Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

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sethc
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Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby sethc » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:42 pm

Ok, I didn't look but I can probably safely assume this is the millionth post about this particular subject.

I'm a 1L (first term) at Cooley. So, it's important to note that I just came out of my Week 3 Property Law I class.

The material expected to be read before today's class was regarding the Rule of Perpetuities/Future Interests. In Week 2, the reading/lectured covered what, in and of themselves, what possessory and future interests were. That part I stumbled a tad with, but I grasped it pretty well not long after that.

Now, I read the required pages regarding RAP/FI. It was honestly like reading a book typed with Wingdings font. I simply just could NOT wrap my head around that shit. I finally gave up at about 2:30am and went to bed hoping the lecture would wipe away some of the muddiness. No luck. I did not daze off in class and I wrote down every relevant thing he said and every hypo that my typing speed could keep up with. It's still not clicking. At all. Now, the professor doesn't have the reputation of being the best lecturer in the world.. and be that as it may or may not, I don't like using those sorts of things as crutches.

The Nutshell supplements have been helping me greatly in other courses as well as everything else in Property.. but it didn't do much in the way of RAP. I just bought the "green book" today, but haven't had a chance to look it over.. anyone have any thoughts on it?

A couple friends that are 2Ls in other places find it very puzzling that I'm being taught RAP so early. Is it a good idea to kind of "tuck it away" insomuch as that, in later stages of the course, I'll understand it better? Or should I forgo that and go full steam ahead trying to spend every waking minute I have practicing these?

For what it's worth, the reading covered USRAP as well, but we haven't reached that far in the lecture yet.

Honestly, I sat down after coming home from class today and couldn't block the thought of "If I'm not understanding this now, then do I even need to be in law school?" Am I overreacting or is this a big red flag in my mind that I should pay attention to? As facetious or silly it may sound, it's really bothering me.

Aside from the above, I'd really like some advice on how to approach RAP or your thoughts on learning it. Any insight, tips, pointers, or other opinions are certainly welcome!

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:13 pm

Disclaimer: have not taken property yet.

I have heard that this could be helpful-

--LinkRemoved--

sethc
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby sethc » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:49 pm

Thanks man. It looks lengthy, but I'll definitely check it out this weekend.

Anyone else's thoughts?

Black-Blue
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:57 pm

The RAP is

“No interest is good unless it must vest, if at all, not later than twenty-one years after the death of some life in being at the creation of the interest.”

I think the trickiest part is "must vest, if at all." This basically means that it must either vest with 100% certainly, or it is 100% certain that it fails to vest.

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thuggishruggishbone
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby thuggishruggishbone » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:41 pm

you just gotta look for the validating life, dood

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JPeavy44
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby JPeavy44 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:46 pm

RAP gets really easy in time. You won't get it now, no one does don't worry.

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nealric
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby nealric » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:52 am

The key is to remember that it's a pretty simply concept that is made difficult by archaic terminology.

Basically, the deal is that you don't want to allow people to control property from beyond the grave. It would be problematic if the law had to enforce wills with provisions like: "I give my house to my son, but if alcohol is ever consumed at my house, the house should go to my cousin Bob". The problem is that if alcohol is consumed 100 years later at the house and someone somehow tried to enforce the old will, it would be a royal mess trying to hash out who rightfully owned the property. To solve the problem, the law has arbitrarily chosen the time period of "A life in being + 21 years" as the cutoff for provisions that control the use of a property beyond the owner's death.

To learn how to answer RAP questions, you just need to memorize what the terminology means. For example: Fee Simply Absolute = You own the property free and clear. Just make up a chart with the terms in one column and their meaning in the other. Once you have done that, you just need to work on understanding the "vesting" concept.

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jp0094
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby jp0094 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:42 pm

sethc wrote:Ok, I didn't look but I can probably safely assume this is the millionth post about this particular subject.

I'm a 1L (first term) at Cooley. So, it's important to note that I just came out of my Week 3 Property Law I class.


:shock:

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:20 pm

jp0094 wrote:
sethc wrote:Ok, I didn't look but I can probably safely assume this is the millionth post about this particular subject.

I'm a 1L (first term) at Cooley. So, it's important to note that I just came out of my Week 3 Property Law I class.


:shock:

This is not how we behave in the Forum for Law School Students. It is fine to make fun of Cooley. It is not fine to make fun of someone for going to Cooley.

hth

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johnnyutah
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby johnnyutah » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:38 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:This is not how we behave in the Forum for Law School Students. It is fine to make fun of Cooley. It is not fine to make fun of someone for going to Cooley.

Jessep
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby Jessep » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:04 am

I graduated from law school, took the bar, working at a large law firm and still don't understand RAP well. Don't let it get to you. It's a very, very small part of law school/practice.

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inchoate_con
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby inchoate_con » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:29 am

mikeytwoshoes wrote:This is not how we behave in the Forum for Law School Students. It is fine to make fun of Cooley. It is not fine to make fun of someone for going to Cooley.

Refreshing

Bankhead
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby Bankhead » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:47 am

1. I'm not going to help you understand the rule, sorry.
2. This is probably the most difficult concept you will encounter in 1L, so don't think you don't belong in law school or something because you are having trouble with this. Everyone has trouble with RAP.
3. This, like all concepts, is understandable if you sink a lot of hours into it. Law school, learning the law, is a massive time sink.

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truthypants
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby truthypants » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:07 am

best way to learn rap is by doing a bunch of problems. i recommend doing the problems in the workbook by john makdisi

270910
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby 270910 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:41 am

1) It's the rule against prepetuities. That's actually pretty important conceptually.

2) Nobody understands property law. Matthies said it best:

Matthies wrote:[M]y actual answer from for a RAP hypo from my proptery exam:

At this point the only person I know for sure that does NOT own Blackacre is me, because if I did own it I would have given up on this hypo hours ago and enjoyed my trust fund. But alas I actually have extra words left, and no clue, so I might as well take a shot and hope something sticks to the grading outline.

The way I see it there could be three possible owners of Blackacre after this.

First is the trust fiduciary, LurceBank, as the trust owns the assets in equity for the beneficiaries, thus would own it in the end.

Next could be Nancy, without any Mike spawn the interest vests in her, and she gets away with Blackacre.

Finally there could be a reversion to Karen, in which case the RAP does not apply (if only I could be so lucky) and she owns it again.

I guess I won’t be taking Trusts and Estates any time soon.

Ened up getting an A. Everyone hates and sucks at property, so you don't have to know it pat, just give it your best shot, everyone is going to have trouble with proetry.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:56 am

RAP is a bitch (note its the "rule against" not the "rule of").

In all seriousness, RAP (for 95% of attorneys out there), is something you just need to understand (sorta), for your property final, trust and estates class and possibly the bar (man was I happy when the NY bar examiners skipped that sucker on my exam). Just do practice problems, as someone else already suggested and get a working understanding of how to apply it and thats really good enough.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby johnnyutah » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:45 am

Jessep wrote:I graduated from law school, took the bar, working at a large law firm and still don't understand RAP well. Don't let it get to you. It's a very, very small part of law school/practice.

My property professor never even taught it.

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nealric
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby nealric » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:25 am

My property professor never even taught it


Neither did mine. Had to learn it for the bar though.

Renzo
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby Renzo » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:28 am

johnnyutah wrote:
Jessep wrote:I graduated from law school, took the bar, working at a large law firm and still don't understand RAP well. Don't let it get to you. It's a very, very small part of law school/practice.

My property professor never even taught it.


Mine said, "I expect you to be able to spot a RAP problem, so that if it ever comes up in practice you know to call someone else who can figure it out for you."

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Corsair
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby Corsair » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:10 am

..

bradley
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby bradley » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:35 am

Some schools have statutes exempting attorneys from malpractice suits for fucking up a RAP problem.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:01 pm

bradley wrote:Some schools have statutes exempting attorneys from malpractice suits for fucking up a RAP problem.

:?:

sethc
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Re: Rule of Perpetuities - OMG.

Postby sethc » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:40 pm

Thanks for all the help, you guys made me feel a lot better about this stupid concept. It certainly demoralized me this past week in terms of my outlook on my law school ability in general.

As for the above poster who flamed me for going to Cooley, what's the deal dude? It's not like I'm happy about it.. tons of thanks for the next poster that discouraged that stuff. If I had the choice to go somewhere else, I would..




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