In which we complain about HelLRW

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billyez
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In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby billyez » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:03 am

It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:12 pm

I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

If we are supposed to learn to write like lawyers, stop giving me 5th-grade workbook assignments and give me writing assignments that I will receive feedback on. We have about 6 writing assignments, and will only receive feedback on one. That's stupid.

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stratocophic
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby stratocophic » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:13 pm

HATE

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mmmadeli
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby mmmadeli » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:58 pm

kalvano wrote:I'm tired of bullshit work. I know how to look up a citation in Blue Book.

If we are supposed to learn to write like lawyers, stop giving me 5th-grade workbook assignments and give me writing assignments that I will receive feedback on. We have about 6 writing assignments, and will only receive feedback on one. That's stupid.


Oh, weird -- we get feedback on all of our writing assignments, both from a 2L writing advisor and our professor. And we don't have a workbook. We're doing our first memo now.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:08 pm

Oh, we're doing two memos now, neither of which we will receive feedback on. But it's important we keep doing Blue book citation exercises and ICW work while we are doing that!

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mmmadeli
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby mmmadeli » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:31 pm

kalvano wrote:Oh, we're doing two memos now, neither of which we will receive feedback on. But it's important we keep doing Blue book citation exercises and ICW work while we are doing that!


We haven't done ANY blue book stuff. I haven't even bought mine yet.

Edit for full disclosure -- we actually all really like our version of LRW (we call it lawyering skills here). It's taught well -- my prof won the teaching award last year -- and it actually helps make a lot of our other classes make sense. We do focus on writing stuff, but we also read cases and the bulk of what we do is talk about how to extract and form good arguments. It's actually pretty cool. \dorkloser

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Doritos
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Doritos » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:33 pm

Blessing: LRW is pass/fail..no worries!

Curse: LRW is pass/fail...no motivation...

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beach_terror
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby beach_terror » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:36 pm

Doritos wrote:Blessing: LRW is pass/fail..no worries!

Curse: LRW is pass/fail...no motivation...


My LRW is graded, and on the curve I believe. Either that, or the grade distributions from 2 years ago just happened to fall along the curve (5 A/A-s, 10 B+/Bs, 5 B-s, 5 C+/C, 1 C-)

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BruceWayne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:48 pm

billyez wrote:It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.



You and I go to the same school so I can really really identify with you on this. The memo we have due this week is going to take up an insane amount of time. It's really getting on my nerves because I have reading I need to get done (that I'm more motivated to do because those classes will determine our job prospects) and I just feel like I'm wasting time whenever I work on LRW. I hate to say this but I really may begin to just turn in subpar work in LRW; I need a job first and foremost.

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kalvano
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby kalvano » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:50 pm

mmmadeli wrote:
kalvano wrote:Oh, we're doing two memos now, neither of which we will receive feedback on. But it's important we keep doing Blue book citation exercises and ICW work while we are doing that!


We haven't done ANY blue book stuff. I haven't even bought mine yet.

Edit for full disclosure -- we actually all really like our version of LRW (we call it lawyering skills here). It's taught well -- my prof won the teaching award last year -- and it actually helps make a lot of our other classes make sense. We do focus on writing stuff, but we also read cases and the bulk of what we do is talk about how to extract and form good arguments. It's actually pretty cool. \dorkloser



I want to like it. It's a necessary skill, and I need to know it. But the insane amount of busywork and the terrible teaching methods are irritating me no end.

bigben
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby bigben » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:52 pm

Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.

It does suck as a 1L class though.

bigben
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby bigben » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:54 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
billyez wrote:It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.

You and I go to the same school so I can really really identify with you on this. The memo we have due this week is going to take up an insane amount of time. It's really getting on my nerves because I have reading I need to get done (that I'm more motivated to do because those classes will determine our job prospects) and I just feel like I'm wasting time whenever I work on LRW. I hate to say this but I really may begin to just turn in subpar work in LRW; I need a job first and foremost.

Your class is pass/fail?

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BruceWayne
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:55 pm

bigben wrote:Your class is pass/fail?


Yes

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stratocophic
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby stratocophic » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:20 pm

stratocophic wrote:HATE
I take it back. That was pretty damn easy. Motivation scrounging's the worst part.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Stanford4Me » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:26 pm

We have had a lot of writing assignments and have only received feedback on one of the assignments, which was very limited in nature. Now we're working on drafting an argument for a motion to dismiss and all of the feedback we have gotten so far has been from peers - i.e. people who have no clue what they're doing.

This class takes up SO MUCH TIME. Also, I hate the blue book.

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rdcws000
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby rdcws000 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:32 pm

I don't mind the class, it breaks up the monotony of read/brief/listen to others recite/take notes.

On the other hand, I can't figure out due to the demand on our time why it is only a 2 hour course.

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traehekat
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby traehekat » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:00 pm

I'm actually really enjoying LWR, but I think a lot of it has to do with the professor being awesome.

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straxen
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby straxen » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:13 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:We have had a lot of writing assignments and have only received feedback on one of the assignments, which was very limited in nature. Now we're working on drafting an argument for a motion to dismiss and all of the feedback we have gotten so far has been from peers - i.e. people who have no clue what they're doing.

This class takes up SO MUCH TIME. Also, I hate the blue book.


+1

The fact that I spend as much if not more time on P/F Lawyering (LRW Analogue) as on all my actual Legal courses combined should indicate that there is something seriously wrong with this program.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:28 pm

straxen wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:We have had a lot of writing assignments and have only received feedback on one of the assignments, which was very limited in nature. Now we're working on drafting an argument for a motion to dismiss and all of the feedback we have gotten so far has been from peers - i.e. people who have no clue what they're doing.

This class takes up SO MUCH TIME. Also, I hate the blue book.


+1

The fact that I spend as much if not more time on P/F Lawyering (LRW Analogue) as on all my actual Legal courses combined should indicate that there is something seriously wrong with this program.

You @ NYU?

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straxen
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby straxen » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:33 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
straxen wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:We have had a lot of writing assignments and have only received feedback on one of the assignments, which was very limited in nature. Now we're working on drafting an argument for a motion to dismiss and all of the feedback we have gotten so far has been from peers - i.e. people who have no clue what they're doing.

This class takes up SO MUCH TIME. Also, I hate the blue book.


+1

The fact that I spend as much if not more time on P/F Lawyering (LRW Analogue) as on all my actual Legal courses combined should indicate that there is something seriously wrong with this program.

You @ NYU?


Yep

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:44 pm

MEETUP.

Also, S4me, when the hell did you get feedback on a writing assignment? My group hasn't gotten anything. I'm really enjoying writing this argument, though.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:06 pm

clintonius wrote:MEETUP.

Also, S4me, when the hell did you get feedback on a writing assignment? My group hasn't gotten anything. I'm really enjoying writing this argument, though.

I should clarify that the "feedback" I received was on our first assignment, which was a case brief. So technically I haven't received any feedback.

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Kohinoor
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:14 pm

billyez wrote:It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.
If you find LRW inordinately time consuming, you're probably doing it wrong.

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clintonius
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby clintonius » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:18 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
clintonius wrote:MEETUP.

Also, S4me, when the hell did you get feedback on a writing assignment? My group hasn't gotten anything. I'm really enjoying writing this argument, though.
I should clarify that the "feedback" I received was on our first assignment, which was a case brief. So technically I haven't received any feedback.
Yeah, we didn't get feedback on those. Except in a general, group-wide sense.

270910
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Re: In which we complain about HelLRW

Postby 270910 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:52 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
billyez wrote:It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.
If you find LRW inordinately time consuming, you're probably doing it wrong.


At the end of most legal research courses, the people who think they won (awards for memos/arguments, high grades, etc) are really just broadcasting their misplaced priorities to the world of legal recruiters.

If I ever interview a candidate, any kind of distinction in a 1L research/methods class is an auto-ding.




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