In which we complain about HelLRW

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Melkaba
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Melkaba » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:12 pm

Legal Research "Mid-Term" demolished. Still, pretty strange that this is still going to be curved when it pretty much resembled a typical undergraduate exam. Oh well, no more Research until next semester, but I still have Writing (and a massive memo draft due on Monday. *Sigh*)

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OGR3
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby OGR3 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:19 pm

I like legal writing. :D

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chicoalto0649
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby chicoalto0649 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:22 pm

OGR3 wrote:I like legal writing. :D


I don't hate it. Our topic is really interesting and for me its a nice break from my substantive classes which just drag on and on and on

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dailygrind
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby dailygrind » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:24 pm

i appreciate legal writing and what it's done for my ability to understand my other classes. i hate it because it's one more thing to do in an already busy schedule, and it often makes me stay up until 3 or 4.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:28 pm

Borhas wrote:LWR wasn't that bad, seriously school's not that bad, quit bitching all of you (who are bitching)



LRW sucks not because of the work, but because of the inane academic idiocy and bureaucracy that goes along with it.

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stratocophic
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby stratocophic » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:31 pm

kalvano wrote:
Borhas wrote:LWR wasn't that bad, seriously school's not that bad, quit bitching all of you (who are bitching)



LRW sucks not because of the work, but because of the inane academic idiocy and bureaucracy that goes along with it.
My open memo research disagrees with you wholeheartedly

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dailygrind
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby dailygrind » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:41 pm

stratocophic wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Borhas wrote:LWR wasn't that bad, seriously school's not that bad, quit bitching all of you (who are bitching)



LRW sucks not because of the work, but because of the inane academic idiocy and bureaucracy that goes along with it.
My open memo research disagrees with you wholeheartedly


it's sucked up most of my day. i'm totally doing a terrible job on some of this, just to get it out of the way. section award for best memo? fuckit, i want nothing to do with that.

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:01 pm

It's incredible how frustrating the research aspect is. That does not bode well for the long-term...

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:21 pm

clintonius wrote:It's incredible how frustrating the research aspect is. That does not bode well for the long-term...

I'm actually really good at the research portion. I'd be happy to answer questions, unless you're working on a final with honor code implcations.

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:33 pm

Thanks, I appreciate it. I've actually turned out to be good at it, too -- but the first few hours of any given project usually have me tearing my hair out with frustration. I think it's just part of the game for me.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:34 pm

I find the research pretty easy.

Texas Jurisprudence ----> Statutes --------> West Key Digest ---------> Shepherdize --------> Write.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:34 pm

stratocophic wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Borhas wrote:LWR wasn't that bad, seriously school's not that bad, quit bitching all of you (who are bitching)



LRW sucks not because of the work, but because of the inane academic idiocy and bureaucracy that goes along with it.
My open memo research disagrees with you wholeheartedly


I don't mind the work. Part of it. I actually kind of enjoy the research.

keg411
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby keg411 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:35 pm

OGR3 wrote:I like legal writing. :D


You're not alone :).
My prof is really nice, which helps. In a lot of the sections the profs seem to take pleasure in demolishing memos.

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:45 pm

kalvano wrote:I find the research pretty easy.

Texas Jurisprudence ----> Statutes --------> West Key Digest ---------> Shepherdize --------> Write.

I like to find federal cases too. Even though they aren't binding, they are often well reasoned, and they usually contain a full history of the relevant case law with citations. I snapped off a few of my moot court competitors with a federal case that explained the standard really well. Other than that, +1.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:50 pm

JazzOne wrote:
kalvano wrote:I find the research pretty easy.

Texas Jurisprudence ----> Statutes --------> West Key Digest ---------> Shepherdize --------> Write.

I like to find federal cases too. Even though they aren't binding, they are often well reasoned, and they usually contain a full history of the relevant case law with citations. I snapped off a few of my moot court competitors with a federal case that explained the standard really well. Other than that, +1.


I look at them too, but I keep them separate. We were told would fail if we used federal cases as cites in a state law memo.

But West lists all the fed cases too, so if one is really on point, I'll take a look.

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:54 pm

kalvano wrote:We were told would fail if we used federal cases as cites in a state law memo.
Jesus H Christ, what?

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:56 pm

kalvano wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kalvano wrote:I find the research pretty easy.

Texas Jurisprudence ----> Statutes --------> West Key Digest ---------> Shepherdize --------> Write.

I like to find federal cases too. Even though they aren't binding, they are often well reasoned, and they usually contain a full history of the relevant case law with citations. I snapped off a few of my moot court competitors with a federal case that explained the standard really well. Other than that, +1.


I look at them too, but I keep them separate. We were told would fail if we used federal cases as cites in a state law memo.

But West lists all the fed cases too, so if one is really on point, I'll take a look.

That's ridiculous. State judges respect federal opinions. I would never cite a Circuit opinion instead of a binding case, but if the reasoning is solid, I'm sure as hell going to mention it.

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Borhas
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Borhas » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:02 pm

If I was a state judge, I would wipe my ass with a federal opinion then secede my court from the union

/drunk idiot

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:02 pm

My LRW teacher is somewhat...set...in her ways.

As far as she is concerned, state courts do not care about anything other than state opinions from that state, except for Supreme Court cases. Period.

I know it's bullshit. If a federal case in a Texas federal court is directly on point, you'd be stupid not to use it. But it's not my class to teach.

I think she is concerned because of the special cite rules in Texas and people getting confused. Apparently, someone tried to cite Texas Jurisprudence as a source in a practice memo.
Last edited by kalvano on Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:04 pm

Borhas wrote:If I was a state judge, I would wipe my ass with a federal opinion then secede my court from the union

/drunk idiot

You could gag a maggot off a meat wagon.

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm

kalvano wrote:My LRW teacher is somewhat...set...in her ways.

As far as she is concerned, state courts do not care about anything other than state opinions from that state, except for Supreme Court cases. Period.

I know it's bullshit. If a federal case in a Texas federal court is directly on point, you'd be stupid not to use it. But it's not my class to teach.

I think she is concerned because of the special cite rules in Texas and people getting confused. Apparently, someone tried to cite Texas Jurisprudence as a source in a practice memo.

I suppose if you're sure the case will remain in state court, you could take that attitude. I wrote a memo for my SA position last summer, and I included analysis of the federal opinions and how they differed from the state opinions. The case ended up getting removed.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:06 pm

JazzOne wrote:
kalvano wrote:My LRW teacher is somewhat...set...in her ways.

As far as she is concerned, state courts do not care about anything other than state opinions from that state, except for Supreme Court cases. Period.

I know it's bullshit. If a federal case in a Texas federal court is directly on point, you'd be stupid not to use it. But it's not my class to teach.

I think she is concerned because of the special cite rules in Texas and people getting confused. Apparently, someone tried to cite Texas Jurisprudence as a source in a practice memo.

I suppose if you're sure the case will remain in state court, you could take that attitude. I wrote a memo for my SA position last summer, and I included analysis of the federal opinions and how they differed from the state opinions. The case ended up getting removed.



I can either do what real lawyers do and fail, or I can do it her way and get a B.

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:06 pm

kalvano wrote:My LRW teacher is somewhat...set...in her ways.

As far as she is concerned, state courts do not care about anything other than state opinions from that state, except for Supreme Court cases. Period.

I know it's bullshit. If a federal case in a Texas federal court is directly on point, you'd be stupid not to use it. But it's not my class to teach.

I think she is concerned because of the special cite rules in Texas and people getting confused. Apparently, someone tried to cite Texas Jurisprudence as a source in a practice memo.

lol

Cite a law review article!

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JazzOne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:08 pm

kalvano wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
kalvano wrote:My LRW teacher is somewhat...set...in her ways.

As far as she is concerned, state courts do not care about anything other than state opinions from that state, except for Supreme Court cases. Period.

I know it's bullshit. If a federal case in a Texas federal court is directly on point, you'd be stupid not to use it. But it's not my class to teach.

I think she is concerned because of the special cite rules in Texas and people getting confused. Apparently, someone tried to cite Texas Jurisprudence as a source in a practice memo.

I suppose if you're sure the case will remain in state court, you could take that attitude. I wrote a memo for my SA position last summer, and I included analysis of the federal opinions and how they differed from the state opinions. The case ended up getting removed.



I can either do what real lawyers do and fail, or I can do it her way and get a B.

No, no, don't get me wrong. You should always follow the prof's instructions to the letter. I just think it's a crazy position to take. Then again, if your class is having trouble understanding the hierarchy of authority, I can kind of understand why she'd be particular about it.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:15 pm

Some are. Some aren't. It's really not that hard until you get into "writ refused", "judgment affirmed", "n.r.e." and all the special cites. Even then, it's not too hard to work through.


I overheard one girl saying it took her almost an hour, but at least she was done researching the open memo.

I wanted to question her on that, but I held my tongue. I'm about 4-5 hours of research in, with about 40 cases printed up, and probably another 3 hours and 15-20 cases to go. It's flat-out impossible to research in an hour.




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