Honor Code Violations

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grrrstick
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Honor Code Violations

Postby grrrstick » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:49 pm

Overheard two students today collaborating on our open memo. I'm not going to snitch; they clearly had fallen into a trap issue, and have probably consigned themselves to below median anyway. Just curious, how common do you think cheating is? On the memo? On exams?

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joobacca
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby joobacca » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:55 pm

grrrstick wrote:Overheard two students today collaborating on our open memo. I'm not going to snitch; they clearly had fallen into a trap issue, and have probably consigned themselves to below median anyway. Just curious, how common do you think cheating is? On the memo? On exams?

i'd think that cheating on an exam is rare. it's kind of hard, and sometimes not very useful. either the shit is in your head and you're ready to go as soon as time is called, or you don't, unless you can somehow get the exam questions beforehand (which i would think is nearly impossible). on memos, i would think it'd be more common, but law students (especially 1Ls) are pretty paranoid so heavy collaboration is probably unlikely.

you can't talk about the memo at all? i might have pointed out to those kids that they had fallen for a "trap issue." not saying that's the right thing.

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Tree
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby Tree » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:00 pm

It definately happens.

Here, at Michigan, I heard of a student getting recycled multiple choice questions for a visiting professor in advance of the exam. The professor refused to change the questions, apparently, but that's as far as it went the way I understand it. Not hard to believe . . . BIGLAW money!!

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AreJay711
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:10 pm

Idk the policy where you go but it can actually be against the honor code to know someone is cheating and not doing anything about it so I wouldn't say too much about it IRL. Then again, I've never known anyone to actually get in trouble over it.... * Paranoidly looks over his shoulder*...but still.

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blerg
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby blerg » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:10 pm

I've heard so much open memo talk I actually hide in the library to avoid it.

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grrrstick
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby grrrstick » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:15 pm

AreJay711 wrote:Idk the policy where you go but it can actually be against the honor code to know someone is cheating and not doing anything about it so I wouldn't say too much about it IRL. Then again, I've never known anyone to actually get in trouble over it.... * Paranoidly looks over his shoulder*...but still.


That is the policy here. What I overheard was very suspicious, but not so plain as to be absolutely cheating. I wouldn't risk falsely accusing someone.

I'm like you, I'm so paranoid I avoid even telling people that I have started working on it.

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kalvano
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby kalvano » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:18 pm

When you say collaborating, do you mean saying broad and specific generalities - "God, researching a multi-issue memo sucks."

Or do you mean "I found these cases, you should go look for this one, that one, and that one."

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stocksly33
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby stocksly33 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:31 pm

We're not allowed to have anyone proof our memo... I wonder how many people abide by that.

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kalvano
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby kalvano » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:34 pm

stocksly33 wrote:We're not allowed to have anyone proof our memo... I wonder how many people abide by that.


We aren't allowed to discuss content with anyone, or share notes, research, anything like that. I understand with other students, but I'm not supposed to tell my wife what I am working on all these hours at home?

Stupid.

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grrrstick
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby grrrstick » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:38 pm

kalvano wrote:
stocksly33 wrote:We're not allowed to have anyone proof our memo... I wonder how many people abide by that.


We aren't allowed to discuss content with anyone, or share notes, research, anything like that. I understand with other students, but I'm not supposed to tell my wife what I am working on all these hours at home?

Stupid.


Yeah, as if I could get my wife to double-check my cites.

Melkaba
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby Melkaba » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:44 pm

Huh. How far did the collaboration go? Because at our school, we can at least discuss our memos with fellow students (including theories, approaches, and references to authority in a casual conversation), but we at least still have to do the researching personally and we cannot consult any one higher than 1L students. We can also have non-law related people proof memos, but that will never really be all that helpful (especially since the professor goes over most of our drafts and/or common issues with us).

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mmmadeli
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby mmmadeli » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:25 pm

We're allowed (and encouraged) to do everything short of write it together. We also had two class sessions devoted to talking through any problems and questions that may have come up with tests, sources, etc -- our professor answered some questions outright and facilitated discussion on the others. It seems like they've decided it would be impossible to keep us from talking about it, so they've embraced the fact that we will and are running with it. We're not supposed to talk to people outside our section, though, and people seem to be generally adhering to that (though the reason they gave us is because every professor has given their section slightly different guidelines and presented things in slightly different ways, and the professors don't want us to hear things through the grapevine that other professors said and freak out because it's different from what our professor said, so it seems to be a rule more for our benefit than for academic integrity).

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jdubb990
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby jdubb990 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:22 am

Is it an honor code violation to call an attorney in the jurisdiction where the fact pattern of your memo is taking place and ask him how the issue will be decided?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Honor Code Violations

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:27 am

All part of the game. I dont really see anything wrong with it, especially when its usually P/F or at least not curved. Your snitching will likely have no evidence and will make you blacklisted as "that guy". If this was an exam I would be totally with you, but on the ORM I don't really agree.




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