looking for a perspective that isn't your own, but limited to the pursuit of figuring out your prof's game. You do this by talking through the psychoanalysis, using the course materials as evidence.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:50 am

kswiss wrote:It depends a lot on the people too. I've been in groups where there is a dominant person, so if you have nothing to glean from that person, then it's a complete waste of time.

Also, groups aren't very good for actually learning the law. To be of value, everyone already needs to have a decent understanding of the material. Otherwise half the time is spent teaching basic points to people.

For me personally, most groups are more trouble than they're worth. Spending 3 hours taking a practice exam at this point outweighs the benefits of sitting around bouncing ideas off other people. Half the time other people don't know what theyre talking about so they end up infecting everyone's understanding.

To each his/her own.

+180.

Someone in a study said something that I was sure was wrong. Then we debated about it for ten minutes. I ended up admitting he was right. Later, went and asked prof- I was right.

I'd rather learn on my own- can't trust others o.O Or maybe thats just cause I'm a psycho. Who knows?

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:56 am

Most I've been to are huge time sinks.

I study alone, w/ excellent results. IMO forcing yourself to learn the material and struggle with it is the best way to hone your understanding.

I also sit and think a lot. I don't usually type it out, but I'll just sit quietly and think about how an issue I just learned could be elicited on an exam. Makes issue spotting a breeze.

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gwuorbust
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Re: study groups are freaking me out

Postby gwuorbust » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:18 am

ITT: TLS shows why lawyers are not team players.

I have my three man study group. We meet for about 6/7 hours every day. BUT we do 90% of the work silently, working through PTs. It just helps each of us to be motivated and not dick around when someone else is there.

and as for the study groups that never stop talking/chatting/dicking-around, lmfao.




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