Outside friends and family

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jemulla1
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby jemulla1 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:02 pm

This wedding isn't a simple 2 days off from school/studying short trip. AND I can't just attend. If I just attend she will expect me to be in it. Show I can show up but not be in the wedding? Doesn't seem right. Attendance would require a minimum $400 roundtrip ticket, $200 car rental plus 8 hours of travel time each way (travel to/from airport, 3 hour plane ride, 3 hour drive from nearest airport to town where wedding will take place). I'm not forgoing a train ride from NYC to Philly because I have law school. I don't have an extra couple hundred just laying around. Add in shoes, hair, makeup, gift for couple, dress and nails at lowest prices totaling $400 and I am sitting at $1000 to participate. This isn't just "one weekend off" screwing up my grades Krappus which by the way are amazing. God some people are just hateful on TLS.

Oh and "it's her fucking wedding" well... law school is my fucking life dream. I either succeed or I don't. Weddings are not the be all end all of life. Friendship does not mean you expect everyone to drop their priorities to attend to yours.

I have already made up my mind. The issue I brought up is what to say not whether or not I am a bad person for not going. Way to spot the actual question and weigh in on that... Think what you want, pass all the judgement you can spout off but unless you have dealt with this specific situation, you don't have authority to know what is right/wrong, bad/good.

To the guy who actually went through it notice his response. Compromise would be the best option. If the wedding was over Christmas or summer break I would have less of an argument not to attend. There is no significant attachment to the October date and I am not asking her to change the date so I can attend. She has the option and the choice. She knows my schedule. This far in advance, dates are an easy compromise.

The funny thing is my classmates and advisor at my school are on the other side of the argument. They think I am being fair and reasonable and need to think about my priorities. So in the end you can call me selfish "like right down to my core" or a douche but reality is I am doing what I think is right.

Thanks for the effective and confidence boosting responses...

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IAFG
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:12 pm

So what you wanted was mindless affirmation after already getting it from people close to you, from what you assumed would be a sympathetic audience of gunners.

09042014
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby 09042014 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:13 pm

You are such a nefarious gunner, you have IAFG disgusted at you. Shameful.

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IAFG
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:20 pm

Desert Fox wrote:You are such a nefarious gunner, you have IAFG disgusted at you. Shameful.

I was hoping you were calling her out on claiming "amazing" grades; or is that an RC fail on my part?

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MrKappus
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby MrKappus » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:34 pm

jemulla1 wrote:This wedding isn't a simple 2 days off from school/studying short trip. AND I can't just attend. If I just attend she will expect me to be in it. Show I can show up but not be in the wedding? Doesn't seem right. Attendance would require a minimum $400 roundtrip ticket, $200 car rental plus 8 hours of travel time each way (travel to/from airport, 3 hour plane ride, 3 hour drive from nearest airport to town where wedding will take place). I'm not forgoing a train ride from NYC to Philly because I have law school. I don't have an extra couple hundred just laying around. Add in shoes, hair, makeup, gift for couple, dress and nails at lowest prices totaling $400 and I am sitting at $1000 to participate. This isn't just "one weekend off" screwing up my grades Krappus which by the way are amazing. God some people are just hateful on TLS.

Oh and "it's her fucking wedding" well... law school is my fucking life dream. I either succeed or I don't. Weddings are not the be all end all of life. Friendship does not mean you expect everyone to drop their priorities to attend to yours.

I have already made up my mind. The issue I brought up is what to say not whether or not I am a bad person for not going. Way to spot the actual question and weigh in on that... Think what you want, pass all the judgement you can spout off but unless you have dealt with this specific situation, you don't have authority to know what is right/wrong, bad/good.

To the guy who actually went through it notice his response. Compromise would be the best option. If the wedding was over Christmas or summer break I would have less of an argument not to attend. There is no significant attachment to the October date and I am not asking her to change the date so I can attend. She has the option and the choice. She knows my schedule. This far in advance, dates are an easy compromise.

The funny thing is my classmates and advisor at my school are on the other side of the argument. They think I am being fair and reasonable and need to think about my priorities. So in the end you can call me selfish "like right down to my core" or a douche but reality is I am doing what I think is right.

Thanks for the effective and confidence boosting responses...


You're [not someone I agree w/]. And you write like [someone w/ grades lower than "amazing"]. I've got grades/LR already. Do whatever you want[].

Edited for causticity.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:02 pm

Op. Seriously. Get over yourself. The sooner you do that, the better. Because frankly, at this point, you run the serious risk of turning into "that associate" one day, that no one can stand and has no shot of making partner, but is convinced she is "loved" by the partnership.

Being a lawyer, means balancing your life and your practice. Law school is, mostly, a fucking joke compared to actually practicing. It only gets worse from graduation. So today, its, what seems to be, a former best friend's wedding. Tomorrow, its your husband's birthday or your daughter's graduation. What you (and its not just you its a lot of people heading down this road), fail to grasp, is that in addition to solid work product, you are largely judged, as a lawyer, by how likable you are. Here is a big spoiler... You're not a likable person. The sad part is, at one point, you might have been.

Don't let law school rob you of your identity (and likability), now, because the practice of law will only finish the job that law school started.

As far as not knowing what "we" are talking about... Many of the posters here are either in law school, or, like myself, graduated already. I've been out over 2 years. I remember the presure from family and friends and I certainly did not blindly make myself available for every event. But I did make sure I was there for the important stuff.

As to that crap about not attacking the correct question.. What the fuck did you want people to say... oh.. you're so right Gunner-princess, how awful of your friend to ask you to be her maid of honor… What ever was she thinking?!?! Doesn’t she know that.. Gasp… You’re in LAW SCHOOL. The trivial things in the lives of your family and friends are obviously second string to your study habits on the weekend. What a bitch.. How could she even ask that of you… You run right to her and tell her just how awful and thoughtless her offer was and demand that she not take up a second more of your precious law student time.. Then send her a bill for the honor of having had the opportunity to speak to the future holder of a shiny new JD.

09042014
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby 09042014 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:17 pm

IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You are such a nefarious gunner, you have IAFG disgusted at you. Shameful.

I was hoping you were calling her out on claiming "amazing" grades; or is that an RC fail on my part?


Well if she can't spare one weekend she is probably retarded and destined for Dead Fucking Last.

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IAFG
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You are such a nefarious gunner, you have IAFG disgusted at you. Shameful.

I was hoping you were calling her out on claiming "amazing" grades; or is that an RC fail on my part?


Well if she can't spare one weekend she is probably retarded and destined for Dead Fucking Last.

I just meant, I mean, I am a 1L and I don't have a single grade on the books. Wondering how?

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kalvano
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby kalvano » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:27 pm

jemulla1 wrote:Oh and "it's her fucking wedding" well... law school is my fucking life dream. I either succeed or I don't. Weddings are not the be all end all of life. Friendship does not mean you expect everyone to drop their priorities to attend to yours.



Actually, weddings are pretty damn important. More important than one weekend in your life.

It doesn't sound like she's expecting you to drop everything and cater to her, even though that's probably how your little walnut of a brain interprets it. She's asking you to be there on what is one of the most important days of her life.

If you can't spare one weekend to spend time with a friend, then real life outside of law school is going to make you suck on a tailpipe after a couple of years.

jemulla1
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby jemulla1 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:43 pm

So your automatic reaction from knowing one instance from one situation in my life is to call me a gunner princess bitch and say that I am not likable and I do not think of others? Good call on the gunner thing though since that's exactly what they do is ask for insight on how to approach things. The corporate world I experienced did not give a shit about being likable. I spent 3 years in corporate america before going back to school. One of them in a firm where I was well liked and respected with affirmations coming from colleagues and partners alike not my personal intuition.

I wanted answers from people who had been in similar situations. What they did, what they said, and if they got a positive or negative response. I got one post that related to that. The rest were spewing hateful comments telling me how bad of a person I am and not sparing one weekend means I am a failure at life and law school. My friends from school were the ones I posed the "am I an asshole" question to and one of them suggested posting on here because people with similar experiences would provide insight. I didn't post on here for sympathy. I posted on here for ideas on what to say. So you don't agree with my choice. Fine. I stand by my decisions and face the consequences. And where does it end? Well I don't know. Apparently one month into law school I am supposed to have the magic formula down for everything. Picking and choosing is a part of life in general. I can't make all the events I want to go to. I am unable to attend my cousin's wedding in Louisiana in two weeks. I am also unable to attend my friend's wedding in Mexico at the end of the month. I wasn't able to go to my friend's wedding in July because I didn't have vacation time left from my job. My nephew turned 9 today and I won't be able to fly to where he is to celebrate. My brother's birthday is next week and I can't go see him. I am such a horrible person for choosing to go to law school.

Does it make a difference to tell you that for 3 years she has put school ahead of me and she was in her second round of undergrad to become a high school teacher? How about the trips I made back there specifically to see her because she couldn't come to where I was since she gets carsick and is afraid to drive by herself? How about every time she is in crisis I answer the phone but when I have been in crisis she doesn't answer? When did weddings all of the sudden become the most important event that you go through to be there for your friends? She wants me to be MOH because she doesn't have any other really close friends. I've made quite a few sacrifices for her and for the friendship. I'm not telling her fuck off I'm busy but rather I can't make it at that time but will make it up to you the next time I am back home or if you decide to visit here.

This is my last reply since I have schoolwork to finish. Oh wait another choice....shit...

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reasonable_man
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:50 pm

jemulla1 wrote:So your automatic reaction from knowing one instance from one situation in my life is to call me a gunner princess bitch and say that I am not likable and I do not think of others? Good call on the gunner thing though since that's exactly what they do is ask for insight on how to approach things. The corporate world I experienced did not give a shit about being likable. I spent 3 years in corporate america before going back to school. One of them in a firm where I was well liked and respected with affirmations coming from colleagues and partners alike not my personal intuition.

I wanted answers from people who had been in similar situations. What they did, what they said, and if they got a positive or negative response. I got one post that related to that. The rest were spewing hateful comments telling me how bad of a person I am and not sparing one weekend means I am a failure at life and law school. My friends from school were the ones I posed the "am I an asshole" question to and one of them suggested posting on here because people with similar experiences would provide insight. I didn't post on here for sympathy. I posted on here for ideas on what to say. So you don't agree with my choice. Fine. I stand by my decisions and face the consequences. And where does it end? Well I don't know. Apparently one month into law school I am supposed to have the magic formula down for everything. Picking and choosing is a part of life in general. I can't make all the events I want to go to. I am unable to attend my cousin's wedding in Louisiana in two weeks. I am also unable to attend my friend's wedding in Mexico at the end of the month. I wasn't able to go to my friend's wedding in July because I didn't have vacation time left from my job. My nephew turned 9 today and I won't be able to fly to where he is to celebrate. My brother's birthday is next week and I can't go see him. I am such a horrible person for choosing to go to law school.

Does it make a difference to tell you that for 3 years she has put school ahead of me and she was in her second round of undergrad to become a high school teacher? How about the trips I made back there specifically to see her because she couldn't come to where I was since she gets carsick and is afraid to drive by herself? How about every time she is in crisis I answer the phone but when I have been in crisis she doesn't answer? When did weddings all of the sudden become the most important event that you go through to be there for your friends? She wants me to be MOH because she doesn't have any other really close friends. I've made quite a few sacrifices for her and for the friendship. I'm not telling her fuck off I'm busy but rather I can't make it at that time but will make it up to you the next time I am back home or if you decide to visit here.

This is my last reply since I have schoolwork to finish. Oh wait another choice....shit...



I like the color blue.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:51 pm

jemulla1 wrote:So your automatic reaction from knowing one instance from one situation in my life is to call me a gunner princess bitch and say that I am not likable and I do not think of others? Good call on the gunner thing though since that's exactly what they do is ask for insight on how to approach things. The corporate world I experienced did not give a shit about being likable. I spent 3 years in corporate america before going back to school. One of them in a firm where I was well liked and respected with affirmations coming from colleagues and partners alike not my personal intuition.

I wanted answers from people who had been in similar situations. What they did, what they said, and if they got a positive or negative response. I got one post that related to that. The rest were spewing hateful comments telling me how bad of a person I am and not sparing one weekend means I am a failure at life and law school. My friends from school were the ones I posed the "am I an asshole" question to and one of them suggested posting on here because people with similar experiences would provide insight. I didn't post on here for sympathy. I posted on here for ideas on what to say. So you don't agree with my choice. Fine. I stand by my decisions and face the consequences. And where does it end? Well I don't know. Apparently one month into law school I am supposed to have the magic formula down for everything. Picking and choosing is a part of life in general. I can't make all the events I want to go to. I am unable to attend my cousin's wedding in Louisiana in two weeks. I am also unable to attend my friend's wedding in Mexico at the end of the month. I wasn't able to go to my friend's wedding in July because I didn't have vacation time left from my job. My nephew turned 9 today and I won't be able to fly to where he is to celebrate. My brother's birthday is next week and I can't go see him. I am such a horrible person for choosing to go to law school.

Does it make a difference to tell you that for 3 years she has put school ahead of me and she was in her second round of undergrad to become a high school teacher? How about the trips I made back there specifically to see her because she couldn't come to where I was since she gets carsick and is afraid to drive by herself? How about every time she is in crisis I answer the phone but when I have been in crisis she doesn't answer? When did weddings all of the sudden become the most important event that you go through to be there for your friends? She wants me to be MOH because she doesn't have any other really close friends. I've made quite a few sacrifices for her and for the friendship. I'm not telling her fuck off I'm busy but rather I can't make it at that time but will make it up to you the next time I am back home or if you decide to visit here.

This is my last reply since I have schoolwork to finish. Oh wait another choice....shit...


Why don't you just show your friend this thread and she'll understand how you feel?

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MrKappus
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby MrKappus » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:23 pm

So wait...you're one month into law school and already have "amazing" grades?

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IAFG
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:26 pm

MrKappus wrote:So wait...you're one month into law school and already have "amazing" grades?

If she's referring to UG grades I am translating this to mean "sub-median LSAT."

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dresden doll
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby dresden doll » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:33 pm

IAFG wrote:
KMaine wrote:Law school is ABSOLUTELY NOT the most important thing in life.

wait... actually it sorta is. a lot turns on these grades.

also, what is it about wedding etiquette that makes people so crazy?


This. And does no one really comprehend that an October wedding would be preceded by months of planning and events, many of which maid of honor would need to be involved with and nearly all of which would cut into OP's 1L?

Also, 1L grades are immensely relevant. Consequences of tanking 1L can and many times will haunt you for years to come. There's nothing reprehensible about putting LS first for that one year of your life.

OP's career may well hinge on how well she does in her 1L (and, depending on clerkship ambitions) 2L as well. She has every right not to be blind to that fact even in the face of an event a cynic might say has a 50 percent chance resulting in divorce.

I do think OP should attend the wedding. But she shouldn't be guilt tripped into anything more than that.

Edited: I just read everything following IAFG's post. I now wonder a) why I didn't read it all before posting and b) what the point of this thread was.

Baylan
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby Baylan » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:05 am

jemulla1 wrote:So your automatic reaction from knowing one instance from one situation in my life is to call me a gunner princess bitch and say that I am not likable and I do not think of others? Good call on the gunner thing though since that's exactly what they do is ask for insight on how to approach things. The corporate world I experienced did not give a shit about being likable. I spent 3 years in corporate america before going back to school. One of them in a firm where I was well liked and respected with affirmations coming from colleagues and partners alike not my personal intuition.

I wanted answers from people who had been in similar situations. What they did, what they said, and if they got a positive or negative response. I got one post that related to that. The rest were spewing hateful comments telling me how bad of a person I am and not sparing one weekend means I am a failure at life and law school. My friends from school were the ones I posed the "am I an asshole" question to and one of them suggested posting on here because people with similar experiences would provide insight. I didn't post on here for sympathy. I posted on here for ideas on what to say. So you don't agree with my choice. Fine. I stand by my decisions and face the consequences. And where does it end? Well I don't know. Apparently one month into law school I am supposed to have the magic formula down for everything. Picking and choosing is a part of life in general. I can't make all the events I want to go to. I am unable to attend my cousin's wedding in Louisiana in two weeks. I am also unable to attend my friend's wedding in Mexico at the end of the month. I wasn't able to go to my friend's wedding in July because I didn't have vacation time left from my job. My nephew turned 9 today and I won't be able to fly to where he is to celebrate. My brother's birthday is next week and I can't go see him. I am such a horrible person for choosing to go to law school.

Does it make a difference to tell you that for 3 years she has put school ahead of me and she was in her second round of undergrad to become a high school teacher? How about the trips I made back there specifically to see her because she couldn't come to where I was since she gets carsick and is afraid to drive by herself? How about every time she is in crisis I answer the phone but when I have been in crisis she doesn't answer? When did weddings all of the sudden become the most important event that you go through to be there for your friends? She wants me to be MOH because she doesn't have any other really close friends. I've made quite a few sacrifices for her and for the friendship. I'm not telling her fuck off I'm busy but rather I can't make it at that time but will make it up to you the next time I am back home or if you decide to visit here.

This is my last reply since I have schoolwork to finish. Oh wait another choice....shit...


Bolded for points I'm trying to talk about... in numerical order.

1. Your long term value to a firm is bringing in clients, either because you're so amazing at what you do that clients will put up with your personality, or you're good enough at what you do and your personality brings in clients.

2. Yes. You are. Unless you have the magic formula down already, you're screwed. Serious point: this is over a year away. If you can't plan that far ahead, and either find the money, or get thrifty enough to get things more cheaply than a grand to go to a wedding... You're going to have serious money issues if you don't get BigLaw. And stay there.

In terms of picking and choosing - yeah, we all have to pick and choose, but when it comes down to it, make priorities. For something this far in advance, you clearly have the ability to do so. Your post was about this one decision, not the decisions of every life event. No, you can't make it all, but people tend to be more understanding when either short notice is given, or when they're offering up extremely expensive options (Mexico, flying out for a birthday, etc) but not having vacation time typically will fall on you. You, quite simply, prioritized your life (whatever it may be, and it could be for a very good reason) over your friend's wedding. Thats OK, but with this much advanced notice on something, you should be able to find a way.

3. Your last paragraph. You're bitter. That is why you aren't going. Either be bitter and lose the friend (if it matters) or get over yourself and go. Those are your options. Have fun. Good luck.

And yes, I know you'll read this, because your personality type screams, "I HAVE TO WIN AT EVERYTHING" to me. And you'll still lose this one, because you're being arrogant.

pehaigllleises
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Re: Outside friends and family

Postby pehaigllleises » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:07 pm

Is it not possible to tell your friend that you'd be honored to be in her wedding, but won't have time to throw showers or bach parties? I got married last month (August right before 2L year), and interviewed at OCI right up until 5 minutes before the rehearsal, got changed out of my suit in the bathroom, and ran across the street to the church. None of my other obligations suffered. Because I had so many other obligations I didn't want a shower or bach party, but those are pretty ridiculous anyway.

I only had my husband's sister as the maid of honor, and she was a busy 3rd year medical student. So I understood, and gave her a color of dress to pick out, a color of shoes, and a time to show up on the wedding day. I think she spent $40 on attire and $50 on gas. No other crap to do. She almost didn't even make the rehearsal, which I was upset about, but I'd rather have had to fill her in than not have had her at all. What I'm saying is not every bride is SO high maintenance that she's unwilling to face reality and be flexible when necessary. And if you're that important to her, she'll [have to] be flexible. Negotiate your concerns with her--you are going to be a lawyer after all.

I would be pretty upset if one of my friends said I can't come to your wedding because I'm a 2L and I'm sooooo busy! If I was able to be a bride, DIY our flowers, DIY a lot of other things, during OCI with journal assignments also due three days on either side of the wedding, you have time to come to the damn wedding. A wedding isn't the most important thing in the world, but it's hurtful when your friends aren't willing to find the time to come. If she wants you in the wedding bad enough, she'll give up the secondary things like the stupid satellite parties or $200 bubblegum taffeta bridesmaid dresses. Being in a wedding party doesn't have to be any more time commitment or money commitment than being a regular guest.




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