1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

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Grizz
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Grizz » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:51 am

Desert Fox wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:eh engineering school is harder.

Law school isn't hard it's just tedious.


It's hard only because of the ridiculous manner in which we are tested. Given a 5 hour problem with only three hours to solve.

And this isn't bitterness, I'm very sure I'd do worse if people were given adequate time. It's easier to mask lack of knowledge on these tests.

It's all about trying to carve out a curve amongst similarly intelligent people with material that quite frankly isn't that hard to understand.


This is why it's soul sucking.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:41 am

Desert Fox wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:eh engineering school is harder.

Law school isn't hard it's just tedious.


It's hard only because of the ridiculous manner in which we are tested. Given a 5 hour problem with only three hours to solve.

And this isn't bitterness, I'm very sure I'd do worse if people were given adequate time. It's easier to mask lack of knowledge on these tests.

It's all about trying to carve out a curve amongst similarly intelligent people with material that quite frankly isn't that hard to understand.


+1.

I truly believe that the curve help me more than hurts me in the vast majority of my classes and if all my finals were given as take home week long final I would be fighting for median right now.

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traehekat
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby traehekat » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:47 am

Desert Fox wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:eh engineering school is harder.

Law school isn't hard it's just tedious.


It's hard only because of the ridiculous manner in which we are tested. Given a 5 hour problem with only three hours to solve.

And this isn't bitterness, I'm very sure I'd do worse if people were given adequate time. It's easier to mask lack of knowledge on these tests.

It's all about trying to carve out a curve amongst similarly intelligent people with material that quite frankly isn't that hard to understand.


i was just having this conversation with someone last night. law school is difficult for all the wrong reasons.

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby snowpeach06 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:59 am

I like these con law barbi lectures, but, of course they skip some of the most confusing stuff we covered. Like the presidents power re: terrorism.

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SmittenMitten
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby SmittenMitten » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:12 am

can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?

stayway
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby stayway » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:39 am

SmittenMitten wrote:can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?


You're in a better position than me. My Ks exam is closed book.

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mbusch22
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby mbusch22 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:52 am

nooyyllib wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?


You're in a better position than me. My Ks exam is closed book.


I think I like closed book exams better. More focus and less "should I double check my outline?" feeling. I guess having a checklist/attack outline is nice though.

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby snowpeach06 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:02 pm

SmittenMitten wrote:can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?


Must be offer/acceptance/consideration. If not, is there promissory estoppel? If no = no contract. Trust me, K's is a perfect supplement class. I literally never paid attention for more than 5 min in class and got a b+ by reading the e&e, doing CALI lessons and doing a few sample exams. Also, i tailored my outline for people who are absolute idiots and literally don't understand anything (like myself) so I can send it to you if you'd like.

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SmittenMitten
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby SmittenMitten » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:07 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?


Must be offer/acceptance/consideration. If not, is there promissory estoppel? If no = no contract. Trust me, K's is a perfect supplement class. I literally never paid attention for more than 5 min in class and got a b+ by reading the e&e, doing CALI lessons and doing a few sample exams. Also, i tailored my outline for people who are absolute idiots and literally don't understand anything (like myself) so I can send it to you if you'd like.



I would like. PMing you now.

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Unitas
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Unitas » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:08 pm

SmittenMitten wrote:can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?


1. Is there a contract, i.e., an agreement that is legally enforceable? (Legal grounds not to in Offer and Acceptance)
a. Agreement? (See Offer and Acceptance)
i. Reason agreement isn’t enforceable (See Flaws in K formation)
b. Consideration? (Consideration)
i. Without Consideration, is there a promise that is relied on? (Promissory Estoppel in Consideration)
2. If K, what are its terms? (Determining Terms)
3. Have the two contracting parties performed pursuant to those terms? (Breach)
a. Was the breach in advance (Anticipatory repudiation)
4. If K didn't perform, is the nonperformance excused? (Excuses)
5. Are there additional parties with rights and what are they? (Third Parties)
6. And, if unexcused breached, what are the legal remedies for everyone? (Remedies)

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SmittenMitten
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby SmittenMitten » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:27 pm

Unitas wrote:
SmittenMitten wrote:can somebody explain contracts to me real quick?

or, in the alternate- swaddle me and tell me everything is going to be okay?


1. Is there a contract, i.e., an agreement that is legally enforceable? (Legal grounds not to in Offer and Acceptance)
a. Agreement? (See Offer and Acceptance)
i. Reason agreement isn’t enforceable (See Flaws in K formation)
b. Consideration? (Consideration)
i. Without Consideration, is there a promise that is relied on? (Promissory Estoppel in Consideration)
2. If K, what are its terms? (Determining Terms)
3. Have the two contracting parties performed pursuant to those terms? (Breach)
a. Was the breach in advance (Anticipatory repudiation)
4. If K didn't perform, is the nonperformance excused? (Excuses)
5. Are there additional parties with rights and what are they? (Third Parties)
6. And, if unexcused breached, what are the legal remedies for everyone? (Remedies)



thanks everybody! I'm still very scared-but hopefully the little checklists I'm making will save me.

keg411
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:53 pm

Feeling a little better about ConLaw today after reading through all of the old exams and pretty much realizing why our prof doesn't give out sample answers :). I have a little more of my outline to fix, and I need to add in page numbers, but other than that I feel like I have a better grasp on what is going to be tested.

09042014
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:55 pm

keg411 wrote:Feeling a little better about ConLaw today after reading through all of the old exams and pretty much realizing why our prof doesn't give out sample answers :). I have a little more of my outline to fix, and I need to add in page numbers, but other than that I feel like I have a better grasp on what is going to be tested.


Same questions every year? I swear I could have prewrote 50% of my Civ Pro exam last year.

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Sogui
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Sogui » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:06 pm

I had 1 take-home exam last semester and none this semester. I *really* wish we had more take-home exams.

The one I had was 8 hours, open book, and had a fair word limit to keep people from going crazy and transcribing everything they have on the subject into the answer. On the other hand I'm finding most of the stress for these timed issue spotters isn't about spotting the issues, nor is it about giving an intelligent discussion of them, it's about who can type at 90wpm and fit in as MUCH discussion about the issues as possible. Sure some professors are more discriminating in their grading, but others seem to grade on "checks" and if the another student can bring up more "stuff" then he's going to be ahead of you on the curve.

I still don't think I've heard a satisfying answer as to what a 3-4 hour exam does that an 8 hour take-home cannot, besides making studying 4x stressful/tedious/depressing.

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Bobby Dazzler
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Bobby Dazzler » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:15 pm

goodolgil wrote:
Vic wrote:9 hour legal writing final... done! Finished with 3.5 minutes to spare. "Only" 4 finals left of 1L, all of them in substantive classes. May 13 really can't come soon enough. Feel weird to look forward to working full-time this summer as a break.


What the hell? What's a legal writing final?


Ours was writing a memorandum of points and and authorities, max 8 pages, in 9 hours. No research and only 6 or 7 sources (cases, law review article, civ pro rule).

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby snowpeach06 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:17 pm

Can someone explain to me the Lopez factors for determining if something has a substantial relationship to interstate commerce?

edit: Are there only 4 factors in Morrison?

and for 10th amendment - can states pass laws that commandeer so long as the fed gov enforces those rules themselves? Now I'm all confuzzled.

keg411
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:15 pm

Sogui wrote:I had 1 take-home exam last semester and none this semester. I *really* wish we had more take-home exams.

The one I had was 8 hours, open book, and had a fair word limit to keep people from going crazy and transcribing everything they have on the subject into the answer. On the other hand I'm finding most of the stress for these timed issue spotters isn't about spotting the issues, nor is it about giving an intelligent discussion of them, it's about who can type at 90wpm and fit in as MUCH discussion about the issues as possible. Sure some professors are more discriminating in their grading, but others seem to grade on "checks" and if the another student can bring up more "stuff" then he's going to be ahead of you on the curve.

I still don't think I've heard a satisfying answer as to what a 3-4 hour exam does that an 8 hour take-home cannot, besides making studying 4x stressful/tedious/depressing.


I'll trade you my 8 hour ConLaw take home for a 3-4 hour in-class.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:17 pm

keg411 wrote:
Sogui wrote:I had 1 take-home exam last semester and none this semester. I *really* wish we had more take-home exams.

The one I had was 8 hours, open book, and had a fair word limit to keep people from going crazy and transcribing everything they have on the subject into the answer. On the other hand I'm finding most of the stress for these timed issue spotters isn't about spotting the issues, nor is it about giving an intelligent discussion of them, it's about who can type at 90wpm and fit in as MUCH discussion about the issues as possible. Sure some professors are more discriminating in their grading, but others seem to grade on "checks" and if the another student can bring up more "stuff" then he's going to be ahead of you on the curve.

I still don't think I've heard a satisfying answer as to what a 3-4 hour exam does that an 8 hour take-home cannot, besides making studying 4x stressful/tedious/depressing.


I'll trade you my 8 hour ConLaw take home for a 3-4 hour in-class.


Please oh please lets find a way to make this trade work somehow, I would do it in a heartbeat.

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Sogui
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Sogui » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:19 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:Can someone explain to me the Lopez factors for determining if something has a substantial relationship to interstate commerce?

edit: Are there only 4 factors in Morrison?

and for 10th amendment - can states pass laws that commandeer so long as the fed gov enforces those rules themselves? Now I'm all confuzzled.


1) the channels of interstate commerce,
2) the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, or persons or things in interstate commerce,and
3) activities that substantially affect or substantially relate to interstate commerce

Pretty self-explanatory right?

Morrison added a sub-point to #3) That the regulated activity must be an economic activity in order for a "substantial aggregate affect" to make the activity fall under commerce clause authority.


Your 10th amendment question is confusing. The whole points of commandeering is that the Federal Gov ISN'T enforcing the rules themselves under their Constitutional authority, they are using threats (not just withholding benefits) as a means to control a state's actions or they are delegating state officials to the enforcement of federal laws. Is there a specific case you read that said otherwise?

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mbusch22
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby mbusch22 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:33 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:Can someone explain to me the Lopez factors for determining if something has a substantial relationship to interstate commerce?

edit: Are there only 4 factors in Morrison?

and for 10th amendment - can states pass laws that commandeer so long as the fed gov enforces those rules themselves? Now I'm all confuzzled.


The Federal Gov is the one that is gonna be commandeering the states, not the other way around.

And +1 on what Sogui said above me.

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Sogui
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Sogui » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:58 pm

keg411 wrote:
Sogui wrote:I had 1 take-home exam last semester and none this semester. I *really* wish we had more take-home exams.

The one I had was 8 hours, open book, and had a fair word limit to keep people from going crazy and transcribing everything they have on the subject into the answer. On the other hand I'm finding most of the stress for these timed issue spotters isn't about spotting the issues, nor is it about giving an intelligent discussion of them, it's about who can type at 90wpm and fit in as MUCH discussion about the issues as possible. Sure some professors are more discriminating in their grading, but others seem to grade on "checks" and if the another student can bring up more "stuff" then he's going to be ahead of you on the curve.

I still don't think I've heard a satisfying answer as to what a 3-4 hour exam does that an 8 hour take-home cannot, besides making studying 4x stressful/tedious/depressing.


I'll trade you my 8 hour ConLaw take home for a 3-4 hour in-class.


Is there a world limit? :D

I've never done a take home that didn't have a word limit but I imagine that it would still be extremely stressful since instead of having a race to see who can get in 10,000 words in 3 hours you have people trying to get 25,000 words in 8 hours. My contracts exam had a 3,000 word limit for an 8-hour exam. When I did that exam I felt more like I was a lawyer, thinking critically about a difficult question and providing a thoughtful, concise answer, the same kind that a client might value. In this semester's classes especially I feel like it is a race to fit in every argument that tangentially relates to the hypo, where speed is king and grading favors people who memorized cases obsessively beforehand.

Right I'm staring at this ridiculous model answer where for a 20-minute question someone typed up a full 2 pages at roughly ~1000 words. This one in particular is a question asking whether or not "in emergency situations, the president has authority to act in accordance with his own interpretation of the Constitution." So in 20-minutes the student pounds out 2 full pages for an answer, offering a summary of almost every case of a President exercising his own interpretation of the Constitution, from signing statements to the prohibition of line-item vetoes... and not once does it ever mention the word "emergency" or "emergency situation" or cite any case or arguments regarding emergencies. I'd imagine if you did the same thing as a lawyer you'd get chewed out by a superior for completely missing the scope of the question, yet the standard for these time-crunch exams seems to be more about how much information you can regurgitate to convince the professor you "learned the material".

Meh, exams are making me cynical all over again.

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby snowpeach06 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:01 pm

Sogui wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:Can someone explain to me the Lopez factors for determining if something has a substantial relationship to interstate commerce?

edit: Are there only 4 factors in Morrison?

and for 10th amendment - can states pass laws that commandeer so long as the fed gov enforces those rules themselves? Now I'm all confuzzled.


1) the channels of interstate commerce,
2) the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, or persons or things in interstate commerce,and
3) activities that substantially affect or substantially relate to interstate commerce

Pretty self-explanatory right?

Morrison added a sub-point to #3) That the regulated activity must be an economic activity in order for a "substantial aggregate affect" to make the activity fall under commerce clause authority.


Your 10th amendment question is confusing. The whole points of commandeering is that the Federal Gov ISN'T enforcing the rules themselves under their Constitutional authority, they are using threats (not just withholding benefits) as a means to control a state's actions or they are delegating state officials to the enforcement of federal laws. Is there a specific case you read that said otherwise?


A sample exam I'm reading said that the Morrison thing is:
1. Is regulated thing economic
2. Is there a jurisdictional element
3. Leg. history
4. Connection is attenuated
This seemed like the test in Lopez - minus some factors, but I don't remember a test from morrison so I got confused. Is there even a 7 factor test from Lopez?

It also said that the federal government must enforce its own regulations and not make states do that. But, I thought the federal government simply couldn't make regulations for states at all.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:02 pm

36 hours till Civ Pro Exam, I am slowly going through everything with BOTH the E & E and the Glannon Guide but it seems like this is just too time consuming so I am thinking of just doing the Glannon Guide and only do the practice problems from the E & E without actually reading the substantive materials. Good idea? Bad idea? Great idea?

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fathergoose
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby fathergoose » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:10 pm

I just think "commandeering" is a bad ass word.

It makes me think of awesome pirates stuff. It's just about the only thing I enjoy about studying Con Law.

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Sogui
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread (ROUND 2 SUCKAS)

Postby Sogui » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:11 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:36 hours till Civ Pro Exam, I am slowly going through everything with BOTH the E & E and the Glannon Guide but it seems like this is just too time consuming so I am thinking of just doing the Glannon Guide and only do the practice problems from the E & E without actually reading the substantive materials. Good idea? Bad idea? Great idea?


Never used a full hornbook so I don't know what the Glannon guide offers above and beyond the E&E. The E&E should have all the info you need for the practice questions anyway, either use your method or if you are pressed for time just focus on the E&E if that goes faster. Either way reading both seems like a horribly redundant method, but like I said I have no idea how much overlap there is between the guide and the E&E.




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