getting to maybe outline

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pointnlaugh7
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getting to maybe outline

Postby pointnlaugh7 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:03 pm

any generous TLS users out there wanna share with me an outline of 'getting to maybe'?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:04 pm

Seriously? Why not just read it?

Anonymous Loser
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:07 pm

pointnlaugh7 wrote:any generous TLS users out there wanna share with me an outline of 'getting to maybe'?


I Introduction
i. Law school is hard
II. Discussion
i. Law School is all about exams
ii. Secret to exams = show your work
III. Conclusion
i. To do well in law school, make sure to show your analysis in your exam answers

rynabrius
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby rynabrius » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:08 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote:
pointnlaugh7 wrote:any generous TLS users out there wanna share with me an outline of 'getting to maybe'?


I Introduction
i. Law school is hard
II. Discussion
i. Law School is all about exams
ii. Secret to exams = show your work
III. Conclusion
i. To do well in law school, make sure to show your analysis in your exam answers


any generous TLs users out there wanna share an outline of that outline to 'getting to maybe'?

truevines
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:16 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby truevines » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:06 pm

rynabrius wrote:
Anonymous Loser wrote:
pointnlaugh7 wrote:any generous TLS users out there wanna share with me an outline of 'getting to maybe'?


I Introduction
i. Law school is hard
II. Discussion
i. Law School is all about exams
ii. Secret to exams = show your work
III. Conclusion
i. To do well in law school, make sure to show your analysis in your exam answers


any generous TLs users out there wanna share an outline of that outline to 'getting to maybe'?


Law school is all about exams and to do well, show all your analysis in your exam answers.

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Amy wineBerry
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Amy wineBerry » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:23 pm

Wow, I didn't even think to ask for an outline of GTM. I just picked up the book and added it to all the others I have to read. We're in the same boat as to not reading the book over the summer like I'm guessing everyone else did.

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stocksly33
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby stocksly33 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:40 pm

it's my notes/pseudo outline

- GTM
o This list of forks is not comprehensive but represents the bulk of issues.
o There are often more than one fork within a fact set and often forks within forks.
o Different forks are often linked to each other, be sure to notice and discuss
o Sometimes forks in law/fact will affect how the fork in fact/law is implicated… in a concurrent or nonconcurrent manner
o when I find a fork… figure out why there is a fork and what will happen if each respective path is taken
o be sure to address and analyze potential agruements for the other side of the fork not chosen (or alternative forks not analyzed because not relevant)
o use an intro paragraph to outline the issues that will be addressed (? is this a waste of time?
 Fork Method: (2 forks)
o Fork in the law
 rule vs. counter rule (when a fact set contains any rule vs. counterrule examples, be sure to delve into both. even if one rule is more commonly or should be used, discuss them both and why one should be used and not the other. if one rule vs. the other seems clearly dominant… I may have missed something in the fact set.)
o watch for unidentified or imaginary jursidictions
o watch for jurisdiction whose law wasn’t explored in class
o watch for modern rules that haven’t been judicially adopted yet
• traditional rule vs. modern rule
• when multiple jurisdictions have differing rules (majority vs minority rule)
• common law vs. statute
 competing interpretations of one rule
• statutes (*pay attention to the statutary ambiguities the prof emphasizes – variation on a hypo, new application of an old statute, new or imaginary statute, using a statute in common law claim)
o watch for plain meaning vs. purpose of the statute
 for purpose see legislative history, provisions to the statute, official comments, and societal events that prompted statute.
 most rules have more than one purpose and sometimes those purposes have conflicts (this can create another fork)
 pay attention to how prof describes the purpose/intent of the statute
 watch for broad vs. narrow purposes
 watch for multiple interpretations of the plain meaning of a word or words (sometimes the statute will have a definitions section of the words used, sometimes the meaning of a word changes throughout history, consider the commercial or specialties definition of the word, sometimes there is differing definitions according to statute vs. common law and sometimes statutes are written to correct the common law definition)
o policy analysis
• cases (applying a fact set/hypo to an existing case(s). discuss the similarities and differences. fact sets can either be distinguished from a case, applied to a case, or extended to a case. extending is saying that the rationale used in the case should also be used in the fact set or be extended to the fact set. sometimes only one case is relevant for the fact set but sometimes there are multiple relevant cases.)
o watch for strict rule vs. rationale for the rule
o watch for narrow vs. broad interpretations of a case
o watch for cases where the judges were not clear on their rationale
o watch for multiple rationales
o watch for when multiple cases seem to apply – sometimes I’m supposed to pick the one that applies, other times I’m supposed to discuss the implications/reasoning of applying various cases
o fork in the facts
 rule vs. exception(s) – sometimes exam questions will focus on situations where it is unclear whether the rule or exception applies
 terms in statutes often create boundries that dictate when the statute applies. these terms will be used to determine whether the facts fall in or out of the statute
 different laws are applied during different periods of a chain of events. some laws are relevant until a certain action is performed then another law should be applied. the quality of the action taken can also determine whether the action crosses into the next law.
 facts can cause ambiguity in all elements so don’t just think I have it figured out because I find a conflict in 1 element.
 facts will be used to dispute abstract terms (like “reasonable person”)
 often there will be different facts that support different sides of an issue
 sometimes different laws will apply depending on the time-frame of the events and sometimes the facts will make the time-frame ambiguous
 sometimes whether facts are taken as a whole or separately will produce different applicable laws / outcomes.
 how general or specific the facts are may affect which/whether a law is applicable
 facts will open turn on how the language is interpreted. spoken and written language. words vs. action, written vs. oral, literal vs. reasonable expectations, multiple meanings.
o Polcy Questions:
 analyze ads & disads of both sides. don’t get hung up on one side for personal reasons.
 consider these themes:
• how different paths will shape society
• how the rule must be administered (w/ cost-benefit analysis)
• the fair justice but don’t get too hung up here because often the issues are complicated (i.e. the unfairness of change/consistency, consider how other jurisdictions both in statute and common law handle the issue, is the policy consistent across social/economic groups)
• the role I am taking if the prof asks me to answer for a particular role (legislator, judge, consumer, etc.)
• whether govt should intervene in this matter.
• themes of policy q’s: trade-offs, paradoxes of competing values, short-run vs. long run, intents vs. effects, law in the books vs. law in action, category of law ambiguity, meaning of words ambiguity.

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Amy wineBerry
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Amy wineBerry » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:04 am

stocksly33 wrote:it's my notes/pseudo outline

- GTM
o This list of forks is not comprehensive but represents the bulk of issues.
o There are often more than one fork within a fact set and often forks within forks.
o Different forks are often linked to each other, be sure to notice and discuss
o Sometimes forks in law/fact will affect how the fork in fact/law is implicated… in a concurrent or nonconcurrent manner
o when I find a fork… figure out why there is a fork and what will happen if each respective path is taken
o be sure to address and analyze potential agruements for the other side of the fork not chosen (or alternative forks not analyzed because not relevant)
o use an intro paragraph to outline the issues that will be addressed (? is this a waste of time?
 Fork Method: (2 forks)
o Fork in the law
 rule vs. counter rule (when a fact set contains any rule vs. counterrule examples, be sure to delve into both. even if one rule is more commonly or should be used, discuss them both and why one should be used and not the other. if one rule vs. the other seems clearly dominant… I may have missed something in the fact set.)
o watch for unidentified or imaginary jursidictions
o watch for jurisdiction whose law wasn’t explored in class
o watch for modern rules that haven’t been judicially adopted yet
• traditional rule vs. modern rule
• when multiple jurisdictions have differing rules (majority vs minority rule)
• common law vs. statute
 competing interpretations of one rule
• statutes (*pay attention to the statutary ambiguities the prof emphasizes – variation on a hypo, new application of an old statute, new or imaginary statute, using a statute in common law claim)
o watch for plain meaning vs. purpose of the statute
 for purpose see legislative history, provisions to the statute, official comments, and societal events that prompted statute.
 most rules have more than one purpose and sometimes those purposes have conflicts (this can create another fork)
 pay attention to how prof describes the purpose/intent of the statute
 watch for broad vs. narrow purposes
 watch for multiple interpretations of the plain meaning of a word or words (sometimes the statute will have a definitions section of the words used, sometimes the meaning of a word changes throughout history, consider the commercial or specialties definition of the word, sometimes there is differing definitions according to statute vs. common law and sometimes statutes are written to correct the common law definition)
o policy analysis
• cases (applying a fact set/hypo to an existing case(s). discuss the similarities and differences. fact sets can either be distinguished from a case, applied to a case, or extended to a case. extending is saying that the rationale used in the case should also be used in the fact set or be extended to the fact set. sometimes only one case is relevant for the fact set but sometimes there are multiple relevant cases.)
o watch for strict rule vs. rationale for the rule
o watch for narrow vs. broad interpretations of a case
o watch for cases where the judges were not clear on their rationale
o watch for multiple rationales
o watch for when multiple cases seem to apply – sometimes I’m supposed to pick the one that applies, other times I’m supposed to discuss the implications/reasoning of applying various cases
o fork in the facts
 rule vs. exception(s) – sometimes exam questions will focus on situations where it is unclear whether the rule or exception applies
 terms in statutes often create boundries that dictate when the statute applies. these terms will be used to determine whether the facts fall in or out of the statute
 different laws are applied during different periods of a chain of events. some laws are relevant until a certain action is performed then another law should be applied. the quality of the action taken can also determine whether the action crosses into the next law.
 facts can cause ambiguity in all elements so don’t just think I have it figured out because I find a conflict in 1 element.
 facts will be used to dispute abstract terms (like “reasonable person”)
 often there will be different facts that support different sides of an issue
 sometimes different laws will apply depending on the time-frame of the events and sometimes the facts will make the time-frame ambiguous
 sometimes whether facts are taken as a whole or separately will produce different applicable laws / outcomes.
 how general or specific the facts are may affect which/whether a law is applicable
 facts will open turn on how the language is interpreted. spoken and written language. words vs. action, written vs. oral, literal vs. reasonable expectations, multiple meanings.
o Polcy Questions:
 analyze ads & disads of both sides. don’t get hung up on one side for personal reasons.
 consider these themes:
• how different paths will shape society
• how the rule must be administered (w/ cost-benefit analysis)
• the fair justice but don’t get too hung up here because often the issues are complicated (i.e. the unfairness of change/consistency, consider how other jurisdictions both in statute and common law handle the issue, is the policy consistent across social/economic groups)
• the role I am taking if the prof asks me to answer for a particular role (legislator, judge, consumer, etc.)
• whether govt should intervene in this matter.
• themes of policy q’s: trade-offs, paradoxes of competing values, short-run vs. long run, intents vs. effects, law in the books vs. law in action, category of law ambiguity, meaning of words ambiguity.


Awesomeness...something to refer to as I read. Gracias!

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traehekat
Posts: 3195
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby traehekat » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:33 am

Yo man, can you brief this brief for me? Then just give me the gist of that brief, I ain't got time for no readin'.

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stocksly33
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:48 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby stocksly33 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:49 am

Amy wineBerry wrote: Awesomeness...something to refer to as I read. Gracias!


I'm glad i read it over the summer, but now i know why everyone says they read it in november too. i'v forgotten all of that due to all my brainpower focusing on substance and study strategy.

i liked delaneys too.

pointnlaugh7
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby pointnlaugh7 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:58 am

do people really have nothing better to do than go on TLS and make fun of other users' posts?

pointnlaugh7
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby pointnlaugh7 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:58 am

thanks stocksly

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:45 am

I can't imagine I would have gotten much out of GTM without actually reading it. Its not that long, and it's an easy and highly informative read. I would definitely recommend reading the actual book.

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California Babe
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby California Babe » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:45 pm

Image

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DeSimone
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby DeSimone » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:07 pm

Image

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LAWYER2
Posts: 576
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:15 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby LAWYER2 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:18 pm

pointnlaugh7 wrote:do people really have nothing better to do than go on TLS and make fun of other users' posts?

obviously not

Anonymous Loser
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:17 am

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Anonymous Loser » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:34 pm

LAWYER2 wrote:
pointnlaugh7 wrote:do people really have nothing better to do than go on TLS and make fun of other users' posts?

obviously not

Image

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beach_terror
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby beach_terror » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:19 pm

pointnlaugh7 wrote:do people really have nothing better to do than go on TLS and make fun of other users' posts?


Only really lazy user's posts.

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soaponarope
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:02 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby soaponarope » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:27 pm

I'm pissed I bought the book... my law school library has 5 copies that no one has checked out.

I bought the book when I was a 0L... didn't realize that law school library's have almost every supp known to man.

That said, it's a helpful book, but it's much like reading an instruction manual on "how to ride a bike". Sure... you can learn of some "do's and don'ts" of bike riding, however, you're not going to learn how to ride the bike just by reading. You have to actually RIDE the bike in order to learn, i.e. practice exams, practice exams, and practice exams. I guess what I'm getting at is, the book is a bit overrated.

I think a more useful way to spend your time is to practice hypos and bring them to your TA/professor and just ask... "how can I make this into an A answer".

this is JMO...

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Amy wineBerry
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Amy wineBerry » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:15 am

soaponarope wrote:I'm pissed I bought the book... my law school library has 5 copies that no one has checked out.

I bought the book when I was a 0L... didn't realize that law school library's have almost every supp known to man.

That said, it's a helpful book, but it's much like reading an instruction manual on "how to ride a bike". Sure... you can learn of some "do's and don'ts" of bike riding, however, you're not going to learn how to ride the bike just by reading. You have to actually RIDE the bike in order to learn, i.e. practice exams, practice exams, and practice exams. I guess what I'm getting at is, the book is a bit overrated.

I think a more useful way to spend your time is to practice hypos and bring them to your TA/professor and just ask... "how can I make this into an A answer".

this is JMO...


I'm sure our library probably has a few copies on reserve, as with other supplements. However, every time I go to use a supplement, I can never seem to find it, so I'd end up leaving the library in disgust. I've invested in my own supplements...

Would you suggest I return my book? I definitely plan on the hypos...my professors and I are going to become bffs in the next two weeks. It's just, I don't know... :cry: sighhhhhh

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stocksly33
Posts: 130
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby stocksly33 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:32 am

Amy wineBerry wrote: I'm sure our library probably has a few copies on reserve, as with other supplements. However, every time I go to use a supplement, I can never seem to find it, so I'd end up leaving the library in disgust. I've invested in my own supplements...

Would you suggest I return my book? I definitely plan on the hypos...my professors and I are going to become bffs in the next two weeks. It's just, I don't know... :cry: sighhhhhh


the way i see it, law school costs like 125-200k depending on where you go. you can get stacked full of supplements for 120 bucks per class on amazon. so an extra 300-400 bucks per semester isn't bad, for having a supplement library at your disposal. especially if you study at home... i say buy the books so you can write in them.

if you live near a half-price books or something, you can check there. i got a ton of crunchimes and e&es from used book stores.

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Amy wineBerry
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby Amy wineBerry » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:41 am

stocksly33 wrote:
Amy wineBerry wrote: I'm sure our library probably has a few copies on reserve, as with other supplements. However, every time I go to use a supplement, I can never seem to find it, so I'd end up leaving the library in disgust. I've invested in my own supplements...

Would you suggest I return my book? I definitely plan on the hypos...my professors and I are going to become bffs in the next two weeks. It's just, I don't know... :cry: sighhhhhh


the way i see it, law school costs like 125-200k depending on where you go. you can get stacked full of supplements for 120 bucks per class on amazon. so an extra 300-400 bucks per semester isn't bad, for having a supplement library at your disposal. especially if you study at home... i say buy the books so you can write in them.

if you live near a half-price books or something, you can check there. i got a ton of crunchimes and e&es from used book stores.


Good points...and this is probably the one semester I will spend the most on supplements anyway. What of a couple hundred dollars more of debt? Thanks for the advice.

concurrent fork
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Re: getting to maybe outline

Postby concurrent fork » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:47 am

California Babe wrote:Image


So many choices for new tar.




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