T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

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homestyle28
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby homestyle28 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:44 pm

Did you do much prep pre-1L? I.e. GTM or other reading that was helpful?

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:46 pm

homestyle28 wrote:Did you do much prep pre-1L? I.e. GTM or other reading that was helpful?


Not much. In fact, I'd recommend against it, for the most part.

The exam is going to be based on your professor's presentation of the material. And it's hard enough to remember something from September when exam time comes, let alone from the summer.

Maybe skim GTM, which I did, but for the most part what you need to learn comes from two places: (1) The casebook; (2) Your professor. I think a lot of people shortchange those two in their mission to find the golden key. And that's a mistake.

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nealric
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby nealric » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:51 pm

ITE you need all the help you can get. Seriously. I've been through OCI and been rejected by plenty of firms. Grades are necessary, but not sufficient for biglaw.


If you didn't get at least 3-4 offers, I guarantee it wasn't the lack of LRW honors holding you back.

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:55 pm

nealric wrote:
ITE you need all the help you can get. Seriously. I've been through OCI and been rejected by plenty of firms. Grades are necessary, but not sufficient for biglaw.


If you didn't get at least 3-4 offers, I guarantee it wasn't the lack of LRW honors holding you back.


I had two offers and then withdrew from two other places where I had not heard back from yet after CB because I accepted one of them.

But it can feel like a crapshoot when you're in the middle of it. Are you a 1L or a 2L?

I don't think lack of LRW honors hold you back necessarily, but it's a nice line to have on the resume is all. Again, I would probably suggest in most cases giving it the brush off in favor of other classes. If you miss one single solitary class because you are working on a LRW assignment, then you are a moron. But I'm just saying it's something to think about.

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nealric
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby nealric » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:56 pm

But it can feel like a crapshoot when you're in the middle of it. Are you a 1L or a 2L?


Neither. I'm a graduate starting biglaw in a couple months.

09042014
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby 09042014 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:07 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:What do you think distinguished you from everyone else.


A few things.

For one thing, I don't g-chat or surf the Web during class or when studying. I don't Facebook during class or when studying. When it's time to get down to business, I'm all business. Now, you'll see a lot of posts around here about how you shouldn't underestimate the people g-chatting during class or skipping class all together. And I agree with that. But, for me, and I think this is true of the average person, I think you need to be present in class mentally and physically, and the same goes for studying.

I stayed on top of things. I never entered a class - not one time - unprepared to discuss that day's reading. You'll read a lot on here about how the cases and the reading don't matter. I don't buy that whatsoever. You should be reading everything, and thinking through it until you internalize it and figure it out.

I used supplements sparingly, but they can be effective if they are the right ones.

I took practice tests under real test conditions. In other words, no 20-minute issue spot and be done with it. I wrote the practice tests the same way I'd write the real deal Holyfield.

I didn't socialize a whole lot. Don't get me wrong. I'm not socially awkward. People like me, and I like people. But f$&$& this stuff you hear about needing "balance" in your life. It is one stinking year of your life, and a ton rides on it, especially ITE. Get your ass in the library, even on Friday and Saturday nights. Even early in the semester. You have one shot at 1L, and you have the rest of your life to achieve "balance." Undergrad is over. Deal with it.


Thanks. My only question is what are you doing in the library on Friday and Saturday nights early in the semester. It seems like I can read my cases twice and still not have to be studying all weekend.

MarkL234
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby MarkL234 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:10 pm

What do you think distinguished you on the actual exam? Not in terms of preparation but what in your actual exam answer made you stand out? Is it just spotting all the issues or something more? What do you think makes a good exam answer?

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:12 pm

MarkL234 wrote:What do you think distinguished you on the actual exam? Not in terms of preparation but what in your actual exam answer made you stand out? Is it just spotting all the issues or something more? What do you think makes a good exam answer?


I think issue-spotting is honestly 99.9 percent of the battle. It is much, much harder than you think. I'll think about what else and try to post more extensively later on about that.

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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:16 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:What do you think distinguished you from everyone else.


A few things.

For one thing, I don't g-chat or surf the Web during class or when studying. I don't Facebook during class or when studying. When it's time to get down to business, I'm all business. Now, you'll see a lot of posts around here about how you shouldn't underestimate the people g-chatting during class or skipping class all together. And I agree with that. But, for me, and I think this is true of the average person, I think you need to be present in class mentally and physically, and the same goes for studying.

I stayed on top of things. I never entered a class - not one time - unprepared to discuss that day's reading. You'll read a lot on here about how the cases and the reading don't matter. I don't buy that whatsoever. You should be reading everything, and thinking through it until you internalize it and figure it out.

I used supplements sparingly, but they can be effective if they are the right ones.

I took practice tests under real test conditions. In other words, no 20-minute issue spot and be done with it. I wrote the practice tests the same way I'd write the real deal Holyfield.

I didn't socialize a whole lot. Don't get me wrong. I'm not socially awkward. People like me, and I like people. But f$&$& this stuff you hear about needing "balance" in your life. It is one stinking year of your life, and a ton rides on it, especially ITE. Get your ass in the library, even on Friday and Saturday nights. Even early in the semester. You have one shot at 1L, and you have the rest of your life to achieve "balance." Undergrad is over. Deal with it.


Thanks. My only question is what are you doing in the library on Friday and Saturday nights early in the semester. It seems like I can read my cases twice and still not have to be studying all weekend.


There is no shortage of things you can do. If you have Property, spend the evening drilling estates. If you have contracts, outline 2-207 until you absolutely own it. Make yourself some BLL flash cards. Read for Monday. Read for Tuesday. (But don't read too far ahead, because you will forget a lot of it). Outline once. Then outline again another way.

I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.

By 7 a.m. on Saturday and Sunday, I was in the books.

In fairness, I should mention I have a SO, so I did try to spend at least a little bit of time with her. But even then, when she'd be reading a novel in bed, I'd be reading Monday's Con Law.

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Helmholtz
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:18 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.


What if I'm up till 3 AM Friday night studying and don't wake up till 10 AM Saturday morning? Can I still has law school success?

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:21 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.


What if I'm up till 3 AM Friday night studying and don't wake up till 10 AM Saturday morning? Can I still has law school success?


I don't think I was ever up past 11 o'clock.

Obviously you can adjust accordingly to your habits. But I do think that keeping a routine is fairly important.

spondee
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby spondee » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:22 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I had two offers and then withdrew from two other places where I had not heard back from yet after CB because I accepted one of them.


You only had 4 CBs? Am I reading this right? That sounds low for a T14 student with top-5% grades...

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:22 pm

spondee wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I had two offers and then withdrew from two other places where I had not heard back from yet after CB because I accepted one of them.


You only had 4 CBs? Am I reading this right? That sounds low for a T14 student with top-5% grades...


Seven CB's. Three CB rejections. Two offers. Two withdrawals.

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thecilent
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby thecilent » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:27 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.


This is, like, pretty hardcore.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:31 pm

thecilent wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.

This is, like, pretty hardcore.

Not only that, but I can definitively say you do not need to do that much work all semester long in order to do well at a T14.

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thecilent
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby thecilent » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:31 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
thecilent wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.

This is, like, pretty hardcore.

Not only that, but I can definitively say you do not need to do that much work all semester long in order to do well at a T14.


Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:32 pm

thecilent wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.


This is, like, pretty hardcore.


I always just thought if I wasn't studying, someone else was.

It sounds stressful, but it actually relieves stress when exams approach. When other people are trying to learn the material, you are already applying it.

The most important step of the entire process is to get that switch flipped from drilling the material to actually forcing yourself to apply it via practice tests or Siegel's books and such.

Writing practice tests is a lot more difficult, mentally, than outlining. Which is why a lot of your classmates will short-change it and convince themselves they know the material because of their gorgeous cross-referenced outline. They will have a false sense of security.

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:32 pm

thecilent wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
thecilent wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm not saying never, ever, ever, ever once go out for dinner or something. But if you're out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night more than once a month, you are approach LS the wrong way. If you are sleeping past 7 or 8 on any day of the week - my alarm was always set for 6, no matter the day - you are approaching LS the wrong way.

This is, like, pretty hardcore.

Not only that, but I can definitively say you do not need to do that much work all semester long in order to do well at a T14.


Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking


Why wouldn't you, though?

What's the downside?

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thecilent
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby thecilent » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:33 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:
thecilent wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:Not only that, but I can definitively say you do not need to do that much work all semester long in order to do well at a T14.


Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking


Why wouldn't you, though?

What's the downside?


Wanting to /self?

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:35 pm

thecilent wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:
thecilent wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:Not only that, but I can definitively say you do not need to do that much work all semester long in order to do well at a T14.


Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking


Why wouldn't you, though?

What's the downside?


Wanting to /self?


1L requires mental toughness. You have to just keep remembering that it's only one year. And that there is a break in between semesters.

I'm always surprised when people say they only needed to study 4-5 hours a day or something like that. I was studying hard-core and felt like I could barely keep up a lot of days.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:36 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:Why wouldn't you, though?

What's the downside?

You mean other than wasting time, overworking yourself, and missing out on having a life when you have a chance to if you're responsible enough about your studies? Kinda like this:

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm always surprised when people say they only needed to study 4-5 hours a day or something like that. I was studying hard-core and felt like I could barely keep up a lot of days.

That's just ridiculous. Yes, at the end of the semester you'll be working your ass off, but there's no reason at all to feel this way a month in.

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thecilent
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby thecilent » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:37 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm always surprised when people say they only needed to study 4-5 hours a day or something like that. I was studying hard-core and felt like I could barely keep up a lot of days.


True, true; I hear ya.

Question regarding supplements: Do you think it all depends on the prof? Or are there any you would recommend in general?

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:38 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:Why wouldn't you, though?

What's the downside?

You mean other than wasting time, overworking yourself, and missing out on having a life when you have a chance to if you're responsible enough about your studies? Kinda like this:

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm always surprised when people say they only needed to study 4-5 hours a day or something like that. I was studying hard-core and felt like I could barely keep up a lot of days.

That's just ridiculous.


Are you a 2L now?

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vanwinkle
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:40 pm

DiscoveryDeadline wrote:Are you a 2L now?

Yes. Transferred from T14 to HLS after successful 1L.

DiscoveryDeadline
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Re: T14, top 5 percent, answering questions

Postby DiscoveryDeadline » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:41 pm

thecilent wrote:
DiscoveryDeadline wrote:I'm always surprised when people say they only needed to study 4-5 hours a day or something like that. I was studying hard-core and felt like I could barely keep up a lot of days.


True, true; I hear ya.

Question regarding supplements: Do you think it all depends on the prof? Or are there any you would recommend in general?


Very few of them, especially once you get the hang of LS. I wasted way too much time and money on supplements. People think they are a magic substitute for preparing for class and paying attention (i.e. not g-chatting and facebooking) in class. They are not.

That being said:

Torts
No recommendation

Property
Gilbert Law Summary
One of the books with future estates problems in them.

Civil Procedure
Glannon Guide
Intro to Civ Pro by Freer
E&E

Contracts
U.C.C. Hornbook by White & Summers

Con Law
Chemerinsky

Crim Law
Dressler Black Letter Law Outline




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