Anyone else have a lot of free time?

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Foosters Galore
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Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Foosters Galore » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:28 am

So about 5 weeks in and I'm starting to wonder what everyone else is spending all of their time on. I read the cases before class, some highlighting, notes in margins, and really try to step back and figure out the relevance, policy established, rule etc. I feel very prepared in class and have yet to be confused over anything discussed, save a few things in civ pro. Im putting in about 2-3 hours of work every day. I have NO idea what all these people are doing. Rereading cases? Reading Hornbooks? I guess I could get some supplements and fill my free time going through those, but I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp on stuff already. I'm not trying to brag here. I am genuinely confused as to what others are doing, and I feel like there's additional syllabus for each class that I never received. Do I sound like a bottom 10%er? I mean, is this what all the kids say who end up doing poorly? I'm kinda kidding, but also somewhat concerned. Anyway, just wondering if there are others out there like me?

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Kohinoor
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Kohinoor » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:33 am

Foosters Galore wrote:So about 5 weeks in and I'm starting to wonder what everyone else is spending all of their time on. I read the cases before class, some highlighting, notes in margins, and really try to step back and figure out the relevance, policy established, rule etc. I feel very prepared in class and have yet to be confused over anything discussed, save a few things in civ pro. Im putting in about 2-3 hours of work every day. I have NO idea what all these people are doing. Rereading cases? Reading Hornbooks? I guess I could get some supplements and fill my free time going through those, but I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp on stuff already. I'm not trying to brag here. I am genuinely confused as to what others are doing, and I feel like there's additional syllabus for each class that I never received. Do I sound like a bottom 10%er? I mean, is this what all the kids say who end up doing poorly? I'm kinda kidding, but also somewhat concerned. Anyway, just wondering if there are others out there like me?

Are you ever confused? If so, yea textbook bottom 10%.

Ivy0329
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Ivy0329 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:35 am

Kohinoor wrote:
Foosters Galore wrote:So about 5 weeks in and I'm starting to wonder what everyone else is spending all of their time on. I read the cases before class, some highlighting, notes in margins, and really try to step back and figure out the relevance, policy established, rule etc. I feel very prepared in class and have yet to be confused over anything discussed, save a few things in civ pro. Im putting in about 2-3 hours of work every day. I have NO idea what all these people are doing. Rereading cases? Reading Hornbooks? I guess I could get some supplements and fill my free time going through those, but I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp on stuff already. I'm not trying to brag here. I am genuinely confused as to what others are doing, and I feel like there's additional syllabus for each class that I never received. Do I sound like a bottom 10%er? I mean, is this what all the kids say who end up doing poorly? I'm kinda kidding, but also somewhat concerned. Anyway, just wondering if there are others out there like me?

Are you ever confused? If so, yea textbook bottom 10%.


If you're never confused, then maybe you're just naturally more intelligent than most people. If you're ever confused, then you should be outlining and doing a lot more work than you're doing now.

Foosters Galore
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Foosters Galore » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:56 am

ok, thanks. The times I have been "confused" are when the professor will throw out a multi-issue hypo in class. Sometimes I don't immediately, or even at all, recognize it. I just assumed that skill would come once I began to outline and synthesize all these rules. In other words, I go into every class feeling good about the material, and leave feeling even better that I went in focusing on the right issues, reasoning, policy. Its only when we tie in a rule from 3 weeks ago that I kinda draw a blank. I just assumed that once I began outlining/taking practice exams I would start to tie it all together. Maybe thats what all these other guys are doing now. I just assumed it was a bit early (although I have outlined torts through all of our material).

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MrKappus
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:01 am

Haha 2-3 hrs/day?? You are either a genius, or ur doin it rong.

Keep in mind, you should not read the 20-40 pages your prof assigns the way you read a 30-page liberal arts class assignment in college. I spent almost no time w/ hornbooks, but still found myself doing about 5-8 hrs/day in the library, b/c I was reading closely and carefully, and taking meticulous notes. I was a fast reader pre-LS, but when I do it right, a page takes closer to 3-4 minutes than 1.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:50 am

MrKappus wrote:Haha 2-3 hrs/day?? You are either a genius, or ur doin it rong.

Keep in mind, you should not read the 20-40 pages your prof assigns the way you read a 30-page liberal arts class assignment in college. I spent almost no time w/ hornbooks, but still found myself doing about 5-8 hrs/day in the library, b/c I was reading closely and carefully, and taking meticulous notes. I was a fast reader pre-LS, but when I do it right, a page takes closer to 3-4 minutes than 1.


Lol at the blast on humanities students. This is specifically why I recommend Rhetoric/Composition as a background for anyone thinking of going to law school. 1) the skills rhet comp students display are exactly the ones law students seem to use. Taking the LSAT felt like having a discussion with one of them. 2) Rhet Comp is probably the only humanity in serious demand. Law school doesn't work out then go back, PHD up, and get yourself a comfy job in the academy.

I say that as someone without a rhet. Comp background simply looking back on all those bastards. For instance, I'm pretty sure my best friend from grad school could go perfect on LG while napping. Probably a 175 first try, and that isn't to say he is all that smart. It's just that the skills tested on the LSAT are almost the exact ones he worked on as rhetoric student.

Tsispilos
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Tsispilos » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:02 am

I've always spent about 3 hours a day studying, until the month before exams, when I kick it up to about 10-12 hours a day (because that's when I start my outlines). So far, it's worked out decently for me (top 1/3). Frankly, I never saw the point of reading every single case with overwhelming exactitude--it's not like you're going to be talking about all the factual details of all the cases on your exams.

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Bustang
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Bustang » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:22 am

I spend 48 hours a day reading the note cases after the case we're assigned just in case the professor asks about one.

Oban
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Oban » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:42 am

All of the successful 2Ls I've talked to at my school(LR or LR+Top Grades), had the same advice when it comes to studying, or law school in general:


1. DON'T FREAK OUT
2. DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT ANYONE ELSE IS DOING

these two things are the hardest things about law school to do. It is so easy to try to compare your work levels to other people, but at the end of the day you have to be confident in yourself. If you aren't confused and understand the material, than woo hoo, spend a few more hours playing xbox or drinking. If you feel you don't quite understand Joinder, then read a supplement or see the prof during office hours.

Some kids in the top 10 percent spend 80 hours a week studying, some 10, there is no "formula"

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MrKappus
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:02 am

Fark-o-vision wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Haha 2-3 hrs/day?? You are either a genius, or ur doin it rong.

Keep in mind, you should not read the 20-40 pages your prof assigns the way you read a 30-page liberal arts class assignment in college. I spent almost no time w/ hornbooks, but still found myself doing about 5-8 hrs/day in the library, b/c I was reading closely and carefully, and taking meticulous notes. I was a fast reader pre-LS, but when I do it right, a page takes closer to 3-4 minutes than 1.


Lol at the blast on humanities students. This is specifically why I recommend Rhetoric/Composition as a background for anyone thinking of going to law school. 1) the skills rhet comp students display are exactly the ones law students seem to use. Taking the LSAT felt like having a discussion with one of them. 2) Rhet Comp is probably the only humanity in serious demand. Law school doesn't work out then go back, PHD up, and get yourself a comfy job in the academy.

I say that as someone without a rhet. Comp background simply looking back on all those bastards. For instance, I'm pretty sure my best friend from grad school could go perfect on LG while napping. Probably a 175 first try, and that isn't to say he is all that smart. It's just that the skills tested on the LSAT are almost the exact ones he worked on as rhetoric student.


Haha the blast was on humanities assignments, which can be read quickly for their main thrust, as opposed to LS readings, over which one should labor.

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nealric
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby nealric » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:16 am

Image

mrm2083
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby mrm2083 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:40 am

I'm the same way, 2-3 hrs per day, and i feel like i get it. I read the cases pretty quickly (usually doesn't take me more than an hour per class) highlighting and taking notes in the margin. After that I think about what the holding/issue/rule etc. were and compare those to past outlines that I have. I've gotten the gist of every single case I've read but I definitely don't remember minor details. I'm also really worried I'm doing something wrong because it seems way too easy but i feel like it would be pointless to re read the cases.

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Quine
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Quine » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:46 am

I have assloads of free time...

orko60
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby orko60 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:14 pm

I'm in the same boat. Aside from a few moments of confusion, there haven't been any concepts that are all that difficult to understand. I've spent my extra time reading E&E's and listening to Leews. I've started outlining as well, and some girl in class showed me hers with every case in it. Seemed like way too much.

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soaponarope
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby soaponarope » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:17 pm

Ivy0329 wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Foosters Galore wrote:So about 5 weeks in and I'm starting to wonder what everyone else is spending all of their time on. I read the cases before class, some highlighting, notes in margins, and really try to step back and figure out the relevance, policy established, rule etc. I feel very prepared in class and have yet to be confused over anything discussed, save a few things in civ pro. Im putting in about 2-3 hours of work every day. I have NO idea what all these people are doing. Rereading cases? Reading Hornbooks? I guess I could get some supplements and fill my free time going through those, but I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp on stuff already. I'm not trying to brag here. I am genuinely confused as to what others are doing, and I feel like there's additional syllabus for each class that I never received. Do I sound like a bottom 10%er? I mean, is this what all the kids say who end up doing poorly? I'm kinda kidding, but also somewhat concerned. Anyway, just wondering if there are others out there like me?

Are you ever confused? If so, yea textbook bottom 10%.


If you're never confused, then maybe you're just naturally more intelligent than most people. If you're ever confused, then you should be outlining and doing a lot more work than you're doing now.



If you're never confused then you are probably doing something wrong. I've come to find that a lot of the kids in my class who are so confident, "oh i totally get this", are usually wrong in the end.

Through my experience there seems to be a cycle of... kind of get it...class discussion brings clarity... then other issues bring ambiguity... focus on the nuances... back to clarity. Wash, rinse, repeat.

orko60
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby orko60 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:42 pm

If you're never confused then you are probably doing something wrong. I've come to find that a lot of the kids in my class who are so confident, "oh i totally get this", are usually wrong in the end.

Through my experience there seems to be a cycle of... kind of get it...class discussion brings clarity... then other issues bring ambiguity... focus on the nuances... back to clarity. Wash, rinse, repeat.


This seems to be the cycle I'm on. It just doesn't end with confusion like with other students in my class.

dakatz
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby dakatz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:51 pm

My guess would be that, either you are some kind of genius who just "gets" it all, or you are seriously underestimating the amount of work and effort you should be putting into this. Just based on probabilities alone, I'd say it is easier to fall into the latter of the two.

I don't read any case more than once, nor do I formally brief them. But the time spent meticulously reading, taking good notes in the margins, reading relevant hornbook sections, discussing the ambiguities with classmates, debating hypotheticals, going to office hours, outlining/re-outlining, and doing legal writing assignments takes up pretty much all the time I have. If concepts just click for you so intuitively, my guess is that you are overlooking the ambiguities inherent to the material which are so crucial for exam performance. There isn't a single concept I haven't been a little confused about, debated, thought about, dissected, etc.

Idk, everyone is different and has their own approach. Perhaps you are doing exactly what it is you need to do. But it is certainly foreign to me.

thwalls
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby thwalls » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:04 pm

I'm part-time so I guess that enters into my having no time. But currently I'm taking Contracts and Torts. in addition to LRW and course called "litigation basics," as a 1L. I find that I can usually do most of my work on the weekend and spend a total amount of 14-20 hours per week out of class studying. I also read some of the hornbooks on the train in the morning and evening just to cement some of the troublesome topics.

I also think a little confusion is good. The first day of class my contracts teacher said that if you do the reading, if you study the cases and your notes and you're confused about how the courts came to their decision then you're on the right track. You should be confused. Especially when you're reading about things like Freedom to contract or Negligent infliction of emotional harm and different states come to completely different conclusions when presented with almost identical fact patterns.

I think I'm more concerned about making sure that I can organize my thoughts and at least present the ambiguities of a fact pattern in an organized manner and then address the issues from multiple angles. Also, both of my tests are open book/open note so I just want to make sure that I'm organized and competant rather than completely being able to recite sections of the UCC verbatim.

sk95
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby sk95 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:49 pm

never confused? sounds like you're either a) a genius who will be top 5% or b) the kid who thinks he aced the exam only to find out he missed issues and wound up below median.

hithere
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby hithere » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:24 am

just make sure you can spot all the issues come exam day (if you've got the traditional law essay exam). Some are tricky to spot--that's why you go over hypos with classmates during your downtime/work on practice problems (law in the flash flashcards, etc.)

greatfool
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby greatfool » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:41 am

The thing about people who say that they "get it" is they are still thinking like its undergrad, on some level trying to meet a standard. But there is no 1L exam that tests if you "get it", its how much faster, deeper, insightfully you get it than the people around you. Its hard to put a number on hours thats enough but 2-3 is probably too little.

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kalvano
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby kalvano » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:46 am

So what is the magic number? 6 hours? 5 and a quarter?

At what point do you realize that you understand what you're reading, you understand the elements, can spot them and apply the law to different circumstances?
Last edited by kalvano on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

smittytron3k
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby smittytron3k » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:58 am

1L. my day-to-day study routine totally varies. sometimes i work 10 hours in a day, sometimes i work an hour and a half. i read and highlight every case, type and organize my class notes, take reading notes where necessary, read a case again if necessary, etc. i don't brief (tried it, thought it was a poor use of time), haven't started outlining (but plan to after fall break next week), and haven't read a ton of supplements. i don't think i'm the smartest person in my section or have the most consistently insightful things to say but i feel like i get it for the most part and have had a few "aha" moments while reading cases.

fwiw i did debate really seriously in hs and college and am a very quick reader. i think i would be struggling if i didn't have that going for me.
Last edited by smittytron3k on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 am

I've had free time these past couple days . . . because I haven't been in class with the flu

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savagedm
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Re: Anyone else have a lot of free time?

Postby savagedm » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:31 pm

Calm down guys, if you are blowing 6-8 hours a day studying outside of class this early in the game then you are doing it wrong. I don't know about y'all, but if I were to do that from now until December when finals start, I would shoot myself. Focus on understanding the concepts now, start outlining/studying for the exam when you are in a window that you will know will not burn you out before exam time.




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