After sitting through ethics orientation

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270910
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby 270910 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:48 pm

This is from my Cornell application:

Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been cited, arrested, taken into custody, charged with, indicted, convicted or tried for, or
pleaded guilty to, the commission of any felony or misdemeanor or the violation of any law, except minor parking or traffic violations, or been
the subject of any juvenile delinquency or youthful offender proceeding?


That seems to be a common formulation. Obviously your application may be different.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:52 pm

disco_barred wrote:This is from my Cornell application:

Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been cited, arrested, taken into custody, charged with, indicted, convicted or tried for, or
pleaded guilty to, the commission of any felony or misdemeanor or the violation of any law, except minor parking or traffic violations, or been
the subject of any juvenile delinquency or youthful offender proceeding?


That seems to be a common formulation. Obviously your application may be different.


Yup! Different application. 8)

For that particular application, I'd have to disclose my juvenile arrest.

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vamedic03
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:34 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:
Expanding on the arrest, I was booked and fingerprinted and then they called my parents to come pick me up. :roll:
Then, they dropped all my charges, no charges were pressed against me, and I was given community service in the form of cleaning-up a public park.

Was I supposed to disclose this arrest?


This is kind of confusing... if they "dropped all [your] charges" then you were charged.... who made you do community service? A court? The only way a court could do this is if you were charged with a crime and appeared before it.

You should probably be disclosing this as a 'charge.' FWIW - schools aren't going to care about this sort of thing so long as you disclose it

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:38 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:
Expanding on the arrest, I was booked and fingerprinted and then they called my parents to come pick me up. :roll:
Then, they dropped all my charges, no charges were pressed against me, and I was given community service in the form of cleaning-up a public park.

Was I supposed to disclose this arrest?


This is kind of confusing... if they "dropped all [your] charges" then you were charged.... who made you do community service? A court? The only way a court could do this is if you were charged with a crime and appeared before it.

You should probably be disclosing this as a 'charge.' FWIW - schools aren't going to care about this sort of thing so long as you disclose it


I agree that it's weird. I never went to court, or I don't think I went to court for this particular thing. I went to a juvenile processing center and this is where I was given the community service.

I only remember the police station where I was arrested, and where I had to go to begin serving community service. Was there a different administrative agency in between? Hard to say. This happened a long time ago. I'm almost sure I didn't go before a judge for this particular incident.


Edit:

I'll think about it more as the night progresses, then possibly disclose it tomorrow and update on TLS accordingly.

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PKSebben
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby PKSebben » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:27 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:
Expanding on the arrest, I was booked and fingerprinted and then they called my parents to come pick me up. :roll:
Then, they dropped all my charges, no charges were pressed against me, and I was given community service in the form of cleaning-up a public park.

Was I supposed to disclose this arrest?


This is kind of confusing... if they "dropped all [your] charges" then you were charged.... who made you do community service? A court? The only way a court could do this is if you were charged with a crime and appeared before it.

You should probably be disclosing this as a 'charge.' FWIW - schools aren't going to care about this sort of thing so long as you disclose it


I agree that it's weird. I never went to court, or I don't think I went to court for this particular thing. I went to a juvenile processing center and this is where I was given the community service.

I only remember the police station where I was arrested, and where I had to go to begin serving community service. Was there a different administrative agency in between? Hard to say. This happened a long time ago. I'm almost sure I didn't go before a judge for this particular incident.


Edit:

I'll think about it more as the night progresses, then possibly disclose it tomorrow and update on TLS accordingly.


which state?

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:42 am

PKSebben wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:
Expanding on the arrest, I was booked and fingerprinted and then they called my parents to come pick me up. :roll:
Then, they dropped all my charges, no charges were pressed against me, and I was given community service in the form of cleaning-up a public park.

Was I supposed to disclose this arrest?


This is kind of confusing... if they "dropped all [your] charges" then you were charged.... who made you do community service? A court? The only way a court could do this is if you were charged with a crime and appeared before it.

You should probably be disclosing this as a 'charge.' FWIW - schools aren't going to care about this sort of thing so long as you disclose it


I agree that it's weird. I never went to court, or I don't think I went to court for this particular thing. I went to a juvenile processing center and this is where I was given the community service.

I only remember the police station where I was arrested, and where I had to go to begin serving community service. Was there a different administrative agency in between? Hard to say. This happened a long time ago. I'm almost sure I didn't go before a judge for this particular incident.


Edit:

I'll think about it more as the night progresses, then possibly disclose it tomorrow and update on TLS accordingly.


which state?


California - the southern part. Los Angeles County.

Well, regarding the charges, they were not dropped. The property owner at the time of the arrest did not press charges. The state didn't press any charges against me.

If they didn't press charges, then what happened to me? Nothing. I just got arrested, but was referred to a juvenile processing center and assigned a case worker to handle my community service.

270910
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:12 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:If they didn't press charges, then what happened to me? Nothing. I just got arrested, but was referred to a juvenile processing center and assigned a case worker to handle my community service.


If a state compelled you to do community service as a result of a transgression, there's a 99% chance your application requested that information to be disclosed. But you're basically having a conversation with yourself because we have no idea how your application is phrased, so I don't really know what the point in continuing here is.

BobSacamano
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby BobSacamano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:35 pm

There's really no need to scare this guy/girl.

My dean gave us the same speech last year. I know two people that went to talk to him after the speech and had their applications amended. He assured them that there would be absolutely no issue come bar admission time. Unless the thing you didn't disclose was really, really bad (something that would have barred your application in the first place, for example) they are not going to expel you.

Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of people pass C&F. If your infraction was caught you would probably have to go in front of the C&F board, and perhaps do some sort of appeals thing, but you would still probably pass.

You should go talk to your dean now. Right now. Don't wait.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:51 pm

Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of people pass C&F. If your infraction was caught you would probably have to go in front of the C&F board, and perhaps do some sort of appeals thing, but you would still probably pass.


Most of the people who do fail C&F do so because of making a material false statement or omission to C&F, or in the law school application process. The former is obviously worse (and can be automatic), but the latter is not exactly good.

OP was dumb and should correct his mistake promptly.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:47 pm

Alright! Great news! I turned in an addendum indicating I had to change my response to the question asking if I've ever been "arrested" from a negative to an affirmative response.

They gave me a hard time about it, but once they saw that it was such a long time ago, they eased up. Also, they saw the nature of the offense and why I was arrested and they were shocked. Their faces lead me to believe that they were somehow shocked that I was arrested for such a thing. I've always felt like I was racially profiled, but whatever. So long story short, they said it shouldn't be a problem, but they would still like me to speak with the Assistant Dean of Admissions.

I turned in the addendum to my application first thing in the morning before orientation officially began. I wasn't kicked out of orientation nor law school! 8)


Edit: I looked up my personal record to find out the crucial information that I had forgotten. It turns out, I was arrested, then sent home with my parents. However, I was referred to a juvenile court where the state dismissed my charges. No charges were pressed against me from the other party involved. So the juvenile court then referred me to a case worker at a juvenile justice center and this is where I was given community service.

I don't remember stepping in front of a judge, however. I'm sure it happened due to the administrative proceeding, but I simply have no recollection. :?

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jdubb990
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby jdubb990 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:50 pm

Yes, I have good news as well. I come clean about my expungements and dropped charges. They were very happy that I was up front, open and honest. Now I just have to write an amendment to my application and I will be gravy.

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FromRussiaWithLove
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby FromRussiaWithLove » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:13 pm

When people are given community service and get their charges dropped that still means that charges were brought against them. If, as a juvenile, I get drunk and then arrested, taken to a juvenile holding center, get picked up by my parents, get referred to a state worker who gives me an alcohol diversion program or community service, and all my charges are then dismissed and eventually expunged, I would still have technically been charged.

It doesn't matter because you did the right thing and disclosed but I am pretty sure that you were indeed charged then.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:58 pm

FromRussiaWithLove wrote:When people are given community service and get their charges dropped that still means that charges were brought against them. If, as a juvenile, I get drunk and then arrested, taken to a juvenile holding center, get picked up by my parents, get referred to a state worker who gives me an alcohol diversion program or community service, and all my charges are then dismissed and eventually expunged, I would still have technically been charged.

It doesn't matter because you did the right thing and disclosed but I am pretty sure that you were indeed charged then.


Yeah, I understand, but I forgot a lot of crucial details about my arrest. I was arrested in 1995. :shock:

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:43 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:
FromRussiaWithLove wrote:When people are given community service and get their charges dropped that still means that charges were brought against them. If, as a juvenile, I get drunk and then arrested, taken to a juvenile holding center, get picked up by my parents, get referred to a state worker who gives me an alcohol diversion program or community service, and all my charges are then dismissed and eventually expunged, I would still have technically been charged.

It doesn't matter because you did the right thing and disclosed but I am pretty sure that you were indeed charged then.


Yeah, I understand, but I forgot a lot of crucial details about my arrest. I was arrested in 1995. :shock:


Just got an email from the Dean of Admissions regarding my application update and he said all is great!

He did say to investigate what the California Bar might have to say regarding my arrest, but I can see it won't be a problem. So it's all good in da hood!

creatinganalt
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:40 am

On this note, advice for my situation:

(though I don't consider myself a liar who omitted criminal activity because I knew it could hurt me. This was a genuine mistake.)

I filled in my law school app and didn't check some of the dates flowing from the common form to my individual application. So 3 of the dates on my jobs are wrong - like stupidly wrong - so 03/09 (March 09) is down as 3 September. For two of the jobs, the end date is before the start date. On my application form it makes absolutely no sense but I didn't catch it and neither did the adcoms! Probably because I also submitted a resume, which is correct. When I realised (when filling in forms later) I called the school and asked them to amend it - they said it didn't matter and no one cared. I pointed out that it was a discrepancy for the bar etc. They basically put the phone down.

Should I chase this and get it corrected when I arrive?

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soaponarope
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby soaponarope » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:11 am

creatinganalt wrote:On this note, advice for my situation:

(though I don't consider myself a liar who omitted criminal activity because I knew it could hurt me. This was a genuine mistake.)

I filled in my law school app and didn't check some of the dates flowing from the common form to my individual application. So 3 of the dates on my jobs are wrong - like stupidly wrong - so 03/09 (March 09) is down as 3 September. For two of the jobs, the end date is before the start date. On my application form it makes absolutely no sense but I didn't catch it and neither did the adcoms! Probably because I also submitted a resume, which is correct. When I realised (when filling in forms later) I called the school and asked them to amend it - they said it didn't matter and no one cared. I pointed out that it was a discrepancy for the bar etc. They basically put the phone down.

Should I chase this and get it corrected when I arrive?


What part of "it didn't matter, and no one cares" did you not comprehend? The ethics comm are only concerned with fraud, thieves, felonies, (academic fraud), etc... There are so many people they have to interview that these BS minuscule "nothings" would never, ever, be an issue.

creatinganalt
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Re: After sitting through ethics orientation

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:51 am

soaponarope wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:On this note, advice for my situation:

(though I don't consider myself a liar who omitted criminal activity because I knew it could hurt me. This was a genuine mistake.)

I filled in my law school app and didn't check some of the dates flowing from the common form to my individual application. So 3 of the dates on my jobs are wrong - like stupidly wrong - so 03/09 (March 09) is down as 3 September. For two of the jobs, the end date is before the start date. On my application form it makes absolutely no sense but I didn't catch it and neither did the adcoms! Probably because I also submitted a resume, which is correct. When I realised (when filling in forms later) I called the school and asked them to amend it - they said it didn't matter and no one cared. I pointed out that it was a discrepancy for the bar etc. They basically put the phone down.

Should I chase this and get it corrected when I arrive?


What part of "it didn't matter, and no one cares" did you not comprehend? The ethics comm are only concerned with fraud, thieves, felonies, (academic fraud), etc... There are so many people they have to interview that these BS minuscule "nothings" would never, ever, be an issue.


Thanks for the confirmation!




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