1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

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chrisokc
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby chrisokc » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:12 am

stocksly33 wrote:
warmachine wrote:Not necessarily.

You need your cases to extract the BLL. In my case, getting criminal law down requires reading the cases or at least understanding the rule, a few smudges of facts, and maybe the court's rationale behind its holding.


Of course, because this is only week one, a lot of the cases don't necessarily work together to create one huge pie of rules. Some professors may be assigning cases that are just general and meant to get your feet wet.


I'm just a little worried about the prof who talks about tangential/theoretical stuff which I've been told time and again he just cold-calls for but never tests on.


I can get the BLL from the cases. But when I search the case on Lexis to get the topic, then read in the supplements about that topic, I get the BLL. and i feel like i get more out of the process when using supplements.

maybe it's to each their own. but i like to hear other's methods.

After you find the case on Lexis, where do you see the topic?

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goosey
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby goosey » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:12 pm

just wondering if your crim law classes are covering the same thing as mine---we're spending an awful lot of time on theories of punishment, proportionality, etc. how much of this stuff should make its way into one's outline??

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stocksly33
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby stocksly33 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:33 pm

chrisokc wrote:After you find the case on Lexis, where do you see the topic?


It's usually in 'summary' or 'outcome', and sometimes they have a thorough analysis (in a pdf) for the big cases. I've only been using lexis for few days, i'm sure others know more about lexis than I do.

Finding the topic isn't hard... it's usually in my syllabus, or the index subchapter headings in the casebook.

I was just saying that I learn the law better when I figure out the topic, read the lexis summary/other brief, and then read supplements. As opposed to reading the cases.

chrisokc
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby chrisokc » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:11 pm

goosey wrote:just wondering if your crim law classes are covering the same thing as mine---we're spending an awful lot of time on theories of punishment, proportionality, etc. how much of this stuff should make its way into one's outline??

We're still on theories.

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onthecusp
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby onthecusp » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:39 pm

LAWYER2 wrote:
savagecheater wrote:is it just me or are Westlaw and Lexis infuriatingly unintuitive?

They both have these terribly convoluted and intricate search engines which stifle my impulse to simply type in the opposing parties.

This!


Lexisnexis------>Get A Document--------> Search by party name?

I've actually found it easier to search by citation, and although it is unintuitive, once your do it once your good.

rejectmaster
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby rejectmaster » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:17 pm

my impression is that

i have no idea what the hell is going on

i started last week and was so lost for the first few days
i'm slowly putting the pieces together, so hopefully this trend continues

84weeks
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby 84weeks » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:56 pm

So far, I've been able to keep up with the assignments and the workload has been manageable. I haven't read ahead though -- instead, with those precious hours I relaxed. I am wondering when it will all go to hell and I feel like I'm drowning -- right now, I'm swimming the laps just fine.

However, keeping up with work doesn't mean classes are a breeze. I get in the room and the professor starts raising points that I missed, or conflicts with what I had thought I had read. So far, this hasn't worried me because I know most people feel just as lost.

I do feel like I've been spending less time with the material than my classmates, which may or may not bite me in the ass in the end. We did Pennoyer over three days and others would keep rereading it. I figured I got as much as I could possibly get from the original case after the third read (and some external research).

Fridays are light for me and I hope to make that my review/outline day. I go to bed before 11 and wake up between 6 and 7 (sleep into 8 on the weekends). We'll see how long that lasts...

teebone51
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby teebone51 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:05 pm

84weeks wrote:I do feel like I've been spending less time with the material than my classmates, which may or may not bite me in the ass in the end. We did Pennoyer over three days and others would keep rereading it. I figured I got as much as I could possibly get from the original case after the third read (and some external research).


it's important to recognize that a lot of the shit you read (especially in personam jurisdiction) is just doctrine, and means absolutely fuck all today in terms of where the law actually stands. sure, it's good to know where it came from and how it has evolved, but it's not really helpful when you're having to apply the law to a fact scenario.

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Royal
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Royal » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:22 pm

So far things have been easier than I expected, in general. The professors seem to be all over the place when lecturing though, which makes organized note-taking a little challenging.

So far the cases have been short and easy. The only difficult one so far was Marbury v. Madison, but with a little googling it made sense. I've found that, at least so far, I have more free time than I would have imagined. I'm concerned that I'm "not doing it right". I don't know what other people are doing at this stage that occupies 8 hours a day. Anyone else feel this way?

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Moose Thompson
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Moose Thompson » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:36 pm

rad law wrote:Also no one I know is in a study group.



Same here. I don't really know how to feel about it.

I got cold called in two different classes today. Both times I knew what we were talking about, but felt like I failed to express myself clearly and felt like an idiot. My friends all assured me it was fine, so I'm on board with feeling you're probably always going to think it's worse than it is. Plus, like someone else said, people have said some really stupid things in my class, but I don't remember any of them or identify anyone with bad answers.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Charles Barkley » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:50 am

Royal wrote:I'm concerned that I'm "not doing it right". I don't know what other people are doing at this stage that occupies 8 hours a day. Anyone else feel this way?

Yes. I feel the exact same way. Glad I'm not alone.

lawchampion
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby lawchampion » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:39 am

Charles Barkley wrote:
Royal wrote:I'm concerned that I'm "not doing it right". I don't know what other people are doing at this stage that occupies 8 hours a day. Anyone else feel this way?

Yes. I feel the exact same way. Glad I'm not alone.

+1

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stocksly33
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby stocksly33 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:13 am

lawchampion wrote:
Charles Barkley wrote:
Royal wrote:I'm concerned that I'm "not doing it right". I don't know what other people are doing at this stage that occupies 8 hours a day. Anyone else feel this way?

Yes. I feel the exact same way. Glad I'm not alone.

+1


What exactly are ya'll doing to study and how many pages per night do you have to read?

I have around 50 pgs per night to read. And I average about 10-15 mins per page... which ends up being 5-6 hours per weekday and 6-7 hours per day on the weekend.

I outline and brief in the book as I do the assigned readings. I also work through the notes after the cases, and try to read as much supplements as I can.

Sure, if I just breezed through readings, it might only take a couple hours. But taking notes, doing research, and working examples while you do the assigned readings... that takes time.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:12 am

stocksly33 wrote:
I have around 50 pgs per night to read. And I average about 10-15 mins per page... which ends up being 5-6 hours per weekday and 6-7 hours per day on the weekend.

I outline and brief in the book as I do the assigned readings. I also work through the notes after the cases, and try to read as much supplements as I can.

Sure, if I just breezed through readings, it might only take a couple hours. But taking notes, doing research, and working examples while you do the assigned readings... that takes time.


15 minutes a page is absurdly slow, 10 minutes a page is still 500 minutes which = 8 hours 2 minutes of reading alone. They key is to ignore the facts, the procedural history the long winded explanations of whatever, and get to the beef of the case: the reasons why what happened happened. That will cut your reading time in half.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Charles Barkley » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:23 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:
stocksly33 wrote:
I have around 50 pgs per night to read. And I average about 10-15 mins per page... which ends up being 5-6 hours per weekday and 6-7 hours per day on the weekend.

I outline and brief in the book as I do the assigned readings. I also work through the notes after the cases, and try to read as much supplements as I can.

Sure, if I just breezed through readings, it might only take a couple hours. But taking notes, doing research, and working examples while you do the assigned readings... that takes time.


15 minutes a page is absurdly slow, 10 minutes a page is still 500 minutes which = 8 hours 2 minutes of reading alone. They key is to ignore the facts, the procedural history the long winded explanations of whatever, and get to the beef of the case: the reasons why what happened happened. That will cut your reading time in half.

+1.

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stocksly33
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby stocksly33 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:53 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:
stocksly33 wrote:
I have around 50 pgs per night to read. And I average about 10-15 mins per page... which ends up being 5-6 hours per weekday and 6-7 hours per day on the weekend.

I outline and brief in the book as I do the assigned readings. I also work through the notes after the cases, and try to read as much supplements as I can.

Sure, if I just breezed through readings, it might only take a couple hours. But taking notes, doing research, and working examples while you do the assigned readings... that takes time.


15 minutes a page is absurdly slow, 10 minutes a page is still 500 minutes which = 8 hours 2 minutes of reading alone. They key is to ignore the facts, the procedural history the long winded explanations of whatever, and get to the beef of the case: the reasons why what happened happened. That will cut your reading time in half.


Yeah, i was doing my math like there are 100 mins in an hour... Point is, it takes me 5-6 hours to do might nightly reading which is about 50 pages.

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby snowpeach06 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:33 pm

goosey wrote:just wondering if your crim law classes are covering the same thing as mine---we're spending an awful lot of time on theories of punishment, proportionality, etc. how much of this stuff should make its way into one's outline??

The reasons for punishment are pretty much key to the course. Proportionality and whatnot has a lot to do with that, so I'd imagine it's worth including.

Kretzy
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Kretzy » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:06 pm

Things here are great. Everyone is interesting, the workload is reasonable (and 2Ls keep saying how much lighter it will get, at least until mid-November), and things are fairly laid back. 3 of my 4 professors are wonderful (each in their own different ways), and 1 is a bit too intense but very nice. Each of them treats us well though.

Take today in Contracts.

Prof: Kretzy, did the defendant agree?
Kretzy: Yes.
Prof: Can you think of a shorter answer?

(entire class laughs, myself included)

It actually felt kind of good to "whiff." The professor made a joke and everyone moved on. I felt better (and I'm guessing other folks did as well, since it was our first "miss" as a group)

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Knock
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Knock » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:09 pm

Kretzy wrote:Things here are great. Everyone is interesting, the workload is reasonable (and 2Ls keep saying how much lighter it will get, at least until mid-November), and things are fairly laid back. 3 of my 4 professors are wonderful (each in their own different ways), and 1 is a bit too intense but very nice. Each of them treats us well though.

Take today in Contracts.

Prof: Kretzy, did the defendant agree?
Kretzy: Yes.
Prof: Can you think of a shorter answer?

(entire class laughs, myself included)

It actually felt kind of good to "whiff." The professor made a joke and everyone moved on. I felt better (and I'm guessing other folks did as well, since it was our first "miss" as a group)


I lol'd. Sounds like a great atmosphere up there. How intense is the professor that's too intense? Do you think you'll get used to his teaching style?

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Unitas
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Unitas » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:59 pm

Knockglock wrote:
Kretzy wrote:Things here are great. Everyone is interesting, the workload is reasonable (and 2Ls keep saying how much lighter it will get, at least until mid-November), and things are fairly laid back. 3 of my 4 professors are wonderful (each in their own different ways), and 1 is a bit too intense but very nice. Each of them treats us well though.

Take today in Contracts.

Prof: Kretzy, did the defendant agree?
Kretzy: Yes.
Prof: Can you think of a shorter answer?

(entire class laughs, myself included)

It actually felt kind of good to "whiff." The professor made a joke and everyone moved on. I felt better (and I'm guessing other folks did as well, since it was our first "miss" as a group)


I lol'd. Sounds like a great atmosphere up there. How intense is the professor that's too intense? Do you think you'll get used to his teaching style?


That is just beyond awesome Kretzy...

All of my professor are good and have treated everyone with respect.

savagecheater
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby savagecheater » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:28 pm

I'm going to try and break into outlining Sunday. I honestly would be doing so sooner, but I simply don't have the material to do so...and I'm doubtful about my material for Sunday even.

I mean, for Torts we're just breaking into modern law - I could tell you how ENGLISH COURTS FROM 1800 loved strict liability, but we just got into real modern negligence cases on Tuesday. Crim, we're still on theory - we have had some cases, but the cases have been to illustrate how that theory works. I know virtually nothing that would come up on an exam, besides the fact that it's pretty unwise to be liberal with statutory interpretation. I guess I could outline for K's, but even there we haven't learned much that could be made into an outline.

Anyone else feel the same?

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Unitas
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Unitas » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:50 pm

betasteve wrote:I would argue that outlining this early in the game is too early. My 2 cents.


betasteve, my plan is to take my notes "all handwritten" and organize them into word documents for each class with headers, links inside the document, additional notes (some things I wrote copy from this page instead of writing it down), and so forth. I planned on doing this for twofold reasons; 1. To get my notes out of my handwriting and into a word file (prevent me from forgetting why I wrote something) and 2. To refresh what we went over for the week. It would only take me about an hour total to accomplish this for my four classes. Then towards the end of the semester I would go through my notes and make a more traditional outline. Is this a good idea? Any reason it is a bad one?

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Unitas
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Unitas » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:04 pm

betasteve wrote:
Unitas wrote:
betasteve wrote:I would argue that outlining this early in the game is too early. My 2 cents.


betasteve, my plan is to take my notes "all handwritten" and organize them into word documents for each class with headers, links inside the document, additional notes (some things I wrote copy from this page instead of writing it down), and so forth. I planned on doing this for twofold reasons; 1. To get my notes out of my handwriting and into a word file (prevent me from forgetting why I wrote something) and 2. To refresh what we went over for the week. It would only take me about an hour total to accomplish this for my four classes. Then towards the end of the semester I would go through my notes and make a more traditional outline. Is this a good idea? Any reason it is a bad one?

The good idea is the one that is going to work for you. That said, I would caution against getting too wrapped up in setting up lots of "features" of your outline.
For me, I outlined late in the game for two reasons: 1) it served as a huge refresher very close to finals and 2) it allowed me to look at the first 3/4 of the year through the lens of the last 1/4—meaning, i got to draw connections and see where doctrines were interwoven. It helped with synthesis.

That said, I know plenty of people that did well by starting around the midway point or slightly earlier.


Thank you for the advice. I appreciate it.

Kretzy
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby Kretzy » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:23 pm

Knockglock wrote:I lol'd. Sounds like a great atmosphere up there. How intense is the professor that's too intense? Do you think you'll get used to his teaching style?


I think we're all fairly used to it now. It's still less intense than I imagined, because this professor panels 5 of us for a day and will only call on those folks. For all but 3 days, you're not on, and you know beforehand when you'll need to be on top of things. This professor emphasizes the notes in the casebook, and will expect us to recall any of them (even if they are just noted, rather than just those we're reading the decisions of) for our final exam.

The professor is quite nice though, if not direct ("No, that's just not right" came out a couple of times today). It's FAR more humane than I expected, and simply feels more intense due to how low-key everything has been in the other courses.

It's a wonderful place though. I figured I'd give you an answer before bar review :)

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BioEBear2010
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Re: 1Ls, what's your impression thus far?

Postby BioEBear2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:31 pm

Kretzy, get off TLS and read your crim :D

Also, I hope you like German beer.




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