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sibley
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby sibley » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:40 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:So how are you guys handling the reading.

I will brief cases for sure.

For now, I'm looking at reading the an EE, then a hornbook, and finally the casebook.
What are some of your approaches to the reading?

I want to go from a basic to complex understanding of a concept.


Also, what about legal dictionaries? I don't want to lug Black's Law Dictionary around campus. Anyone have alternatives to Black's?

Thanks.


I had a pre-class with a professor who basically gave all the advice that everyone on here gives... I just put it in bullet format to tape to my wall for use when reading cases. I'm not going to brief them unless the professor asks us to. I'll just write in the margins so I can find the important stuff for class. Like Talon says. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=123699

As for order of reading... I haven't even bought any supplements yet. I'm not going to for any particular class until it's clear I'm at a disadvantage for not (eg. the book expects me to know things that I'll be taught in a course next semester)... or until the professor recommends one in his syllabus, which one has done already. I had class with these girls who read the cases but didn't even try to understand on their own... always just googled it. Bad to not try first.

Black's: Buy the iphone version. http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2009/ ... phone.html. Or just do what I've been doing... type it into google and skim the results. ...I'll probably get a dictionary too.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:46 pm

sibley wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:So how are you guys handling the reading.

I will brief cases for sure.

For now, I'm looking at reading the an EE, then a hornbook, and finally the casebook.
What are some of your approaches to the reading?

I want to go from a basic to complex understanding of a concept.


Also, what about legal dictionaries? I don't want to lug Black's Law Dictionary around campus. Anyone have alternatives to Black's?

Thanks.


I had a pre-class with a professor who basically gave all the advice that everyone on here gives... I just put it in bullet format to tape to my wall for use when reading cases. I'm not going to brief them unless the professor asks us to. I'll just write in the margins so I can find the important stuff for class. Like Talon says. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=123699


I thought professors don't ask you to brief cases. They simply asks you to read.

As far as the iphone version of Black's, it assumes I have an iphone. I don't. :(

I'll check online to see what I can find. Thanks.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:56 pm

Law.com has a free online legal dictionary.

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manbearwig
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby manbearwig » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:07 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:I thought professors don't ask you to brief cases. They simply asks you to read.


I just finished orientation week, and at least half of the time was focused on how to brief cases, including in the classes I had.

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inchoate_con
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby inchoate_con » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:47 am

Took longer than expected

OneNote Guide
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=127496

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:27 am

inchoate_con wrote:Took longer than expected

OneNote Guide
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=127496


Thank you!

JOThompson
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby JOThompson » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:58 am

Apologies if this has already been discussed in detail, but has anyone developed an efficient highlighting system yet? I'm thinking of using four colors (highlighters or twistable crayons) to mark the holding, reasoning, facts, and procedural history. It's been taking me a ridiculous amount of time underlining and briefing in the margins so I'm looking for some decent alternatives that'll allow me to not look like an idiot when called upon.

sibley
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby sibley » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:04 am

I dunno... you sound super organized. Changing colors is both too confusing and too time-consuming for me. I use a combination of underlining, brackets, and arrows/circled words. underlining for tier 1, brackets for tier 2. arrows/circled words for key points I guess.

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jayn3
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby jayn3 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:05 am

JOThompson wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed in detail, but has anyone developed an efficient highlighting system yet? I'm thinking of using four colors (highlighters or twistable crayons) to mark the holding, reasoning, facts, and procedural history. It's been taking me a ridiculous amount of time underlining and briefing in the margins so I'm looking for some decent alternatives that'll allow me to not look like an idiot when called upon.

i was thinking of underlining, writing what it is in the margins, and then doing a very quick summary in outline form on my computer to look it up in class.

but class still doesn't start for another two weeks so i don't know if it'll work yet :(

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:22 am

JOThompson wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed in detail, but has anyone developed an efficient highlighting system yet? I'm thinking of using four colors (highlighters or twistable crayons) to mark the holding, reasoning, facts, and procedural history. It's been taking me a ridiculous amount of time underlining and briefing in the margins so I'm looking for some decent alternatives that'll allow me to not look like an idiot when called upon.


The highlighting/different color method of outlining is mentioned in LEEWS, so I'm assuming others use it. I use different colors for certain segments in my notes. At the moment, I'm reviewing a bit of inductive and deductive reasoning. I'll use the categorical syllogism as an example.

All men are mortal.
Socrates is a man.
Socrates is mortal.


Major term
Middle term
Minor term

You want to use the same principle. That is, using certain colors for the
facts, (F)
issue, (I)
holding, (H)
rule, (R)
procedural history, (P)
reasoning.(R)

I'll be briefing the "old fashioned" way by typing out briefs after I read the cases and find the relevant information. Using different colors does not appeal to me.
Last edited by SwollenMonkey on Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Duralex
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Duralex » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:29 am

The color thing doesn't really thrill me. I'm using table-based templates I've created instead. I fill them out as I read (or after I've read.) I can post 'caps of them if people are interested.

On dictionaries, I've cribbed this from the U-Dub website and (and removed the local references.)

U.S. Legal Dictionaries

Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed. 2009) is the most frequently used U.S. legal dictionary. Westlaw: BLACKS
Modern Dictionary for the Legal Profession, 3d ed. LexisNexis: MDLP

Garner, A Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage, 2d ed. LexisNexis: DMLU. Offers guidance for writers (and speakers) who want to use language well.

Ballentine's Law Dictionary, 3d ed. LexisNexis: BTINES

The Law Dictionary. LexisNexis: LAWDIC

Merriam Webster's Dictionary of Law (1996) is on Findlaw.

Cornell's Legal Information Institute Wex is an online legal dictionary and encyclopedia.

Dean's Law Dictionary is an online-only dictionary.



Introductory or Aimed at Nonlawyers

U.S. Courts, Commonly Used Terms

Law.com dictionary

Harvard Law Library's One-L Dictionary [Link broken, not available on the Wayback machine. Anyone have this dumped to a file?]

Glossary of Terms Used in Legal Research (from Fundamentals of Legal Research)



stupid formatting tags.
Last edited by Duralex on Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:45 am, edited 4 times in total.

sibley
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby sibley » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:32 am

Duralex wrote:The color thing doesn't really thrill me. I'm using table-based templates I've created instead. I fill them out as I read (or after I've read.) I can post 'caps of them if people are interested.


yes please.

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TTH
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby TTH » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:48 am

Can anyone recommend a good program for making flow charts that's relatively cheap? I liked the flowcharts Talon used for Civ Pro, but I've never made them before.

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Duralex
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Duralex » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:07 pm

Here they are. They are in RTF originally, for use in DevonThink, which is why the tables are a little wonky.

The general principal here follows the Cornell format. Rows are added to the sub-sections as needed.

Form for brief--

My brief, the professors comments, and my further notes all go into separate columns. In the discussion section, the topics are as the prof gives them, then comments are what the prof says about them, then notes are anything that occurs to me (ideas, questions, etc.)

Image
Image
That gap between the Review heading and the last table doesn't exist on the real form.

Form for the lecture notes not case specifc (although I insert links to the case briefs [and sometimes to WL too] in the table at the top).

Image

So far I'm liking doing it this way. It works well for the kind of cross-referencing and indexing that makes me love DevonThink. I'm still tinkering a little, but they won't be changing much more.

I may play with some PDF highlighting and annotation later (if my debind and scan experiments pan out), but for now this is it. I do make some marginal annotations and pencil underline key passages in the casebook as I fill out the forms. (I prefer pencil in case I mark something I later don't want marked.)

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Duralex
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Duralex » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:22 pm

TTH wrote:Can anyone recommend a good program for making flow charts that's relatively cheap? I liked the flowcharts Talon used for Civ Pro, but I've never made them before.


Take a look at the Free Software entries here first:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mi ... g_software
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... g_software

and see if one of those will do for your needs. (I'd suggest FreeMind/FreePlane/SciPlore and other FreeMind based entries, or Compendium.)

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traehekat
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby traehekat » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:43 pm

JOThompson wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed in detail, but has anyone developed an efficient highlighting system yet? I'm thinking of using four colors (highlighters or twistable crayons) to mark the holding, reasoning, facts, and procedural history. It's been taking me a ridiculous amount of time underlining and briefing in the margins so I'm looking for some decent alternatives that'll allow me to not look like an idiot when called upon.


Honestly I think the multi-color highlighting is a little unnecessary, and I believe a number of people who have written 'Success in Law School' threads have agreed with this sentiment. Obviously everyone learns different, so it may be effective for you, but I really think the more complicated/intricate you make your briefs (if you brief at all), the more time you are wasting. Less is more in regards to briefing - I really think you only need to extract/remember the rule established by the case and in what context the rule is applied.

I've just been highlighting while reading the cases, and then quickly writing stuff like issue, procedural posture, etc. in the margins. When I finish with the reading I go back and type out a brief as concise as possible. I try not to use long quotes. Just very quickly spit out the facts/procedural history/holding/issue/reasoning in as plain language as possible. I think in the future I will add a separate section for the 'rule' so it is clearly stated and easy to remember/find.

EDIT: One caveat to this method is that I will probably not look like a genius in class. I will be able to state the rule but if the professor asks where the rule is in the opinion I'll have to go back through the reading. Will it be a disaster? Probably not. Will I be wowing the professor? Again, probably not. Does it really matter either way? Well... probably not!

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philosoraptor
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby philosoraptor » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:54 pm

You guys are intense.

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jayn3
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby jayn3 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:55 pm

philosoraptor wrote:You guys are intense.

please refer to the thread title

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MrKappus
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby MrKappus » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:57 pm

There is a hilariously massive amount of hard (not smart) working ITT.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:06 pm

MrKappus wrote:There is a hilariously massive amount of hard (not smart) working ITT.



I second this.

Highlighters in general annoy me, much less a full on rainbow of them.

I'm briefing stuff in Word as I read.

Name of case
Facts (limited to 6 so I focus on the key ones)
Issues
Holding / Rules
Takeaways

No more than one page, important stuff underlined and bolded.

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romothesavior
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby romothesavior » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:26 pm

MrKappus wrote:There is a hilariously massive amount of hard (not smart) working ITT.


Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Huge +1. I'm only a 1L and even I :roll: at people who think hard, grind it out, have no life type of work = top 10%.

Yes, we have to work hard. But pretending like studying smart and just plain BEING smart are minimal factors is lulzy. I'm tired of all my classmates and fellow TLSers bragging about how hard they're going to work and how they are going to do "whatever it takes" to be at the top of the class. I knew the chest thumping was a huge part of law school, but I guess I didn't realize how much it would get under my skin.

/rant

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philosoraptor
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby philosoraptor » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:35 pm

jayn3 wrote:
philosoraptor wrote:You guys are intense.

please refer to the thread title
It was a compliment.

Wavelet
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Wavelet » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:45 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:
JOThompson wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed in detail, but has anyone developed an efficient highlighting system yet? I'm thinking of using four colors (highlighters or twistable crayons) to mark the holding, reasoning, facts, and procedural history. It's been taking me a ridiculous amount of time underlining and briefing in the margins so I'm looking for some decent alternatives that'll allow me to not look like an idiot when called upon.


The highlighting/different color method of outlining is mentioned in LEEWS, so I'm assuming others use it. I use different colors for certain segments in my notes. At the moment, I'm reviewing a bit of inductive and deductive reasoning. I'll use the categorical syllogism as an example.

All men are mortal.
Socrates is a man.
Socrates is mortal.


Major term
Middle term
Minor term

You want to use the same principle. That is, using certain colors for the
facts, (F)
issue, (I)
holding, (H)
rule, (R)
procedural history, (P)
reasoning.(R)

I'll be briefing the "old fashioned" way by typing out briefs after I read the cases and find the relevant information. Using different colors does not appeal to me.


Good lord, I didn't even know they made that many different colors of highlighter.

Here's a little secret about case briefs: only the RULE matters on the final exam (and maybe the issue, but only to the extent it helps you issue-spot and understand the rule). When you are studying for the exam, having so many other, irrelevant things highlighted will be distracting at best.

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traehekat
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby traehekat » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:12 pm

MrKappus wrote:There is a hilariously massive amount of hard (not smart) working ITT.


Illuminating, thank you.

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TTH
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby TTH » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:19 pm

traehekat wrote:
MrKappus wrote:There is a hilariously massive amount of hard (not smart) working ITT.


Illuminating, thank you.


I think there is more of a massive amount of figuring out the right way to work and working too hard as a result of that ITT.




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