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My civ pro outline is 30 pages and I am about a week behind in outlining...once I catch up it will probably be around 34 pages. We have an entire month of class to go...I'm a little concerned about the length

any tips on condensing it down? I hardly have any cases in there

I'd ideally like to memorize it off of flashcards but the thought of creating flashcards for a 50-60 pg outline is a bit horrifying

Civ Pro will probably be your longest outline. I am a fairly concise notetaker, almost to a fault according to a lot of my friends. I have about twice as many notes in Civ Pro as in any other class. There are just a lot of rules. Additionally, if your professor wants to to memorize/use actual FRCP numbers and language, it will be even more difficult.

However, remember that you don't need every rule ever introduced to be in your outline. You want your outline to jog your memory -- if it's been drilled into your head that "diversity jurisdiction requires complete diversity under 1332 (Strawbridge v. Curtiss)," don't put it in your condensed outline.

You don't need to know the exactitudes of every piece of BLL to do well on an exam. You just need to get yourself thinking in the right direction so you can (cliche to follow) "apply law to fact."

GeePee wrote:Civ Pro will probably be your longest outline. There are just a lot of rules. Additionally, if your professor wants to to memorize/use actual FRCP numbers and language, it will be even more difficult.

However, remember that you don't need every rule ever introduced to be in your outline. You want your outline to jog your memory -- if it's been drilled into your head that "diversity jurisdiction requires complete diversity under 1332 (Strawbridge v. Curtiss)," don't put it in your condensed outline.

You don't need to know the exactitudes of every piece of BLL to do well on an exam. You just need to get yourself thinking in the right direction so you can (cliche to follow) "apply law to fact."

I actually have an entirely different table for rules--my outline has rule numbers next to the topic and a few specifics he mentioned about the rule...I guess I feel better knowing it will be the longest one. Crim is like 17 pages and torts is 24 rt now.

One thing I noticed whn taking my crim midterm is that tables are FAR more useful than an outline. I literally had the info at my fingertips instead of sifting through pages of an outline. I got the skeleton from the table and then used the outline to make sure I wasn't missing any nuances. Considering doing this for my civ pro outline as well, but not sure how well it will work for this material (aside from the rules themselves, which I already have in table form)

GeePee wrote:Civ Pro will probably be your longest outline. I am a fairly concise notetaker, almost to a fault according to a lot of my friends. I have about twice as many notes in Civ Pro as in any other class. There are just a lot of rules. Additionally, if your professor wants to to memorize/use actual FRCP numbers and language, it will be even more difficult.

However, remember that you don't need every rule ever introduced to be in your outline. You want your outline to jog your memory -- if it's been drilled into your head that "diversity jurisdiction requires complete diversity under 1332 (Strawbridge v. Curtiss)," don't put it in your condensed outline.

You don't need to know the exactitudes of every piece of BLL to do well on an exam. You just need to get yourself thinking in the right direction so you can (cliche to follow) "apply law to fact."

GEEPEE!!!! How ARE you??? (Goosey my lovely friend, I can't comment on CivPro b/c I don't have it this semester, but my K's outline is looking a bit unwieldy and my Crim outline is looking barren. I'm not too worried: will start looking at past outlines soon and am also going to start doing a question or two from past exams next week, to see how well my outlines are working for me and where I need to adapt them. When are you coming to visit meeeeeee??)

Not planning on taking my outlines past 15 pages. My Civ Pro prof wants us to detail every single case we ever learned including both dissents and concurring opinions. That will likely be more, and I am contiplating a rules chart but dont know if it will take longer. All other subjects are coming along to be around 15. I would go through your outlines and look to see if you ever went into explaining rules/reasoning for rules/ other time wasters and cut them out. When revising y outlines I found that I had some language that could be cut down and a few things that were simply unnecessary because they were either common sense or likely wouldnt be tested on.

My CivPro outline is only 15 pages right now. We've gone through personal jurisdiction, federal subject matter, removal, supplemental, and venue. We're not focusing on the FRCP though. Pretty sure this coming week is choice of law and Erie

beach_terror wrote:My CivPro outline is only 15 pages right now. We've gone through personal jurisdiction, federal subject matter, removal, supplemental, and venue. We're not focusing on the FRCP though. Pretty sure this coming week is choice of law and Erie

You guys need to buy your prof a cake or something, if it wasnt for the FRCP and we did just cases alone I would feel confident for the final. The FRCP is a little ridiculous at times.

nygrrrl wrote:
GEEPEE!!!! How ARE you??? (Goosey my lovely friend, I can't comment on CivPro b/c I don't have it this semester, but my K's outline is looking a bit unwieldy and my Crim outline is looking barren. I'm not too worried: will start looking at past outlines soon and am also going to start doing a question or two from past exams next week, to see how well my outlines are working for me and where I need to adapt them. When are you coming to visit meeeeeee??)

HIII!!!

im good how are you?! hows 1L going for you?

I am going to start practice exams for real this upcoming week...thus far I tried a torts exam and FAILED horribly. I really needed to get my outline in order first, so thats what I will do this weekend and then start the practice, roughly one a week per class.

We should get together after finals. my last final is on dec 21st, yours?

2L here. haven't even started outlining XD

Should we have outlines almost done already?

swc65 wrote:Should we have outlines almost done already?

considering that there is about a month left of school I think that is kindof impossible. but they should be complete up to the material that you have covered up to this point.

beach_terror wrote:My CivPro outline is only 15 pages right now. We've gone through personal jurisdiction, federal subject matter, removal, supplemental, and venue. We're not focusing on the FRCP though. Pretty sure this coming week is choice of law and Erie

Say hello to the FRCP. There is where it starts to crop up. I also thought my class was FRCP light until we hit Erie. Gets worse if you're doing pleadings.

Outline length doesn't matter. If you're counting on your outline to carry you through the exam, you're preparing the wrong way, in my opinion. The outline, however long it is, should simply consist of everything you need to know about the subject. You should (a) read it a few times to internalize everything it contains, and (b) use it to make a few pages of checklists and flowcharts to refer to frequently during the exam.

Just started outlining this week, about 1/2 through one class.

traehekat wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbThUukchws

That's still funny every time.

I just started REALLY outlining (as opposed to that pretend BS I've been trying to convince myself was "outlining" over the past couple of weeks). FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. (Anyone got that meme? Would be particularly apt right now.)

EDIT: Also, I have one take home exam (which my professor said he'd give 48-72 hours for us to complete). Should I even bother outlining for that class? Or if I do, make it pretty straightforward, since I can look up something if I really am having trouble remembering it?

It would take at least some of the load off...since I feel like there's this insurmountable task in front of me, and I really want to puke/throw myself off of a large building.

Oh yeah, and there's also the memo...don't get me started.

yeeah I snort adderall.

chicagolaw2013 wrote:I just started REALLY outlining (as opposed to that pretend BS I've been trying to convince myself was "outlining" over the past couple of weeks). FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. (Anyone got that meme? Would be particularly apt right now.)

What is the difference between fake outlining and real outlining for you?

fuckin estates and future interest's shit UP right now.

I'm outlining 2 of my 3 substantive classes (writing class doesn't need one obv)
the 2 im outlining are contracts and torts.
my crim law is closed book, and I have an amazing outline for that class from a 2L, so no outlines for that class.
Neither of mine are up to date right now, but i think i can get torts there today if i buckle down.

What do people think about listing cases in outlines? Should there be one for every rule, to analogize to/differentiate from? I'm leaning towards including a case only if it has a broad holding.

betasteve wrote:

BunkMoreland wrote:2L here. haven't even started outlining XD

Ditto.

Also, hadn't started outlining 1L year at this time, either.

not asking sarcastically, but how'd you do 1L class rank?

gwuorbust wrote:

betasteve wrote:

BunkMoreland wrote:2L here. haven't even started outlining XD

Ditto.

Also, hadn't started outlining 1L year at this time, either.

not asking sarcastically, but how'd you do 1L class rank?

Honestly, I think outlining is something to do if it makes you feel more sure about yourself... but i highly doubt that it has much correlation to grades. Granted, the gunners who study alot and make detailed outlines will do better, but that is because they spend time with the material, and probably take twice as many practice tests as their classmates.

daesonesb wrote:

gwuorbust wrote:

betasteve wrote:

BunkMoreland wrote:2L here. haven't even started outlining XD

Ditto.

Also, hadn't started outlining 1L year at this time, either.

not asking sarcastically, but how'd you do 1L class rank?

Honestly, I think outlining is something to do if it makes you feel more sure about yourself... but i highly doubt that it has much correlation to grades. Granted, the gunners who study alot and make detailed outlines will do better, but that is because they spend time with the material, and probably take twice as many practice tests as their classmates.

yeah, see I think it is all about PT but I think I'd have a hard time taking PT w/o on outline to at least glance at a few times while typing away.

daesonesb wrote:Honestly, I think outlining is something to do if it makes you feel more sure about yourself... but i highly doubt that it has much correlation to grades. Granted, the gunners who study alot and make detailed outlines will do better, but that is because they spend time with the material, and probably take twice as many practice tests as their classmates.

I was thinking the same thing... I've got solid outlines for Torts and Property, but my Civ Pro outline is way behind. But I'm not really sure it's worth taking the time to finish. It's a closed book test, other than the FRCP supplement which we can annotate. I feel like my time is better spent methodically going through the E&E several times and making sure I understand and can explain every hypo.. and then taking some practice exams. Any thoughts on this strategy?

California Babe wrote:

chicagolaw2013 wrote:I just started REALLY outlining (as opposed to that pretend BS I've been trying to convince myself was "outlining" over the past couple of weeks). FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. (Anyone got that meme? Would be particularly apt right now.)

What is the difference between fake outlining and real outlining for you?

Fake outlining: basically retyping/copying and pasting my notes into an "outline".

Real outlining: actually synthesizing the law.

I mean, I guess what I call "fake outlining" is actually a step in the outlining process, but I feel like I was just being a poser hahaha.