how long are your outlines thus far?

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goosey
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how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby goosey » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:46 pm

just want to make sure I'm not going into unnecc detail or conversely, not enough detail.

All intentional torts are done and the outline is 7 pages

up to personal jurisdiction in civpro (consent, general person, specific personal, notice, venue and constitutional tenets) is 5 pages

my crim law outline isnt up to date yet but interested in seeing what other ppl have that have started outlines already

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dgouzoul
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby dgouzoul » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:50 pm

jesus

dakatz
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby dakatz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:58 pm

The length of your outline is irrelevant. It is all about putting in whatever level of detail YOU need to remember the law, jog your memory about the relevant cases, and see the big picture.

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goosey
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby goosey » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:11 pm

dakatz wrote:The length of your outline is irrelevant. It is all about putting in whatever level of detail YOU need to remember the law, jog your memory about the relevant cases, and see the big picture.


got it.

I actually dont have relevant cases in there..just case names. I should probably add a line about the case

dakatz
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby dakatz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:16 pm

goosey wrote:
dakatz wrote:The length of your outline is irrelevant. It is all about putting in whatever level of detail YOU need to remember the law, jog your memory about the relevant cases, and see the big picture.


got it.

I actually dont have relevant cases in there..just case names. I should probably add a line about the case


With the cases, I put the name and a VERY short description of the facts just to remind myself which case it is. Underneath it, I put whatever relevant rule or principle seemed to follow from the case. For example, in the battery section, we had 4 cases, each one stressing a different principle of battery (i.e. extended personality, specific vs. general intent, single vs. dual theory of intent, etc.). So I put whatever rule follows, and then perhaps a line of description elaborating on it.

270910
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby 270910 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:34 pm

dakatz wrote:The length of your outline is irrelevant. It is all about putting in whatever level of detail YOU need to remember the law, jog your memory about the relevant cases, and see the big picture.


+1

For the record, my longest ever was 30 pages, and I was most proud of my 10-15 pagers. A lot of the challenge of law school is filtering the wheat from the endless fields of hypothetical, fact sensitive, alternative interpretation chaff.

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Grizz
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby Grizz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:00 pm

Right now? 0 pages.

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RayFinkle
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby RayFinkle » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:33 pm

You can usually boil the necessary details about a case down to a few words. (Intent can transfer, etc.)

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BruceWayne
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:56 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Counterproductive to be outlining at this point. Wait until you have a better sense of the material as a whole, or at least until a discrete chunk of the course has been covered (e.g., all intentional torts).


What school do you attend?

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goosey
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby goosey » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:58 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Counterproductive to be outlining at this point. Wait until you have a better sense of the material as a whole, or at least until a discrete chunk of the course has been covered (e.g., all intentional torts).


yeah, I know what you mean. we are done with all intentional torts and thats the part I outlined..we will finish defenses this week and Ill probably outline that next weekend.

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goosey
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby goosey » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:00 pm

betasteve wrote:
goosey wrote:just want to make sure I'm not going into unnecc detail or conversely, not enough detail.

All intentional torts are done and the outline is 7 pages

up to personal jurisdiction in civpro (consent, general person, specific personal, notice, venue and constitutional tenets) is 5 pages

my crim law outline isnt up to date yet but interested in seeing what other ppl have that have started outlines already

^ Doing it wrong.
rad law wrote:Right now? 0 pages.

^ Doing it right.



curious about this.

what are the cons of outlining as you finish a section? and what are the pros about doing it towards the end

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Doritos
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby Doritos » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:13 pm

goosey i'm with you. I looked @ my notes, and 3 old outlines (same subject, same prof) and put together outlines for civpro and torts for what we've covered thus far. I mean those old outlines do not have anything not in my notes so why not put them in outline form? My civpro prof specifically said we are done w/ subject mater so why not outline it?

Related question: has anyone started doing practice exams? Like doing the sections of the exam that your class has covered?

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BruceWayne
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:17 pm

Doritos wrote:goosey i'm with you. I looked @ my notes, and 3 old outlines (same subject, same prof) and put together outlines for civpro and torts for what we've covered thus far. I mean those old outlines do not have anything not in my notes so why not put them in outline form? My civpro prof specifically said we are done w/ subject mater so why not outline it?

Related question: has anyone started doing practice exams? Like doing the sections of the exam that your class has covered?


I was with you until the bolded--that's just ridiculous; there is no way we are in a position to start taking practice tests yet.

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Doritos
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby Doritos » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:20 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Doritos wrote:goosey i'm with you. I looked @ my notes, and 3 old outlines (same subject, same prof) and put together outlines for civpro and torts for what we've covered thus far. I mean those old outlines do not have anything not in my notes so why not put them in outline form? My civpro prof specifically said we are done w/ subject mater so why not outline it?

Related question: has anyone started doing practice exams? Like doing the sections of the exam that your class has covered?


I was with you until the bolded--that's just ridiculous; there is no way we are in a position to start taking practice tests yet.


I know a few people who have taken parts of exams already. I don't want to be left behind and end up jobless and homeless

spondee
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby spondee » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:21 pm

You can definitely start outlining, and you can definitely start doing (some parts) of practice exams. Why not? So long as you've finished discrete sections...

Trust yourself. You know what your strengths and weaknesses are; and you know how you learn material and how you build skills.

spondee
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby spondee » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:22 pm

Doritos wrote:I know a few people who have taken parts of exams already. I don't want to be left behind and end up jobless and homeless


But this isn't a good reason. (Assuming you were serious.) Don't base your study habits off what everyone else is doing.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:22 pm

goosey wrote:

curious about this.

what are the cons of outlining as you finish a section? and what are the pros about doing it towards the end



Because it is it the act of outlining, not the outline that is most valuable. Doing the outline now means that you will be passively going over the outline when it comes time to study for exams. For some people this is enough (though if you are one of them, then you might as well use someone else's outline from the beginning and just annotate it). Generally, though, the act of outlining at the end of the semester is a way of synthesizing the material and thinking about it holistically.

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Doritos
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby Doritos » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:26 pm

LurkerNoMore wrote:
goosey wrote:

curious about this.

what are the cons of outlining as you finish a section? and what are the pros about doing it towards the end



Because it is it the act of outlining, not the outline that is most valuable. Doing the outline now means that you will be passively going over the outline when it comes time to study for exams. For some people this is enough (though if you are one of them, then you might as well use someone else's outline from the beginning and just annotate it). Generally, though, the act of outlining at the end of the semester is a way of synthesizing the material and thinking about it holistically.


That sounds like cramming to me. Why not think holistically about the subject matter all semester, actively learning it, then just take a ton of practice exams while everyone else is outlining?

dakatz
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby dakatz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:28 pm

LurkerNoMore wrote:
goosey wrote:

curious about this.

what are the cons of outlining as you finish a section? and what are the pros about doing it towards the end



Because it is it the act of outlining, not the outline that is most valuable. Doing the outline now means that you will be passively going over the outline when it comes time to study for exams. For some people this is enough (though if you are one of them, then you might as well use someone else's outline from the beginning and just annotate it). Generally, though, the act of outlining at the end of the semester is a way of synthesizing the material and thinking about it holistically.


But wouldn't that time be better spent taking practice exams and working through hypotheticals than creating the outline for the first time? And creating an outline now doesn't mean that one just makes it once, and that is that. By starting now, I feel like I can review and revise it all semester long. That way it is ingrained in my head by the time the semester is ending, and I can focus on the exams without worrying about synthesizing for the first time stuff.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:32 pm

Whatever works for you all. Seriously. I was giving the reason against doing them early. Personally I find outlining a complete waste of time. I didn't make them at all. One class I felt oddly compelled to try. Worst exam I'd ever taken at law school.

The biggest thing is to know the way you learn. Stick with it. If a system is allowing you to synthesize the material, stick with it and stop asking for advice or comparing yourself to others.

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goosey
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby goosey » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:02 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Doritos wrote:goosey i'm with you. I looked @ my notes, and 3 old outlines (same subject, same prof) and put together outlines for civpro and torts for what we've covered thus far. I mean those old outlines do not have anything not in my notes so why not put them in outline form? My civpro prof specifically said we are done w/ subject mater so why not outline it?

Related question: has anyone started doing practice exams? Like doing the sections of the exam that your class has covered?


I was with you until the bolded--that's just ridiculous; there is no way we are in a position to start taking practice tests yet.



totally. I am not going to take practice tests till the end of october. I was told not to start exams until we're 2/3 done with the course

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worldtraveler
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:06 pm

Wow I'm scared to find out what you guys will be like in November/December.

ExcitedBlutterance
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby ExcitedBlutterance » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:12 pm

worldtraveler wrote:Wow I'm scared to find out what you guys will be like in November/December.

+1

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GeePee
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby GeePee » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:31 pm

Discussing penis length would be more useful than this.

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BruceWayne
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Re: how long are your outlines thus far?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:35 pm

Doritos wrote:I know a few people who have taken parts of exams already. I don't want to be left behind and end up jobless and homeless


All the more reason not to be doing them now. I'm just a fellow 1L but some things are common sense. Look at it like this, would you take a practice test for a final exam in calculus during the first month of the class? Hell no--because you do not even know 90 percent of what could/will be tested. This logic applies doubly for law school since the only type of exam we have is a cumulative final exam. How can we prepare for a cumulative final exam without the cumulative knowledge? If we take practice exams now we are only tricking ourselves into thinking we know more than what we actually do (giving us a false sense of security/confidence). On top of that at some point you have to realize that we do go to a good school. I'm not saying we're guaranteed anything but we aren't at some tier 3 school (no offense to people at those schools). I know people at some pretty mediocre schools who are still getting jobs.

GeePee wrote:Discussing penis length would be more useful than this.


OK--- If the chick is really bad I usually come in somewhere around 7.5 inches. Nothing spectacular but it gets the job done.




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