system of estates hypo...

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uzpakalis
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system of estates hypo...

Postby uzpakalis » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:59 pm

O conveys - my farm to A for life, upon A's death, to A's children for their lives, and upon the death of A's children, to my grandchildren.

O dies
A has no children
O has two children, B and C
B has no children
C has one child, E
everyone besides O is presently alive

explain...
Last edited by uzpakalis on Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:08 pm

This is kind of a pointless hypo: A has a life estate, and is still living. Presumably, A can still have children, C can still have a grandchild, and E can die, all before A's interest is conlcuded.

If the point of this hypo is to spot RAP problems, then I suppose it makes a little more sense, as the conveyance to O's grandchildren violates RAP (O to A > A has a child, B > everyone but B dies > 21 years pass > conveyance to grandchildren vests/fails).

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uzpakalis
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby uzpakalis » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:16 pm

I tend to agree with betasteve, although I don't exactly know why. Are you saying that A's children do not have a contingent remainder? Also, does it not matter that A could have a child, since O is dead, and the only grandchildren he would have are from B and C?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby Kilpatrick » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:20 pm

Who is D?

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uzpakalis
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby uzpakalis » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:26 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:Who is D?


Edited, thank you.

Renzo
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby Renzo » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:50 pm

Betasteve's right. Vested subject to open is not the same as unvested, so there are no contingent remainders, and no RAP problem.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:45 pm

:oops: Beta is correct. It was the fact that the grandkid's remainder was subject to open at the time of the conveyance that was tripping me up.

I apparently forgot everything I knew about property the moment I walked out of the exam. I can't believe I am going to have to relearn this nonsense; maybe I'll get lucky and my state will get rid of its half-assed statutorily modified version of the RAP by the time I sit for the bar exam.

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uzpakalis
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Re: system of estates hypo...

Postby uzpakalis » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:58 pm

betasteve wrote:
uzpakalis wrote:I tend to agree with betasteve, although I don't exactly know why. Are you saying that A's children do not have a contingent remainder? Also, does it not matter that A could have a child, since O is dead, and the only grandchildren he would have are from B and C?

A has life estate
A's children have a contingent remainder in a life estate (since there is no person alive at time of transfer). This doesn't violate rap because A is measuring life. This is one of the odd situations where there isn't a technical contingent remainder after a contingent remainder, since A's kids have a LE, not a fee.
O's grandchildren have a vested remainder subject to open in a fee simple absolute. RAP is going to look, because the class needs to close for full vesting. But with B&C alive, and O dead - the class will close at B & C's death, so it doesn't violate rap using B&C as the measuring life.


Thank you for clarifying, I'm glad that I'm thinking along the same lines...




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