In which we complain about HelLRW

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FunkyJD
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby FunkyJD » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:29 pm

disco_barred wrote:At the end of most legal research courses, the people who think they won (awards for memos/arguments, high grades, etc) are really just broadcasting their misplaced priorities to the world of legal recruiters.

If I ever interview a candidate, any kind of distinction in a 1L research/methods class is an auto-ding.


You've got my attention. Explain why this is.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:45 pm

People get awards? Other than a good grade?

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Charles Barkley
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Charles Barkley » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:52 pm

Screw ICW workbook online.

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Doritos
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Doritos » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:04 pm

kalvano wrote:People get awards? Other than a good grade?


I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...

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BruceWayne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:51 pm

Doritos wrote:
kalvano wrote:People get awards? Other than a good grade?


I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...


Only for best brief or best oral argument though--right? Slaving away on your memo won't get you one.

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vamedic03
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby vamedic03 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:40 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Doritos wrote:
kalvano wrote:People get awards? Other than a good grade?


I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...


Only for best brief or best oral argument though--right? Slaving away on your memo won't get you one.


UVA LRW: Fall - 1 person from each section receives best memo award; Spring - 1 person / section receives best brief award; 1 person / section receives best oral argument

Not worth busting your butt to gun for... grades come first

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BruceWayne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:49 am

vamedic03 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Doritos wrote:
kalvano wrote:People get awards? Other than a good grade?


I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...


Only for best brief or best oral argument though--right? Slaving away on your memo won't get you one.


UVA LRW: Fall - 1 person from each section receives best memo award; Spring - 1 person / section receives best brief award; 1 person / section receives best oral argument

Not worth busting your butt to gun for... grades come first



Yeah I'm sorry but I'm just not willing to gun for that. Forget outlining early, forget taking practice exams now, forget staying at the library until close---the ultimate sign of a gunner is going for the best memo award; going for best memo is just insane.

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dailygrind
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby dailygrind » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:58 am

BruceWayne wrote:
billyez wrote:It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.



You and I go to the same school so I can really really identify with you on this. The memo we have due this week is going to take up an insane amount of time. It's really getting on my nerves because I have reading I need to get done (that I'm more motivated to do because those classes will determine our job prospects) and I just feel like I'm wasting time whenever I work on LRW. I hate to say this but I really may begin to just turn in subpar work in LRW; I need a job first and foremost.


yeah, i dunno if our section has the same memo, but it could take an insane amount of time if i did it to standards. i'm planning on slacking off a bit, but i'm guessing it'll probably take as much time as any 2 other classes.

i am insanely grateful that this shit is pass/fail.

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:58 pm

dailygrind wrote:i am insanely grateful that this shit is pass/fail.

+1. For some reason I had it in my mind that it was graded at our school, and when I got confirmation that it was P/F, I felt much more confident that I'd still want to be alive at the end of the semester.

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Doritos
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Doritos » Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:27 am

BruceWayne wrote:

Yeah I'm sorry but I'm just not willing to gun for that. Forget outlining early, forget taking practice exams now, forget staying at the library until close---the ultimate sign of a gunner is going for the best memo award; going for best memo is just insane.



I do practice memos after my practice exams when I'm at the library until it closes.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:37 pm

Seriously, fuck Bing. I'm glad he shot that asshole.

His whole defense should be "he needed killing."

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TTH
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby TTH » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:55 pm

My school does LR first semester, LW second semester. LR is graded and on a curve, with a final consisting of shit like explain the difference between sources and bluebooking. Grr

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BruceWayne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:08 pm

TTH wrote:My school does LR first semester, LW second semester. LR is graded and on a curve, with a final consisting of shit like explain the difference between sources and bluebooking. Grr


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Thirteen
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Thirteen » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:14 pm

kalvano wrote:Seriously, fuck Bing. I'm glad he shot that asshole.

His whole defense should be "he needed killing."


Agreed.

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beach_terror
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby beach_terror » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:25 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
TTH wrote:My school does LR first semester, LW second semester. LR is graded and on a curve, with a final consisting of shit like explain the difference between sources and bluebooking. Grr


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Wow, that sucks. How many credits?

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:37 pm

I wouldn't even know how to begin approaching that prompt. The difference between sources and bluebooking? Like, what's the difference between the case you're looking at and the way you cite it?

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A'nold
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby A'nold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:44 pm

Disco:

I would have felt that way if not for my own experience. I didn't put any extra effort into LRW and won best brief for a state-wide competition (that I did not enter but was entered by a prof) that came with a plaque, distinction at a ceremony, and money award.........

I really didn't put any extra time into it.

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nealric
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby nealric » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:45 am

Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.


LRW is to real legal practice as playing Microsoft Flight Simulator is to flying a 747. I love actual legal writing. LRW assignments were probably the most annoying academic assignments I've ever done.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:18 pm

Charles Barkley wrote:Screw ICW workbook online.

+100000000000000000000

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:48 pm

nealric wrote:
Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.


LRW is to real legal practice as playing Microsoft Flight Simulator is to flying a 747. I love actual legal writing. LRW assignments were probably the most annoying academic assignments I've ever done.



All of the sample memos I see in books don't look anything like what we are being told to do.

bigben
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby bigben » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:10 pm

nealric wrote:
Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.


LRW is to real legal practice as playing Microsoft Flight Simulator is to flying a 747. I love actual legal writing. LRW assignments were probably the most annoying academic assignments I've ever done.

In my experience, legal writing class assignments are basically the same as litigation practice. Roughly the same format, essentially the same process of research and writing, same style, etc. The only difference is that the substance of the class assignments is designed to be a pain in the ass. In practice, the issues are usually more straightforward than that--but certainly not always.

I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.

laborday
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby laborday » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:49 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
disco_barred wrote:At the end of most legal research courses, the people who think they won (awards for memos/arguments, high grades, etc) are really just broadcasting their misplaced priorities to the world of legal recruiters.

If I ever interview a candidate, any kind of distinction in a 1L research/methods class is an auto-ding.


You've got my attention. Explain why this is.


Same question: please explain why you would auto-ding someone who got a distinction in a 1L research/methods class?

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nealric
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby nealric » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:56 pm

I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.


I hated it because the issues were always silly and contrived, and you already knew the answer going in. Also, you were evaluated based on whether you italicized periods or not- not whether you made a convincing argument (at least in my LRW class).

savagecheater
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby savagecheater » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:01 pm

nealric wrote:
I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.


I hated it because the issues were always silly and contrived, and you already knew the answer going in. Also, you were evaluated based on whether you italicized periods or not- not whether you made a convincing argument (at least in my LRW class).

THIS

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:23 pm

nealric wrote:
I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.


I hated it because the issues were always silly and contrived, and you already knew the answer going in. Also, you were evaluated based on whether you italicized periods or not- not whether you made a convincing argument (at least in my LRW class).


That's goddamn right.




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