lawyers and social/personal life?

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redgreenpaper
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lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:28 pm

what is the typical work time of a lawyer every day? people tell me its suicidal like 9am to 10pm but i dont really believe it. also, do lawyers get to have weekends and vacation?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:37 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:what is the typical work time of a lawyer every day? people tell me its suicidal like 9am to 10pm but i dont really believe it. also, do lawyers get to have weekends and vacation?


You basically only work a couple hours a day. And most of that time you'll just be messing around on facebook and stuff. You'll have every weekend off and plenty of vacation. The people trying to tell you otherwise are just trying to keep you out of their biglaw clubhouse because it's so awesome

Tsispilos
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby Tsispilos » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:41 pm

biglaw in big city (e.g., $160k in nyc, dc)-->think of 60 hour week as the norm, with occasional peaks of up to 80 or 100 hour weeks

biglaw in smaller big city ($e.g., 135k in atl, seattle, etc) --> probably more like 50 hour norm with peaks around 75-90 hours.

midlaw in medium city ($90k in birmingham, rochester) --> probably pretty similar to big law in smaller big city.

small law in big city ($50k in nyc)-->probably same as big law in big city.

small law in small town ($50k in assfuck, iowa or cunnilingus, maine)--> probably like 45-55 hours a week.

government --> 40 hours/week

Renzo
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby Renzo » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:13 pm

In NYC the "standard" biglaw workday is roughly 9:30am to 8:00pm, and if something big comes in you can expect to stay late (very late--like all night--in some cases).

In general, it's not the hours per se that really crush people's souls in biglaw; it's the unpredictability. You might sit around most of the day with not much to do, then at 7:00, right before you head out for a big first date to go see a movie you're really excited about, a deal drops and you'll be there all night. Oh, and that vacation you've been planning for 6 months? They just scheduled a motions hearing, so you'll need to cancel because we'll need you here.

Baylan
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby Baylan » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:56 pm

Renzo wrote:In NYC the "standard" biglaw workday is roughly 9:30am to 8:00pm, and if something big comes in you can expect to stay late (very late--like all night--in some cases).

In general, it's not the hours per se that really crush people's souls in biglaw; it's the unpredictability. You might sit around most of the day with not much to do, then at 7:00, right before you head out for a big first date to go see a movie you're really excited about, a deal drops and you'll be there all night. Oh, and that vacation you've been planning for 6 months? They just scheduled a motions hearing, so you'll need to cancel because we'll need you here.


My 1L procrastinating butt feels like TITCR.

The hours aren't that crazy. Not when you realize you're getting paid 160k at age 25-30 for your first year, not including bonus or anything else. You're making more in 6 months than the average family's median income over the course of a year. You think its gonna be easy? I have never, and will never understand how people think that you can make that kind of money and NOT have crazy hours.

redgreenpaper
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:58 pm

Renzo wrote:In NYC the "standard" biglaw workday is roughly 9:30am to 8:00pm, and if something big comes in you can expect to stay late (very late--like all night--in some cases).

In general, it's not the hours per se that really crush people's souls in biglaw; it's the unpredictability. You might sit around most of the day with not much to do, then at 7:00, right before you head out for a big first date to go see a movie you're really excited about, a deal drops and you'll be there all night. Oh, and that vacation you've been planning for 6 months? They just scheduled a motions hearing, so you'll need to cancel because we'll need you here.


shit... and i assume its the same for weekends...

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SmittenMitten
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby SmittenMitten » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:56 pm

Baylan wrote:
Renzo wrote:In NYC the "standard" biglaw workday is roughly 9:30am to 8:00pm, and if something big comes in you can expect to stay late (very late--like all night--in some cases).

In general, it's not the hours per se that really crush people's souls in biglaw; it's the unpredictability. You might sit around most of the day with not much to do, then at 7:00, right before you head out for a big first date to go see a movie you're really excited about, a deal drops and you'll be there all night. Oh, and that vacation you've been planning for 6 months? They just scheduled a motions hearing, so you'll need to cancel because we'll need you here.


My 1L procrastinating butt feels like TITCR.

The hours aren't that crazy. Not when you realize you're getting paid 160k at age 25-30 for your first year, not including bonus or anything else. You're making more in 6 months than the average family's median income over the course of a year. You think its gonna be easy? I have never, and will never understand how people think that you can make that kind of money and NOT have crazy hours.


I had this "lifestyle" with my old job (obviously not as a biglaw associate) and made less than 1/4th of the starting market rate. I pretty much prayed each night that I would die in my sleep, but then again, I made less than 40k.

redgreenpaper
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:02 pm

Baylan wrote:
Renzo wrote:In NYC the "standard" biglaw workday is roughly 9:30am to 8:00pm, and if something big comes in you can expect to stay late (very late--like all night--in some cases).

In general, it's not the hours per se that really crush people's souls in biglaw; it's the unpredictability. You might sit around most of the day with not much to do, then at 7:00, right before you head out for a big first date to go see a movie you're really excited about, a deal drops and you'll be there all night. Oh, and that vacation you've been planning for 6 months? They just scheduled a motions hearing, so you'll need to cancel because we'll need you here.


My 1L procrastinating butt feels like TITCR.

The hours aren't that crazy. Not when you realize you're getting paid 160k at age 25-30 for your first year, not including bonus or anything else. You're making more in 6 months than the average family's median income over the course of a year. You think its gonna be easy? I have never, and will never understand how people think that you can make that kind of money and NOT have crazy hours.


i personally would settle for less and still be able to go out with friends and play call of duty but to each his own.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:22 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:
Baylan wrote:
Renzo wrote:In NYC the "standard" biglaw workday is roughly 9:30am to 8:00pm, and if something big comes in you can expect to stay late (very late--like all night--in some cases).

In general, it's not the hours per se that really crush people's souls in biglaw; it's the unpredictability. You might sit around most of the day with not much to do, then at 7:00, right before you head out for a big first date to go see a movie you're really excited about, a deal drops and you'll be there all night. Oh, and that vacation you've been planning for 6 months? They just scheduled a motions hearing, so you'll need to cancel because we'll need you here.


My 1L procrastinating butt feels like TITCR.

The hours aren't that crazy. Not when you realize you're getting paid 160k at age 25-30 for your first year, not including bonus or anything else. You're making more in 6 months than the average family's median income over the course of a year. You think its gonna be easy? I have never, and will never understand how people think that you can make that kind of money and NOT have crazy hours.


i personally would settle for less and still be able to go out with friends and play call of duty but to each his own.


pretty sure there's at least one firm that's implemented a dual-track system where you can work as an "associate" (who has no partnership prospects) and make 80k instead of 160k and basically keep "normal" hours. like a contract attorney but you are "really employed" by the firm. [slip and fall]. Man I really need to stop air-quoting when I drink.

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SmittenMitten
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby SmittenMitten » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:26 pm

With 80 hours of work a week-it may still be possible to go out with friends. It should definitely be possible to play call of duty. What I think is hard-to-impossible is having a stable/normal relationship/holidays/vacations/children.

redgreenpaper
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:15 pm

SmittenMitten wrote:With 80 hours of work a week-it may still be possible to go out with friends. It should definitely be possible to play call of duty. What I think is hard-to-impossible is having a stable/normal relationship/holidays/vacations/children.


ya true about call of duty but i honestly cant see how u can still go out with friends

MissLucky
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby MissLucky » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:20 pm

tagged

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SmittenMitten
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby SmittenMitten » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:25 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:With 80 hours of work a week-it may still be possible to go out with friends. It should definitely be possible to play call of duty. What I think is hard-to-impossible is having a stable/normal relationship/holidays/vacations/children.


ya true about call of duty but i honestly cant see how u can still go out with friends



It can be done. If you really want to see your friends- you find a way. Even at the sacrifice of sleep-or meeting them after dinner so you can drink and try to forget that you just worked 13 hours and have to be back at the office to do shit in 5 hours. It sucks, don't get me wrong

redgreenpaper
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:31 pm

SmittenMitten wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:With 80 hours of work a week-it may still be possible to go out with friends. It should definitely be possible to play call of duty. What I think is hard-to-impossible is having a stable/normal relationship/holidays/vacations/children.


ya true about call of duty but i honestly cant see how u can still go out with friends



It can be done. If you really want to see your friends- you find a way. Even at the sacrifice of sleep-or meeting them after dinner so you can drink and try to forget that you just worked 13 hours and have to be back at the office to do shit in 5 hours. It sucks, don't get me wrong


so is it common for lawyers to work 13 hours every day until retirement, thus leaving no time for relationships and stuff?

WayBryson
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby WayBryson » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:33 pm

Hmmmmmm. This sounds exactly like the schedule I had when I was working construction.

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SmittenMitten
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby SmittenMitten » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:36 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:With 80 hours of work a week-it may still be possible to go out with friends. It should definitely be possible to play call of duty. What I think is hard-to-impossible is having a stable/normal relationship/holidays/vacations/children.


ya true about call of duty but i honestly cant see how u can still go out with friends



It can be done. If you really want to see your friends- you find a way. Even at the sacrifice of sleep-or meeting them after dinner so you can drink and try to forget that you just worked 13 hours and have to be back at the office to do shit in 5 hours. It sucks, don't get me wrong


so is it common for lawyers to work 13 hours every day until retirement, thus leaving no time for relationships and stuff?


I mean, I can't speak to a specific lawyers schedule- I can just tell you that I've worked between 50-100 hour weeks, including being on call-and I don't know how I could have done that and had children, or been involved in a just-starting relationship. I had a relationship during that time-but it was damaged by me having to walk out of nice dinner-dates to leave and do work...and being totally exhausted every single day.

Not all lawyers work biglaw, and not all biglaw lawyers work biglaw until retirement. This is just my knowledge of a real crappy work schedule.

redgreenpaper
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:41 pm

I mean, I can't speak to a specific lawyers schedule- I can just tell you that I've worked between 50-100 hour weeks, including being on call-and I don't know how I could have done that and had children, or been involved in a just-starting relationship. I had a relationship during that time-but it was damaged by me having to walk out of nice dinner-dates to leave and do work...and being totally exhausted every single day.

Not all lawyers work biglaw, and not all biglaw lawyers work biglaw until retirement. This is just my knowledge of a real crappy work schedule.[/quote]

do you know anything about vacation times?

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SmittenMitten
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby SmittenMitten » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:45 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:I mean, I can't speak to a specific lawyers schedule- I can just tell you that I've worked between 50-100 hour weeks, including being on call-and I don't know how I could have done that and had children, or been involved in a just-starting relationship. I had a relationship during that time-but it was damaged by me having to walk out of nice dinner-dates to leave and do work...and being totally exhausted every single day.

Not all lawyers work biglaw, and not all biglaw lawyers work biglaw until retirement. This is just my knowledge of a real crappy work schedule.


do you know anything about vacation times?[/quote]

Not for biglaw-however if the search function is working-I would search for threads in the "legal employment" section, where a Biglaw lawyer has taken questions regarding his lifestyle, pay, work, etc. I believe a couple of them have done this, and their threads are always really informative. If search is not working-go to the employment forum and go back a couple of pages and look for it. It is something like "Biglaw associate taking questions" I believe he broaches the topics discussed here-including vacation time.

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northwood
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:49 pm

i have worked unpredictable schedules, 60+ hours a week for the past 5 years or so. There will be a routine to it, and you will have to adjust. While I wasnt in law, there was some getting used to it. If you dont work on your relationships, and try to schedule some exercise time ( find a 24 hour gym) it will take its toll. If you do work on them, and the people in your life understand that you arent japping out last second, or they have become a fall back plan if better things come up, but you HAVE to do this, it will make things easier. I think it will be tougher for those who have not worked these types of hours. Sure a set schedule is nice, but I have a feeling 9-7 M-F work weeks are becoming a thing of the past.

You will find that there are a lot more people who have to work these types of schedules. Although I would not say leave your old friends, it definately helps if you make some friends who work similar schedules as you.

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AreJay711
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:52 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:
I mean, I can't speak to a specific lawyers schedule- I can just tell you that I've worked between 50-100 hour weeks, including being on call-and I don't know how I could have done that and had children, or been involved in a just-starting relationship. I had a relationship during that time-but it was damaged by me having to walk out of nice dinner-dates to leave and do work...and being totally exhausted every single day.

Not all lawyers work biglaw, and not all biglaw lawyers work biglaw until retirement. This is just my knowledge of a real crappy work schedule.


do you know anything about vacation times?


Vacation time? You want vacation time go teach third grade public school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvICN8DN ... re=related

<you know, except for the millionaire part>

HamDel
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby HamDel » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:59 pm

Regarding predictability of hours, it also depends on who your clients are. If you represent big banks, expect to be at the office at some crazy hours. You will be woken up in the middle of the night, and you will sometimes have to spend multiple nights in a row at the office. You'll get a couple hours at home during these stints, but you'll primarily be stuck at work.

If your clients have more predictable deal flow, you will at least be able to somewhat anticipate when things are going to get crazy. Some types of finance generally take weekends off, and if those are your clients you are more likely to get more weekends off as well.

redgreenpaper
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby redgreenpaper » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:01 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:
I mean, I can't speak to a specific lawyers schedule- I can just tell you that I've worked between 50-100 hour weeks, including being on call-and I don't know how I could have done that and had children, or been involved in a just-starting relationship. I had a relationship during that time-but it was damaged by me having to walk out of nice dinner-dates to leave and do work...and being totally exhausted every single day.

Not all lawyers work biglaw, and not all biglaw lawyers work biglaw until retirement. This is just my knowledge of a real crappy work schedule.


do you know anything about vacation times?


Vacation time? You want vacation time go teach third grade public school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvICN8DN ... re=related

<you know, except for the millionaire part>


dam i think im a piker

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Fast_Fingers
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby Fast_Fingers » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:34 pm

A significant portion depends on whether you are doing litigation (where the big hours/time is invested) or transactional work (which is still a lot of time, but has a bit more predictability/repetition). And of course, the field you're working in, your clients, and the size of the firm. My contracts professor, having done both, consistently is persuading us to consider the latter.

Renzo
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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby Renzo » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:45 pm

Fast_Fingers wrote:A significant portion depends on whether you are doing litigation (where the big hours/time is invested) or transactional work (which is still a lot of time, but has a bit more predictability/repetition). And of course, the field you're working in, your clients, and the size of the firm. My contracts professor, having done both, consistently is persuading us to consider the latter.

This is flat crazy. You can't say "transactional" work is all more predictable, because that encompasses a broad array of very different practices. M&A is one of (if not the) most sporadic practice areas there is. Broker/dealer work and tax, for example, are probably about as predictable as you can get.

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Re: lawyers and social/personal life?

Postby dsap45 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:47 am





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