Pre-Written Answers

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christmas mouse
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby christmas mouse » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:45 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
dougroberts wrote:Except outlines are usually not full sentences or thoughts, but fragments and short rules. I'm talking about a full paragraph stating the rule from, say, a statute and then a case backing it up. Then, when this topic comes up on the exam (which you know it will if it is an important one), then you just copy/paste it in (or retype it in), then next paragraph would be a more specific rule if there is, and then apply/conclusion.


I don't get why you need a paragraph explaining a rule and where it comes from. The statement of a rule should take a sentence. An exam is won and lost in the application, not in the rule statement. Remember, an exam cares less about the origin of a rule and more about the application of the rule. This isn't a legal brief/memo.


This seems to be the general good advice in exam taking butit really doesn't always seem to apply. For civ pro our prof gave us last years sample A answer and the majority of the paper was long rule paragraphs and policy behind them. For this class I've written out t
Nice big rule statements in a similar way as the sample A answer ad plan on just copying the general rule attempts word for word from my outline and spending the brunt of my thinking on a really good application of said rule to the facts.

I mean is it really feasible to state the rule for SMJ in one sentence?

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vamedic03
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:58 pm

christmas mouse wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
dougroberts wrote:Except outlines are usually not full sentences or thoughts, but fragments and short rules. I'm talking about a full paragraph stating the rule from, say, a statute and then a case backing it up. Then, when this topic comes up on the exam (which you know it will if it is an important one), then you just copy/paste it in (or retype it in), then next paragraph would be a more specific rule if there is, and then apply/conclusion.


I don't get why you need a paragraph explaining a rule and where it comes from. The statement of a rule should take a sentence. An exam is won and lost in the application, not in the rule statement. Remember, an exam cares less about the origin of a rule and more about the application of the rule. This isn't a legal brief/memo.


This seems to be the general good advice in exam taking butit really doesn't always seem to apply. For civ pro our prof gave us last years sample A answer and the majority of the paper was long rule paragraphs and policy behind them. For this class I've written out t
Nice big rule statements in a similar way as the sample A answer ad plan on just copying the general rule attempts word for word from my outline and spending the brunt of my thinking on a really good application of said rule to the facts.

I mean is it really feasible to state the rule for SMJ in one sentence?


Yes. To the extent that you're going to apply it. The application is what's important.

joshlyman
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby joshlyman » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:07 pm

I think this helps a lot, and yes I completely agree that applying the law to the facts is where the exam is won or lost.

that being said, civ pro has so much doctrinal explanation when it comes to pj and erie and to an extent smj that I just decided
ok, if my rule statement should be the same every time im confronted with the issue, then why not take the time to write a well worded and succinct rule paragraph for each of these situations. Ive edited them a zillion times and used them on all practice exams my prof has and they work pretty well. Its just something i dont want to worry about come test time. I have one 90 min essay question and 25 MC and realistically you can game what issues are most likely to be present in a 90 min essay (smj,pj,erie).

If anything, having a fully written rule paragraph guides your application and makes sure youre not leaving anything out.

just my two cents

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gwuorbust
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:08 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
christmas mouse wrote:This seems to be the general good advice in exam taking butit really doesn't always seem to apply. For civ pro our prof gave us last years sample A answer and the majority of the paper was long rule paragraphs and policy behind them. For this class I've written out t
Nice big rule statements in a similar way as the sample A answer ad plan on just copying the general rule attempts word for word from my outline and spending the brunt of my thinking on a really good application of said rule to the facts.

I mean is it really feasible to state the rule for SMJ in one sentence?


Yes. To the extent that you're going to apply it. The application is what's important.


wrong advice is wrong. I am usually the first one to jump up and cheer for application. Applying fact to law. BUT in instances where your Prof is giving points for statement of rules, then that is what you want to do. Number 1 rule of LS, IMO, is do what your professor wants you to do.

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Sogui
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby Sogui » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:24 pm

I honestly find that it hinges on the quality of your professor:

God-tier: I do not want rule summarizations, you will not be getting paid 6-figures to parrot for clients what I can find in 3 seconds on Google. Show me how you can use that brain of yours to give me analysis and reasoning for this gray area of law.

Shit-tier: Yup close book, please summarize all the rules for me, I need to understand that you've been paying attention all year and how could I do that with an open book test?

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vamedic03
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:17 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
christmas mouse wrote:This seems to be the general good advice in exam taking butit really doesn't always seem to apply. For civ pro our prof gave us last years sample A answer and the majority of the paper was long rule paragraphs and policy behind them. For this class I've written out t
Nice big rule statements in a similar way as the sample A answer ad plan on just copying the general rule attempts word for word from my outline and spending the brunt of my thinking on a really good application of said rule to the facts.

I mean is it really feasible to state the rule for SMJ in one sentence?


Yes. To the extent that you're going to apply it. The application is what's important.


wrong advice is wrong. I am usually the first one to jump up and cheer for application. Applying fact to law. BUT in instances where your Prof is giving points for statement of rules, then that is what you want to do. Number 1 rule of LS, IMO, is do what your professor wants you to do.


I was answering the question asked; i.e., whether its feasible to state the rule for SMJ in one sentence.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby Anonymous Loser » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:47 pm

Sogui wrote:I honestly find that it hinges on the quality of your professor:

God-tier: I do not want rule summarizations, you will not be getting paid 6-figures to parrot for clients what I can find in 3 seconds on Google. Show me how you can use that brain of yours to give me analysis and reasoning for this gray area of law.

Shit-tier: Yup close book, please summarize all the rules for me, I need to understand that you've been paying attention all year and how could I do that with an open book test?


Have you ever taken a law school exam?

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servinDizzert
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby servinDizzert » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:51 pm

Does anyone have any for K? Trying to do this from old model answers but it's not turning out so hot.

prof wont give out past exams but she said 10 questions for 2.5 hours....that doesnt seem like enough time at all = NEED model answers

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Sogui
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby Sogui » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:54 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote:
Sogui wrote:I honestly find that it hinges on the quality of your professor:

God-tier: I do not want rule summarizations, you will not be getting paid 6-figures to parrot for clients what I can find in 3 seconds on Google. Show me how you can use that brain of yours to give me analysis and reasoning for this gray area of law.

Shit-tier: Yup close book, please summarize all the rules for me, I need to understand that you've been paying attention all year and how could I do that with an open book test?


Have you ever taken a law school exam?


Afraid not. Just summarizing the two ends of the spectrum and how I feel about their approaches. Things may change with experience, they always do. But I'd rather sit down, after mastering the basic contours of the law, and have 8 hours to type 3000 words with full internet access, all my notes and outlines, and 4 days of practice using his model answers. Basically we're given every bit of ammunition we could ever need to score an A and it's left to us to show who can really reason through a difficult pair of contract hypos.

I'd rather do that than anything that requires "pre-written" answers.

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Unitas
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby Unitas » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:59 pm

It should be noted some schools have a rule that text is not allowed to be copied into the exam... Mine does.

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inchoate_con
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby inchoate_con » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:11 pm

Sogui wrote:
Anonymous Loser wrote:
Sogui wrote:I honestly find that it hinges on the quality of your professor:

God-tier: I do not want rule summarizations, you will not be getting paid 6-figures to parrot for clients what I can find in 3 seconds on Google. Show me how you can use that brain of yours to give me analysis and reasoning for this gray area of law.

Shit-tier: Yup close book, please summarize all the rules for me, I need to understand that you've been paying attention all year and how could I do that with an open book test?


Have you ever taken a law school exam?


Afraid not. Just summarizing the two ends of the spectrum and how I feel about their approaches. Things may change with experience, they always do. But I'd rather sit down, after mastering the basic contours of the law, and have 8 hours to type 3000 words with full internet access, all my notes and outlines, and 4 days of practice using his model answers. Basically we're given every bit of ammunition we could ever need to score an A and it's left to us to show who can really reason through a difficult pair of contract hypos.

I'd rather do that than anything that requires "pre-written" answers.

Just when I think I've seen it all....

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BriaTharen
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby BriaTharen » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:20 pm

Reviewing "Attack Plans" for IPJ, SMJ, and Venue right now. That's about as "pre-written" as I go.

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Talon
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Re: Pre-Written Answers

Postby Talon » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:32 pm

I would never write out an entire answer, but I've definitely planned statements in advance, using bullet points for each point I hope to hit. I think these are useful in two situations. First, on "thematic" questions, you can pretty much narrow down a course to a handful of themes, and plan answers tailored towards discussing each theme. Second, on subjects that you will likely have to address that are not fact-dependent, planning an answer in advance will help you come up with a much stronger argument. For example, on a Constitutional Law exam there's a good chance you'll have to decide what level of scrutiny you expect homosexuals will receive, so if you've already planned out the arguments for and against each level and what you think the court will hold, you can quickly produce an answer that will probably be better than most.




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