when to drop out, if you think you're going to

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miamiman
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby miamiman » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:18 am

This is anything but a life-changing decision; if the OP is not feeling law school, for whatever reason, and has legitimately given thought to career alternatives and decided that those alternatives are more attractive than sticking it out, by all means that individual should forgo/exit law school.

I'm not even sure that this decision demands an explanation; whatever it is, I'm sure OP has thought long and hard about it. No need to burn him/her at the cross now as I imagine they've been anguishing over this for a while.

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paratactical
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby paratactical » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:47 am

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rynabrius
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby rynabrius » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:03 am

paratactical wrote:
lbeezy wrote:
OGR3 wrote:If you didn't think law school was for you, why have you made almost 500 posts on Top-Law-Schools.com?


I have considerably more posts than that and I'm still not a hundred percent sure that law school is for me.


And I'm almost definitely not going to lawl skool. Did we just blow your mind or what? Shake n bake!


The magic man--now you see him, NOW YOU DON'T.

I miss John C. Reilly + Will Ferrell. Mark Wahlberg is a poor substitute. I even say "Cyrus," which was good but really depressing. . .

Kulax22
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby Kulax22 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:03 am

Jessep wrote:Are you feeling anxious because other career opportunities are cut off? That prior to law school you could do anything for a career and now you have narrowed your prospects? Thinking of being a travel writer? Read too much existential philosophy? If so, I think this is a fairly normal response. For many, it is difficult to look a pragmatic career square in the face and say you are committed to it for at least a number of a years. Personally, I would stick it out unless you have other serious, realistic career prospects. However, it depends on your priorities in life.

If you are flirting with the idea that you can do something super-cool and fun all the time for a living, come back down to earth and realize all jobs have downsides. It's why they are jobs and not vacations. Profitable vocations are brimming with downsides, but if you have the right outlook you make the most of it because most jobs are miserable. The happiest lawyers I've met are ones that have prospective on life: most jobs are terrible and pay terrible. Relative to other professions, being a lawyer is intellectually engaging (albeit maybe not for the first 1-2 years) and potentially profitable especially given your position.

Again, unless you have a realistic plan B I would stick it out unless you are independently wealthy. If this is the case, try your hand at whatever your heart desires. If you need to make a living and have no real career prospects, being a lawyer from a t14 school isn't a terrible deal if you can pull down decent grades and you have a personality.


This is exactly on the mark for me. It's why I applied and am -at the moment- thinking I will at least stick out the first semester. But the new debt is so mind-boggling to me that it takes any "fun" out of doing this for any other reason than to get a job at the end of it all. I'm not feeling any academic curiosity at all, and I'd rather be "travel writing" or what have you.

ViIIager
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby ViIIager » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:28 am

Kulax, do the following:

1. Figure out your school's drop dates (dates by which you can drop and receive 100%/50%/0% of your tuition refunded).
2. Drop ASAP if you're still within the 100%/50% dates.
3. Go do something for a year.

If you're not into it, LS won't be worthwhile, and the debt will be an albatross around your neck for a decade or so. You can always return (probably with a fantastic personal statement topic) later on if you so choose.

One year spent to find yourself vs. massive debt + a high probability of a degree you can't use. Take option A, go off into the woods and commune with nature. Or with a different profession. Or become a priest. Whatever floats your boat.

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sophia.olive
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby sophia.olive » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:37 am

You can always just become really good a being bitter. Life is short minus well be good at something.

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:37 am

Because the OP is a troll

OGR3 wrote:If you didn't think law school was for you, why have you made almost 500 posts on Top-Law-Schools.com?

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romothesavior
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby romothesavior » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:02 pm

jdgolfer wrote:Because the OP is a troll


That seems like a pretty absurd thing to say. Plenty of people doubt themselves at this stage. That's why it is really important to know that you want to be a lawyer before starting.

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:08 pm

There are plenty of other options of what you can do with a law degree...the OP doesn't necessarily have to go and practice law. He or she can do something else. Law degrees open doors in other fields too.

I think that the OP really needs to cool his or her jets and just take advantage of this oppurtunity and finish the degree.


romothesavior wrote:
jdgolfer wrote:Because the OP is a troll


That seems like a pretty absurd thing to say. Plenty of people doubt themselves at this stage. That's why it is really important to know that you want to be a lawyer before starting.

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paratactical
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby paratactical » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:12 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

firemed
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby firemed » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:21 pm

sophia.olive wrote:You can always just become really good a being bitter. Life is short minus well be good at something.


About half my lawyer friends are now virtuosos at being bitter. And pissy. And, for one of them, frequently drunk at the same time.

So that is definitely an option.

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romothesavior
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby romothesavior » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:22 pm

jdgolfer wrote:There are plenty of other options of what you can do with a law degree...the OP doesn't necessarily have to go and practice law. He or she can do something else. Law degrees open doors in other fields too.

I think that the OP really needs to cool his or her jets and just take advantage of this oppurtunity and finish the degree.


ORLY? My Torts prof walked in today and the first thing he addressed (before even telling us his name) was how bad the legal economy is, how he thinks people should reconsider law school if they aren't serious about it, and he directly contradicted what you just said about a legal degree opening other doors. Almost a direct quote: "Law school prepares you to be lawyers. I'm skeptical that it is particularly useful outside of law."

Now, he was not telling people not to go to law school. His message was simply that if you don't want to be a lawyer, NOW is the time to think about this monumental life decision. If OP isn't sure he wants to be a lawyer, he should get out now. He can always come back to law if he wants to in the future. But don't drop 3 years and 6 figures on a degree that prepares you to be a lawyer unless you want to be a lawyer.
Last edited by romothesavior on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BruceWayne
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:23 pm

Kulax22 wrote:
Jessep wrote:Are you feeling anxious because other career opportunities are cut off? That prior to law school you could do anything for a career and now you have narrowed your prospects? Thinking of being a travel writer? Read too much existential philosophy? If so, I think this is a fairly normal response. For many, it is difficult to look a pragmatic career square in the face and say you are committed to it for at least a number of a years. Personally, I would stick it out unless you have other serious, realistic career prospects. However, it depends on your priorities in life.

If you are flirting with the idea that you can do something super-cool and fun all the time for a living, come back down to earth and realize all jobs have downsides. It's why they are jobs and not vacations. Profitable vocations are brimming with downsides, but if you have the right outlook you make the most of it because most jobs are miserable. The happiest lawyers I've met are ones that have prospective on life: most jobs are terrible and pay terrible. Relative to other professions, being a lawyer is intellectually engaging (albeit maybe not for the first 1-2 years) and potentially profitable especially given your position.

Again, unless you have a realistic plan B I would stick it out unless you are independently wealthy. If this is the case, try your hand at whatever your heart desires. If you need to make a living and have no real career prospects, being a lawyer from a t14 school isn't a terrible deal if you can pull down decent grades and you have a personality.


This is exactly on the mark for me. It's why I applied and am -at the moment- thinking I will at least stick out the first semester. But the new debt is so mind-boggling to me that it takes any "fun" out of doing this for any other reason than to get a job at the end of it all. I'm not feeling any academic curiosity at all, and I'd rather be "travel writing" or what have you.[/

I'm surprised that no one has started slamming his post with ad hominems etc. yet. A lot of what he's saying is a TLS faux paus. For some reason a lot of posters on here think that there are loads of non law jobs out there that pay great money, only require a BA----in any field at that, are hiring in droves, are incredibly enjoyable, and allow 9-5 hours (and maybe for a lot of TLS posters this is true since many of them attended schools like HYP MIT, Duke, UChicago, Penn, Stanford etc. for undergrad). Strangely the rest of the population seems to have a very hard time finding these ideal non legal positions that TLS posters describe as being nearly ubiquitous. If TLS could enlighten President Obama about these positions he would win the 2012 election by a landslide.

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:29 pm

Law is also the top field for alcoholism. Seriously.

firemedicprelaw wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:You can always just become really good a being bitter. Life is short minus well be good at something.


About half my lawyer friends are now virtuosos at being bitter. And pissy. And, for one of them, frequently drunk at the same time.

So that is definitely an option.

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:34 pm

I guess thats up to the OP then and whatever decision he or she makes.

As for your professor, he is an academic and I really don't value a lot of what academics have to say. Most of them have never worked in the "real" world (a.k.a. outside of a school or university). They have no concept of reality.

There are plenty of other oppurtunities out there for non-law jobs. Keep your hopes up and don't listen to the likes of your bitter professor or other negative people--they only drag you down!

romothesavior wrote:
jdgolfer wrote:There are plenty of other options of what you can do with a law degree...the OP doesn't necessarily have to go and practice law. He or she can do something else. Law degrees open doors in other fields too.

I think that the OP really needs to cool his or her jets and just take advantage of this oppurtunity and finish the degree.


ORLY? My Torts prof walked in today and the first thing he addressed (before even telling us his name) was an article he wrote over the summer (http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html). He discussed how bad the legal economy is, how he thinks people should reconsider law school if they aren't serious about it, and he directly contradicted what you just said about a legal degree opening other doors. Almost a direct quote: "Law school prepares you to be lawyers. I'm skeptical that it is particularly useful outside of law."

Now, he was not telling people not to go to law school. His message was simply that if you don't want to be a lawyer, NOW is the time to think about this monumental life decision. If OP isn't sure he wants to be a lawyer, he should get out now. He can always come back to law if he wants to in the future. But don't drop 3 years and 6 figures on a degree that prepares you to be a lawyer unless you want to be a lawyer.

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bk1
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby bk1 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:35 pm

BruceWayne wrote:I'm surprised that no one has started slamming his post with ad hominems etc. yet. A lot of what he's saying is a TLS faux paus. For some reason a lot of posters on here think that there are loads of non law jobs out there that pay great money, only require a BA----in any field at that, are hiring in droves, are incredibly enjoyable, and allow 9-5 hours (and maybe for a lot of TLS posters this is true since many of them attended schools like HYP MIT, Duke, UChicago, Penn, Stanford etc. for undergrad). Strangely the rest of the population seems to have a very hard time finding these ideal non legal positions that TLS posters describe as being nearly ubiquitous. If TLS could enlighten President Obama about these positions he would win the 2012 election by a landslide.


I don't think the majority of TLS posters think that there a ton of jobs in other fields, let alone enjoyable 9-5 cushy ones.

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bk1
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby bk1 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:36 pm

jdgolfer wrote:Because the OP is a troll

OGR3 wrote:If you didn't think law school was for you, why have you made almost 500 posts on Top-Law-Schools.com?


Strong words coming from a flame.

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paratactical
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby paratactical » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:37 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:39 pm

I do think that it's easier to land a cushy job in this bad economy (regardless of field your in) if you have attend a top-notch school (Ivies, Service Academies, etc.).

Most of my friends who are non-lawyers and just have their undergrad degrees from these prestigious schools (no grad degrees either) are doing just fine...they are working and have money coming in...plus, money in the bank.

As for everyone else, I don't think that the rest of TLS thinks that there are tons of jobs that are 9-5. It's all about schools, money and connections. Sad but true.

bk1 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:I'm surprised that no one has started slamming his post with ad hominems etc. yet. A lot of what he's saying is a TLS faux paus. For some reason a lot of posters on here think that there are loads of non law jobs out there that pay great money, only require a BA----in any field at that, are hiring in droves, are incredibly enjoyable, and allow 9-5 hours (and maybe for a lot of TLS posters this is true since many of them attended schools like HYP MIT, Duke, UChicago, Penn, Stanford etc. for undergrad). Strangely the rest of the population seems to have a very hard time finding these ideal non legal positions that TLS posters describe as being nearly ubiquitous. If TLS could enlighten President Obama about these positions he would win the 2012 election by a landslide.


I don't think the majority of TLS posters think that there a ton of jobs in other fields, let alone enjoyable 9-5 cushy ones.

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romothesavior
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby romothesavior » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:40 pm

jdgolfer wrote:As for your professor, he is an academic


Even more reason for why what he says is forceful. Most academics and profs just ignore the job market and teach in their ivory towers.

Maybe you should read the article???

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:42 pm

You make zero sense :)

paratactical wrote:
jdgolfer wrote:I guess thats up to the OP then and whatever decision he or she makes.

As for your professor, he is an academic and I really don't value a lot of what academics have to say. Most of them have never worked in the "real" world (a.k.a. outside of a school or university). They have no concept of reality.

There are plenty of other oppurtunities out there for non-law jobs. Keep your hopes up and don't listen to the likes of your bitter professor or other negative people--they only drag you down!


So... how difficult is it for you to use the computer and access the internet? Or do you have one of those helpers that does things like ties your shoes, wipes your ass and signs you on to TLS?

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vanwinkle
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:43 pm

jdgolfer wrote:I guess thats up to the OP then and whatever decision he or she makes.

As for your professor, he is an academic and I really don't value a lot of what academics have to say. Most of them have never worked in the "real" world (a.k.a. outside of a school or university). They have no concept of reality.

There are plenty of other oppurtunities out there for non-law jobs. Keep your hopes up and don't listen to the likes of your bitter professor or other negative people--they only drag you down!

So. Just to get this straight.

OP should not listen to his professor, because he's just an academic with no experience in the real world, but in order to be better prepared to find a job in the real world, he should... Spend 3 years and over $150K listening to professors talk about a field he doesn't even want to practice, and which they're not qualified to speak on anyway since they lack real-world experience? That's your advice?

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:43 pm

Thanks...I will read it later.

romothesavior wrote:
jdgolfer wrote:As for your professor, he is an academic


Even more reason for why what he says is forceful. Most academics and profs just ignore the job market and teach in their ivory towers.

Maybe you should read the article???

jdgolfer
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby jdgolfer » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:44 pm

We all have to listen to these academics our whole lives...no matter what field...law, medicine, pharmacy, engineering. The academics are there just to teach us--they aren't there to give us our career advice.

vanwinkle wrote:
jdgolfer wrote:I guess thats up to the OP then and whatever decision he or she makes.

As for your professor, he is an academic and I really don't value a lot of what academics have to say. Most of them have never worked in the "real" world (a.k.a. outside of a school or university). They have no concept of reality.

There are plenty of other oppurtunities out there for non-law jobs. Keep your hopes up and don't listen to the likes of your bitter professor or other negative people--they only drag you down!

So. Just to get this straight.

OP should not listen to his professor, because he's just an academic with no experience in the real world, but in order to be better prepared to find a job in the real world, he should... Spend 3 years and over $150K listening to professors talk about a field he doesn't even want to practice, and which they're not qualified to speak on anyway since they lack real-world experience? That's your advice?

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romothesavior
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Re: when to drop out, if you think you're going to

Postby romothesavior » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:45 pm

Also, while it may have been the case previously (like decades ago) that going to law to escape a bad economy, find one's passions, add some extra education, etc. would have been okay reasons to attend, the cost of a legal education is staggering today. Spending $150,00 and three years of your life to "dabble" in law and see if you like it is not wise at all.

I wish OP all the best and I hope he makes the best decision for him. I really hope he ignores the posters telling him that a law degree is always a good idea or to just "suck it up." This is a huge decision and it is important that he decide it based on the facts and based on what is best for him.




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