In which we complain about HelLRW

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savagedm
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby savagedm » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:19 pm

Ugh I was up till midnight last night doing my first memo draft. I hate how brutally repetitive the law is for every argument. In our case it was a three part test, but each part was related to each other, so we had to slightly restate every argument with a new twist in every section.

taylort
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby taylort » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:36 am

Anyone else have 3 memos for first semester (and blue book exercises)?

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beach_terror
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby beach_terror » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:04 pm

taylort wrote:Anyone else have 3 memos for first semester (and blue book exercises)?


How long for each memo? We have a 15 page, one in the 20's, then the big 40 page one. And of course, the evil ICW BB exercises.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:21 pm

40 pages?

How many cases does that include?

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savagedm
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby savagedm » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:33 pm

beach_terror wrote:
taylort wrote:Anyone else have 3 memos for first semester (and blue book exercises)?


How long for each memo? We have a 15 page, one in the 20's, then the big 40 page one. And of course, the evil ICW BB exercises.


We have one or two memos first semester, but we have to do 3 drafts of each. Also have a bluebook exam. The reality is if your memo is over 8 pages, unless you're briefing some sort of civil right's case that will be the precedent for the next 150 years, you are writing too much.

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beach_terror
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby beach_terror » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:54 pm

savagedm wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
taylort wrote:Anyone else have 3 memos for first semester (and blue book exercises)?


How long for each memo? We have a 15 page, one in the 20's, then the big 40 page one. And of course, the evil ICW BB exercises.


We have one or two memos first semester, but we have to do 3 drafts of each. Also have a bluebook exam. The reality is if your memo is over 8 pages, unless you're briefing some sort of civil right's case that will be the precedent for the next 150 years, you are writing too much.


Yeah, I mean we have one due next week which is ~13 pages. I may be mistaken about the other lengths, it was more of a heard through the grapevine type of deal from other students here. Emailed my prof just to see.

Edit: It will be "substantial", and considering our first practice memo is 13, I'm guessing it has to be a decent bit longer than that? Who knows, meh, it's only 1.5 credits.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:40 pm

kalvano wrote:I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

False
If we are supposed to learn to write like lawyers, stop giving me 5th-grade workbook assignments and give me writing assignments that I will receive feedback on. We have about 6 writing assignments, and will only receive feedback on one. That's stupid.

True but you better get used to it.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:48 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
kalvano wrote:I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

False


I spent half my undergrad looking up citations. It's stupidly easy to figure out.

mikeytwoshoes wrote:True but you better get used to it.


I think you missed the point of this thread.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:06 pm

kalvano wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:
kalvano wrote:I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

False


I spent half my undergrad looking up citations. It's stupidly easy to figure out.

mikeytwoshoes wrote:True but you better get used to it.


I think you missed the point of this thread.

You will never fully understand how to use the BB until you write for a journal. Sure you can find the citation in the book, but you won't see how they fit together until you check an article for proper citation. You will never get meaningful or responsive feedback in law school. I understand the thread (venting frustrations); I started a similar thread last spring. You do have understand that the lack of feedback is permanent.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:12 pm

Yes, you will fully understand how to use the BB.

Find case.
Look up in BB.
Use appropriately.
The end.

I'm glad you feel as if being able to appropriately cite something is a major accomplishment, but it's not really.

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rbgrocio
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:32 pm

After you first year you will realize that Civ. Pro and Legal Writing are the two most useful classes! Try to make the most out of it. I found legal writing extremely helpful.

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rbgrocio
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:33 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
kalvano wrote:I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

False
If we are supposed to learn to write like lawyers, stop giving me 5th-grade workbook assignments and give me writing assignments that I will receive feedback on. We have about 6 writing assignments, and will only receive feedback on one. That's stupid.

True but you better get used to it.


I agree with the "false" to the first statement. You will realize how little bluebooking you know when you tryout for law review.

dakatz
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby dakatz » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:40 pm

Spent all day yesterday working on first draft of closed memo assignment. Glad to have it out of the way, though I need to edit the whole thing, as well as tweak the citations that I'm not sure are correct. Had a page limit of 6, so I really had to be concise. I really wish I had an extra 2 pages to get all the little points I"d like to make into that memo. Yes, it took a long time, and it was a bit nerve-wracking, but it wasn't too bad. I somewhat enjoy writing assignments, though it did take an entire day away from reading and outlining.

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dailygrind
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby dailygrind » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:47 am

rbgrocio wrote:After you first year you will realize that Civ. Pro and Legal Writing are the two most useful classes! Try to make the most out of it. I found legal writing extremely helpful.


lol. these are the two classes i despise. shittttttttt.

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onthecusp
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby onthecusp » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:25 am

rbgrocio wrote:After you first year you will realize that Civ. Pro and Legal Writing are the two most useful classes! Try to make the most out of it. I found legal writing extremely helpful.


I'm calling BS on the legal writing bit.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:01 am

No, LW is actually the only class that really teaches you practical lawyering skills.

Except I hate the way they teach it. Too much bullshit, not enough practice at the things that matter.

taylort
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby taylort » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:35 pm

beach_terror wrote:
taylort wrote:Anyone else have 3 memos for first semester (and blue book exercises)?


How long for each memo? We have a 15 page, one in the 20's, then the big 40 page one. And of course, the evil ICW BB exercises.


9 page closed memo, ungraded, no bluebook form citation required

8 page closed memo graded with correct citation form

? length open memo graded. No details on it yet.

Second memo due Monday, so back to work for me. Good luck

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:12 pm

rbgrocio wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:
kalvano wrote:I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

False
If we are supposed to learn to write like lawyers, stop giving me 5th-grade workbook assignments and give me writing assignments that I will receive feedback on. We have about 6 writing assignments, and will only receive feedback on one. That's stupid.

True but you better get used to it.


I agree with the "false" to the first statement. You will realize how little bluebooking you know when you tryout for law review.

Some examples:
You will never have done a string cite, cited a law review article, cited an online book, decided whether to cite the online version or the print version, or hated smallcaps.

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rbgrocio
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:23 pm

onthecusp wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:After you first year you will realize that Civ. Pro and Legal Writing are the two most useful classes! Try to make the most out of it. I found legal writing extremely helpful.


I'm calling BS on the legal writing bit.



Have u gone through a summer at a law firm??? If so... I don't see how you don't find it useful! It teaches you great analytical school, more so than any other class.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:28 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:Some examples:
You will never have done a string cite, cited a law review article, cited an online book, decided whether to cite the online version or the print version, or hated smallcaps.



No, I won't. However, looking up how to do them is not a difficult task. Hence my frustration with being required to spend several days learning how to use the Blue Book.

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rbgrocio
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:34 pm

kalvano wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:Some examples:
You will never have done a string cite, cited a law review article, cited an online book, decided whether to cite the online version or the print version, or hated smallcaps.



No, I won't. However, looking up how to do them is not a difficult task. Hence my frustration with being required to spend several days learning how to use the Blue Book.



Again, you won't know until you tryout for law review. It took us 3 days to figure out 80 citations.

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beach_terror
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby beach_terror » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:49 pm

Lexis just crashed while I was on the last problem of my ICW homework. If it didn't save the 9 I completed before it, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

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traehekat
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby traehekat » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:19 pm

Had a horrible dream last night that I wasn't able to print my memo and physically turn it in, and somehow time jumped forward when I tried to email it, and the email was sent 17 minutes after the deadline. I tried to explain my plight to the professor, but all he could do was offer me 98% on the next assignment (whatever the hell THAT means).

I don't have law school related dreams too often, but when I do they are pretty weird.

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A'nold
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby A'nold » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:24 pm

Realize that this is coming from somebody that hated LRW more than anybody in my section. I was known as the LRW hater, haha:

It really is a very helpful class when it comes to preparing you for what you will do, at least during summer internships. I drafted many memos this summer.

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rbgrocio
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby rbgrocio » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:39 pm

A'nold wrote:Realize that this is coming from somebody that hated LRW more than anybody in my section. I was known as the LRW hater, haha:

It really is a very helpful class when it comes to preparing you for what you will do, at least during summer internships. I drafted many memos this summer.




+1. I did not do memos, but I did appellate briefs, which you will do in legal writing 2. I also did, and continue to do, tons of motions. LRW is a really really helpful class.




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