Share 1L Gunner Stories

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rynabrius
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby rynabrius » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:32 pm

Unless the professor has specifically set aside time for questions or random 1L expounding, its not appropriate. A gunner is someone who interrupts class to ask some inane hypothetical or make some inane comment. IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING. Usually the prof is trying to get to some point or is purposely leading things a certain way and when some jackass raises his hand to offer his hypothetical or ask some unrelated question or just keeps the prof from getting to the point it ruins the f'ing class for everyone else.

If you have a question or comment that has not been specifically solicited by the professor, save it for office hours.


Usually professors are open to people asking questions. In fact, they build time for it into their lectures. Further, good professors tend to love going off into diversions that are related to the main point, because they actually like what they teach. Part of the art of being a professor is "bringing it all back home." Learning law isn't a highway, there are a lot of detours. It's not like we're marching through the periodic table, and people interrupt to talk about phlogiston!

I agree with you with respect to utter irrelevance, but I feel like the attitude you are expounding shuts down fun and relevant class discussions.

I assume we're actually pretty much in agreement, because I agree that people shouldn't keep distracting professors with irrelevancies when they're trying to get their points out. Different professors do things differently, though. Also, I tend to assume professors are capable of cutting people off if they don't want them speaking.

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vamedic03
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:36 pm

rynabrius wrote:
Unless the professor has specifically set aside time for questions or random 1L expounding, its not appropriate. A gunner is someone who interrupts class to ask some inane hypothetical or make some inane comment. IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING. Usually the prof is trying to get to some point or is purposely leading things a certain way and when some jackass raises his hand to offer his hypothetical or ask some unrelated question or just keeps the prof from getting to the point it ruins the f'ing class for everyone else.

If you have a question or comment that has not been specifically solicited by the professor, save it for office hours.


Usually professors are open to people asking questions. In fact, they build it into their lecture. Also, good professors tend to love going off into diversions that are related to the main point, because they actually like what they teach. Part of the art of being a professor is "bringing it all back home." Learning law isn't a highway, there are a lot of detours. It's not like we're marching through the periodic table, and people interrupt to talk about phlogiston!

I agree with you with respect to utter irrelevance, but I feel like the attitude you are expounding shuts down fun and relevant class discussions.


Look, I've been through 1L year. Professors might build into their lecture certain points for questions - this would be an appropriate time for questions. But, diversions not related to the main point often result in the obscuring of the main point. Spare the highway/detour metaphor BS... Law is often times more like marching through the periodic table than anything else. This isn't a friggin' philosophy PHD program, its vocational training.

rynabrius
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby rynabrius » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:39 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
rynabrius wrote:
Unless the professor has specifically set aside time for questions or random 1L expounding, its not appropriate. A gunner is someone who interrupts class to ask some inane hypothetical or make some inane comment. IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING. Usually the prof is trying to get to some point or is purposely leading things a certain way and when some jackass raises his hand to offer his hypothetical or ask some unrelated question or just keeps the prof from getting to the point it ruins the f'ing class for everyone else.

If you have a question or comment that has not been specifically solicited by the professor, save it for office hours.


Usually professors are open to people asking questions. In fact, they build it into their lecture. Also, good professors tend to love going off into diversions that are related to the main point, because they actually like what they teach. Part of the art of being a professor is "bringing it all back home." Learning law isn't a highway, there are a lot of detours. It's not like we're marching through the periodic table, and people interrupt to talk about phlogiston!

I agree with you with respect to utter irrelevance, but I feel like the attitude you are expounding shuts down fun and relevant class discussions.


Look, I've been through 1L year. Professors might build into their lecture certain points for questions - this would be an appropriate time for questions. But, diversions not related to the main point often result in the obscuring of the main point. Spare the highway/detour metaphor BS... Law is often times more like marching through the periodic table than anything else. This isn't a friggin' philosophy PHD program, its vocational training.


I've also been through 1L year. As I said, I think we're mostly in agreement. Maybe it's best to just agree that gunners are gunners, we know them when we see them, certain questions are annoying, and certain people like to blather on philosophically. Professors tend to assume that people can pick up the rules on their own, and I can see why--that part is pretty easy. That is why classes tend to emphasize policy, unresolved controversies, and the like.

If you're going to class to learn the black letter law, you're in trouble.

EDIT: Regarding what you say about vocational training--it seems to me that you should be railing against professors and the way the school is set up, not gunners. 1L is pretty sparse in terms of vocational training, and the gunners only contribute marginally to that. I bet we would be in good agreement re: who should shut up in real life...

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vamedic03
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:44 pm

rynabrius wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
rynabrius wrote:
Unless the professor has specifically set aside time for questions or random 1L expounding, its not appropriate. A gunner is someone who interrupts class to ask some inane hypothetical or make some inane comment. IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING. Usually the prof is trying to get to some point or is purposely leading things a certain way and when some jackass raises his hand to offer his hypothetical or ask some unrelated question or just keeps the prof from getting to the point it ruins the f'ing class for everyone else.

If you have a question or comment that has not been specifically solicited by the professor, save it for office hours.


Usually professors are open to people asking questions. In fact, they build it into their lecture. Also, good professors tend to love going off into diversions that are related to the main point, because they actually like what they teach. Part of the art of being a professor is "bringing it all back home." Learning law isn't a highway, there are a lot of detours. It's not like we're marching through the periodic table, and people interrupt to talk about phlogiston!

I agree with you with respect to utter irrelevance, but I feel like the attitude you are expounding shuts down fun and relevant class discussions.


Look, I've been through 1L year. Professors might build into their lecture certain points for questions - this would be an appropriate time for questions. But, diversions not related to the main point often result in the obscuring of the main point. Spare the highway/detour metaphor BS... Law is often times more like marching through the periodic table than anything else. This isn't a friggin' philosophy PHD program, its vocational training.


I've also been through 1L year. As I said, I think we're mostly in agreement. Maybe it's best to just agree that gunners are gunners, we know them when we see them, certain questions are annoying, and certain people like to blather on philosophically. Professors tend to assume that people can pick up the rules on their own, and I can see why--that part is pretty easy. That is why classes tend to emphasize policy, unresolved controversies, and the like.

If you're going to class to learn the black letter law, you're in trouble.


The attempt to distinguish black letter law from policy, etc gets a lot of students in trouble. The toughest thing in law school is often truly learning black letter law inside and out and learning how to appropriately apply it to facts and use other considerations to clarify gray areas. Honestly, I clarified most of my understanding of black letter law by attending class. (and, I say this with the notation that I did rather well)

rynabrius
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby rynabrius » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:48 pm

vanmedic wrote:The attempt to distinguish black letter law from policy, etc gets a lot of students in trouble. The toughest thing in law school is often truly learning black letter law inside and out and learning how to appropriately apply it to facts and use other considerations to clarify gray areas. Honestly, I clarified most of my understanding of black letter law by attending class. (and, I say this with the notation that I did rather well)


I also clarified my understanding of black letter law in class. Sometimes, I did so by asking questions when that general area of law was being covered. My guess is that you wouldn't be shy about doing the same. In short, I think we've had a mere verbal disagreement, not a true argument.

I feel like I am continually derailing this thread. Ah yes GUNNERS. The nice thing about gunners is that most of them STFU after they get their first round of grades.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:49 pm

vamedic03 wrote: IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING.



I could tell you were serious here because you used all capital letters.

I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.

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kalvano
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:40 pm

Is someone really arguing that you shouldn't ask questions or engage in discussions in class?

12262010
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby 12262010 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:46 pm

rynabrius wrote:I feel like I am continually derailing this thread. Ah yes GUNNERS. The nice thing about gunners is that most of them STFU after they get their first round of grades.


this seems to be overwhelmingly true

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby TCScrutinizer » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:06 pm

Next week, they're holding a small event for law school students at UIUC to meet their professors in a non-classroom setting. The law students are divided into sections A through-D, and this particular event is only for sections A and B. A couple days ago I overheard an incensed-sounding 1L from section C or D complain that he had not heard about such an event for his section, and said that he might just have to sneak in because of this injustice. Thing is, section C and D have none of the same professors as A or B.

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legalease9
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby legalease9 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:30 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.


180!

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afcanoe
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby afcanoe » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:48 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
vamedic03 wrote: IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING.



I could tell you were serious here because you used all capital letters.

I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.

Well said.

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romothesavior
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby romothesavior » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:16 pm

afcanoe wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
vamedic03 wrote: IT DETRACTS FROM THE CLASS AND HARMS OTHER'S UNDERSTANDING.



I could tell you were serious here because you used all capital letters.

I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.

Well said.

justadude55
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby justadude55 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:28 pm

i want to hear some more gunner stories!!!!

what i don't get is why gunners are so humiliated when the professor puts em down. the professor is a smart and experienced dude or lady.

i'm not necessarily mr. cool, but if i did a brief and had a fact wrong, and the professor schooled me, i'd probably just say, "that's true. thanks. i'll be more observant next time." isn't 1L the time for mistakes? you have to be a big douche to walk into law school, and think you're on equal footing with someone whose succeeded so far in the field he's teaching at a top school.

these 300k teaching jobs are pretty awesome. why fight? emulate. emulate. emulate, and throw in a bit of your personality.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby Adjudicator » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:33 pm

justadude55 wrote:these 300k teaching jobs are pretty awesome. why fight? emulate. emulate. emulate, and throw in a bit of your personality.


"I'll be the number two guy here in Scranton in six weeks. How? Name repetition, personality mirroring and never breaking off a handshake. I'm always thinking one step ahead. Like a... carpenter... that makes stairs."

justadude55
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby justadude55 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:36 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
justadude55 wrote:these 300k teaching jobs are pretty awesome. why fight? emulate. emulate. emulate, and throw in a bit of your personality.


"I'll be the number two guy here in Scranton in six weeks. How? Name repetition, personality mirroring and never breaking off a handshake. I'm always thinking one step ahead. Like a... carpenter... that makes stairs."


i lost you somewhere in scranton.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby Adjudicator » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:36 pm

justadude55 wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:
justadude55 wrote:these 300k teaching jobs are pretty awesome. why fight? emulate. emulate. emulate, and throw in a bit of your personality.


"I'll be the number two guy here in Scranton in six weeks. How? Name repetition, personality mirroring and never breaking off a handshake. I'm always thinking one step ahead. Like a... carpenter... that makes stairs."


i lost you somewhere in scranton.


Sorry, what you said reminded me of Andy Bernard from The Office.

rynabrius
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby rynabrius » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:46 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
justadude55 wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:
justadude55 wrote:these 300k teaching jobs are pretty awesome. why fight? emulate. emulate. emulate, and throw in a bit of your personality.


"I'll be the number two guy here in Scranton in six weeks. How? Name repetition, personality mirroring and never breaking off a handshake. I'm always thinking one step ahead. Like a... carpenter... that makes stairs."


i lost you somewhere in scranton.


Sorry, what you said reminded me of Andy Bernard from The Office.


There was one gunner in particular who almost impressed me. In Crim-law, he was always offering these long hypotheticals. For instance, we were discussing provocation, and when the topic of mutual combat came up, he stood and just started telling this story from his childhood. Apparently, when he was a kid in Philly, he used to enjoy playing basketball and such, and one day he got into a little fight. Then, he heard his mother say “You’re movin’ with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air.” He whistled for a cab and when it came near, the license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror. If anything, he could say that this cab was rare, but he thought, “Nah, forget it. Yo, holmes to Bel-Air!” He pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 and yelled to the cabbie, “Yo holmes smell ya later!” Looked at his kingdom and he was finally there, to sit on his throne as the prince of Bel-Air.

I think he transferred to Harvard later. Damn gunners.

charlesjd
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby charlesjd » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:50 pm

.
Last edited by charlesjd on Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby Adjudicator » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:52 pm

charlesjd wrote:The insane gunner in my class broke her arm. Karma's a bitch.


How did she break it? Was she raising it too fast and hit it on the desk?

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NU_Jet55
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby NU_Jet55 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:53 pm

charlesjd wrote:The insane gunner in my class broke her arm. Karma's a bitch.


LOL'd IRL

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DeSimone
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby DeSimone » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:56 pm

charlesjd wrote:The insane gunner in my class broke her arm. Karma's a bitch.

Too bad the other arm is still functioning.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby NU_Jet55 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:03 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.


Keep in mind the other 89 people in your class are also paying $200,000 for their education. If you are judicious about how often you engage in discussions with your professor and you do it in a way that contributes to your education and the education of others around you, then more power to you.

The "gunner" that it is the spirit of this thread to complain about/make fun of is the one who is not of the "judicious" type.

HTH

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romothesavior
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby romothesavior » Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:10 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.


Keep in mind the other 89 people in your class are also paying $200,000 for their education. If you are judicious about how often you engage in discussions with your professor and you do it in a way that contributes to your education and the education of others around you, then more power to you.

The "gunner" that it is the spirit of this thread to complain about/make fun of is the one who is not of the "judicious" type.

HTH


On that, I think we all agree.

(Will post stories of how big of a gunner NU Jet is tomorrow)

keg411
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby keg411 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:29 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:I think in law school I will continue my policy of recognizing that professors are not an elite class of warlocks with perfect knowledge and perfect instruction, and will therefore continue to ask questions for my own clarification. If I'm paying $200,000 for these 3 years I'm not going to let people throwing the "gunner" label around keep me from being engaged in my education.


Keep in mind the other 89 people in your class are also paying $200,000 for their education. If you are judicious about how often you engage in discussions with your professor and you do it in a way that contributes to your education and the education of others around you, then more power to you.

The "gunner" that it is the spirit of this thread to complain about/make fun of is the one who is not of the "judicious" type.

HTH


I can't hear the gunners, so I just tune out unless the professor says something to note or repeats or makes a point of something that's said. Bonus to having crappy hearing.

Also, we're maybe a week or two at most of 1L. I'd be shocked if people are really asking judicious questions at this point (unless it's asking for clarification on something and not trying to sound smart or repeating something they read in an E&E/Hornbook or making up stupid hypos).

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legalease9
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Re: Share 1L Gunner Stories

Postby legalease9 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:15 pm

justadude55 wrote:i want to hear some more gunner stories!!!!

what i don't get is why gunners are so humiliated when the professor puts em down. the professor is a smart and experienced dude or lady.

i'm not necessarily mr. cool, but if i did a brief and had a fact wrong, and the professor schooled me, i'd probably just say, "that's true. thanks. i'll be more observant next time." isn't 1L the time for mistakes? you have to be a big douche to walk into law school, and think you're on equal footing with someone whose succeeded so far in the field he's teaching at a top school.

these 300k teaching jobs are pretty awesome. why fight? emulate. emulate. emulate, and throw in a bit of your personality.


True Gunners do what they do because they are trying to make themselves look better than their fellow students, not because they want to learn. This is why they would pout if their professor shut them down, rather than learn from the experience.




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