Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

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bzsmith
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby bzsmith » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:48 pm

beach_terror wrote:
bzsmith wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
bzsmith wrote:

Let me put it this way. The SCOTUS has done well to decide things in accordance with public opinion, but what if they suddenly fuck up? They're not accountable to anyone, so.. uh, yeah. They can't enforce their opinions so we don't have to follow it, but that doesn't strike me as a fantastic idea.


Of course they are accountable. They are accountable to future courts which have the right and duty to either regard or disregard precedent, based on a myriad of factors...including changing cultural norms.

Are you really making this argument? I want to know you're serious before I bother responding.



I'm assuming you are questioning the seriousness of my "changing cultural norms" argument? Would you not agree that the concept of blacks riding on a train with white folksm post 14th amendment, changed between, say, 1870 and 1970?

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beach_terror
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:53 pm

bzsmith wrote:I'm assuming you are questioning the seriousness of my "changing cultural norms" argument? Would you not agree that the concept of blacks riding on a train with white folksm post 14th amendment, changed between, say, 1870 and 1970?

I'm questioning you finding the judiciary to be an accountable branch. The judicial branch is widely know as "the least accountable branch". Sure, there's a chance they can overturn past precedent. Yeah public perception changed between 1870 and 1970, but that's 100 fucking years man. The courts ideological makeup changes slowly and most of the time appointments are entirely unpredictable (oh hey J. Stevens). SCOTUS justices hang out until they feel like retiring. Legislators are accountable to their constituents a little bit more often (read: they're actually accountable). To rely on a court realizing their doing it wrong is misplaced faith, and not to mention pretty violative of federalism.

bzsmith
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby bzsmith » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:56 pm

beach_terror wrote:
bzsmith wrote:I'm assuming you are questioning the seriousness of my "changing cultural norms" argument? Would you not agree that the concept of blacks riding on a train with white folksm post 14th amendment, changed between, say, 1870 and 1970?

I'm questioning you finding the judiciary to be an accountable branch. The judicial branch is widely know as "the least accountable branch". Sure, there's a chance they can overturn past precedent. Yeah public perception changed between 1870 and 1970, but that's 100 fucking years man. The courts ideological makeup changes slowly and most of the time appointments are entirely unpredictable (oh hey J. Stevens). SCOTUS justices hang out until they feel like retiring. Legislators are accountable to their constituents a little bit more often (read: they're actually accountable). To rely on a court realizing their doing it wrong is misplaced faith, and not to mention pretty violative of federalism.


Perhaps my argument derives from my implicit mistrust of the crowd. I find comfort in a body of scholars (EDIT: scholars is too strong...perhaps non-accountable persons???) who aren't always accountable to the fickle masses...which, in a way, makes me a true conservative!

Either way, I'm sure that once I begin my legal education my opinions will change.

Enjoyed our conversation. I'm sure that Law School is not like this, but I hope that it is as nothing beats a good, reasoned argument.

stayway
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby stayway » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:01 pm

COME AT ME BRO

examplepdf
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby examplepdf » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:03 pm

can we revive the chatter a few pages back about good con law outlining supplements? chemeri's the man but i'm also going to get something like a gilbert or emanuel outline. i've been asking around friends/2Ls but haven't come up with much advice.

stayway
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby stayway » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

examplepdf wrote:can we revive the chatter a few pages back about good con law outlining supplements? chemeri's the man but i'm also going to get something like a gilbert or emanuel outline. i've been asking around friends/2Ls but haven't come up with much advice.


Personally, I liked the way Chemerinsky went about things. He gives criticisms and defending views on doctrines and organizes the material very well. (e.g. first, second, third, etc). I'd just approach it: Chemerinsky + Prof + PTs

Discretion: 1L taking con law right now.

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beach_terror
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby beach_terror » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

examplepdf wrote:can we revive the chatter a few pages back about good con law outlining supplements? chemeri's the man but i'm also going to get something like a gilbert or emanuel outline. i've been asking around friends/2Ls but haven't come up with much advice.

I'm just outlining based on the format of my book and class notes. Conlaw is a weird ass class that's very specific to your text and teacher, IMO.

@bz, yeah it was a interesting back and forth. Law school definitely isn't like that either, but take a philosophy based law course if you can.

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dailygrind
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby dailygrind » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:00 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
keg411 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Trying to decide whether barbri would be worth it to me....

(Unpaid judicial internship + living off residual student loans for the summer = super, super money-conscious)


You only have to give BarBri $50 for access to the 1L materials. But I'm in your spot, plus I'm going to have a commute this summer. Going to have to hustle for some type of nights/weekends paying job this summer (I'm pretty much going to apply for hostess jobs at every single bar and restaurant in my hometown and the surrounding areas starting in May).


Yeah, I think I've started measuring all of my spending in how many bags of beans, rice, or pasta that same money could buy. After suffering through the hell of waitering/bartending, I vowed never to return, but now I'm starting to panic, and think that might have to be at least an option.

It feels weird. On one hand, I managed to snag a highly sought-after federal judicial internship in a competitive market, but on the other hand, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to make money to eat and afford other COL things.


lol. the turning point in my splitter life was working as a dishwasher. ever since then i've been a damn good student. didn't mind waiting tables or bartending, though...kinda liked the job at times.

keg411
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:05 pm

dailygrind wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
keg411 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Trying to decide whether barbri would be worth it to me....

(Unpaid judicial internship + living off residual student loans for the summer = super, super money-conscious)


You only have to give BarBri $50 for access to the 1L materials. But I'm in your spot, plus I'm going to have a commute this summer. Going to have to hustle for some type of nights/weekends paying job this summer (I'm pretty much going to apply for hostess jobs at every single bar and restaurant in my hometown and the surrounding areas starting in May).


Yeah, I think I've started measuring all of my spending in how many bags of beans, rice, or pasta that same money could buy. After suffering through the hell of waitering/bartending, I vowed never to return, but now I'm starting to panic, and think that might have to be at least an option.

It feels weird. On one hand, I managed to snag a highly sought-after federal judicial internship in a competitive market, but on the other hand, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to make money to eat and afford other COL things.


lol. the turning point in my splitter life was working as a dishwasher. ever since then i've been a damn good student. didn't mind waiting tables or bartending, though...kinda liked the job at times.


Scooping ice cream with 16 year olds after college graduation was my splitter turning point :lol:. Thank god the place went out of business in the recession (it was a franchise; think Hagan Daaz, Basking Robbsins, Coldstone, etc.) because the owner was a sexist asshole. Still, I may be doing that this summer if I can't find anything else :? . Actually there are other franchises around so I may go to a couple of them for jobs since it's more seasonal than waitressing.

ETA: Had to go over my brief for Oral Argument. Saw I made more than one typo and left an important word out of a sentence (a REALLY important word that totally changes the meaning of the sentence and was really FML-worthy). Now I have to rock the Oral Argument or my chances at an A this semester are fucked :(.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:36 pm

My prof and all the judges said I had the best oral argument they have heard so far. My oral argument is ungraded and I barely prepared for it. Now I feel like I am doomed to B+ land. Feel lucky that your argument can actually affect your grade.

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snowpeach06
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:39 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:My prof and all the judges said I had the best oral argument they have heard so far. My oral argument is ungraded and I barely prepared for it. Now I feel like I am doomed to B+ land. Feel lucky that your argument can actually affect your grade.

Ditto. I did pretty well on my mock negotiation. Not the best ever, but, better than most people. But, it doesn't really impact our grades at all, so I too am doomed to b+ land, or lower if this paper doesn't go as planned.

Fucking b+ land. It fucked me out of getting a judicial externship this summer.

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snowpeach06
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:44 pm

This website must make me seem like such a downer. But, I swear, I only complain to people on the internet.

Oban
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby Oban » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:08 pm

beach_terror wrote:
mythosopher wrote:I never understood why people think so many cases are judicial activism. It's not activism if there is law and legal reasoning to back the holding, even if some of it is more abstract and principles-based. For example, I don't understand how Lawrence v. Texas is activism?

There's no textual support that there's a fundamental right to engage in homosexual sex. The judiciary steps into the legislative area by saying there is, and it's a huge stretch to say that the founders actually intended something so specific to be a fundamental right (plus, where do you draw the line? Brown? Homosexual sex? Abortion? you can't draw a line)

The electoral process is where the Texas statute should have been overruled. The judges aren't accountable to the people, to allow their word to be the last and devoid of any true textual support is a huge usurpation of power from the States.


The judicial branch was designed to be unaccountable. They are unelected for a reason, to counter the will of the majority(which is asserted through the executive and legislative branches). The Supreme court is not supposed to decide on public opinion but on what they think(of interpret if you want to get PC) the law is. Just because there is no precedent doesn't mean a decision is activism(that word is as meaningless as "states rights") you can base a decision on the constitution it self. Laurence v. Texas can easily be argued under the equal protection clause. If states give the right of sex to straight couples but deny it to gays, it violates the clause. You can also argue it under due process as the majority did. The constitution does not list every right or status provided for under each of it's clauses, thus it up to the unelected judiciary to fill in the gaps, the only way to do that is to come to a conclusion based on their opinions. Imagine if the supreme court only decided the gaps based on popular public opinion.

keg411
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:16 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:My prof and all the judges said I had the best oral argument they have heard so far. My oral argument is ungraded and I barely prepared for it. Now I feel like I am doomed to B+ land. Feel lucky that your argument can actually affect your grade.


I hope so. But if you had your OA before your brief, it will probably favorably affect your brief grade. We already turned ours in for a grade to make sure it was more "blind".

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:50 pm

keg411 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:My prof and all the judges said I had the best oral argument they have heard so far. My oral argument is ungraded and I barely prepared for it. Now I feel like I am doomed to B+ land. Feel lucky that your argument can actually affect your grade.


I hope so. But if you had your OA before your brief, it will probably favorably affect your brief grade. We already turned ours in for a grade to make sure it was more "blind".


We turned ours in a week before Oral arguments but I can only assume she hasnt started grading them and even if she did the overall grade when you're close to an A- but still technically at a B+ could be subjectively affected.

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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby keg411 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:33 am

BarbellDreams wrote:
keg411 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:My prof and all the judges said I had the best oral argument they have heard so far. My oral argument is ungraded and I barely prepared for it. Now I feel like I am doomed to B+ land. Feel lucky that your argument can actually affect your grade.


I hope so. But if you had your OA before your brief, it will probably favorably affect your brief grade. We already turned ours in for a grade to make sure it was more "blind".


We turned ours in a week before Oral arguments but I can only assume she hasnt started grading them and even if she did the overall grade when you're close to an A- but still technically at a B+ could be subjectively affected.


I guess. But you probably aren't a B+ and are probably being pessimistic, so don't worry about it (and so am I, as per usual :lol:).

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beach_terror
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby beach_terror » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:50 am

Phew, just finished the practice round of oral argument. Did better than I thought, I should crush the real thing if I actually.. you know, prepare for it. Thought I was going to get a discretionary C in LRW for having a shitty brief (and thinking I fucked up all of my bluebook cites, but turns out underlining is legit in briefs and you dont have to italicize), but it's actually solid as fuck.

keg411
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby keg411 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:11 pm

beach_terror wrote:Phew, just finished the practice round of oral argument. Did better than I thought, I should crush the real thing if I actually.. you know, prepare for it. Thought I was going to get a discretionary C in LRW for having a shitty brief (and thinking I fucked up all of my bluebook cites, but turns out underlining is legit in briefs and you dont have to italicize), but it's actually solid as fuck.


My prof says italics are really for Law Review articles and we should pretty much use underlining for everything else (though it doesn't matter for grade purposes).

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traehekat
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby traehekat » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:39 pm

Got graded brief back a couple days ago, not very pleased. Worth 30% of our grade and I definitely slipped a bit from last semester. Have to kill the appellate brief now to salvage a decent grade. I'm trying to find a little relief in the fact that a few of you guys dominated last semester, despite relatively mediocre legal writing grades.

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romothesavior
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby romothesavior » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:10 pm

traehekat wrote:Got graded brief back a couple days ago, not very pleased. Worth 30% of our grade and I definitely slipped a bit from last semester. Have to kill the appellate brief now to salvage a decent grade. I'm trying to find a little relief in the fact that a few of you guys dominated last semester, despite relatively mediocre legal writing grades.

I got mine back yesterday and I am furious. I have gotten the EXACT same grade on my closed memo, open memo, open memo research presentation, and closed brief. The exact same score on each one!!!! I get great grades in all my other classes, including research, but I can't even break median in Legal Practice! I worked my ass off on this last brief too, so I have no idea how I am going to turn things around on this open brief. I have been so consistently mediocre at legal writing, when I feel like I am a pretty good writer. It is maddening, to say the least.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:57 am

romothesavior wrote:
traehekat wrote:Got graded brief back a couple days ago, not very pleased. Worth 30% of our grade and I definitely slipped a bit from last semester. Have to kill the appellate brief now to salvage a decent grade. I'm trying to find a little relief in the fact that a few of you guys dominated last semester, despite relatively mediocre legal writing grades.

I got mine back yesterday and I am furious. I have gotten the EXACT same grade on my closed memo, open memo, open memo research presentation, and closed brief. The exact same score on each one!!!! I get great grades in all my other classes, including research, but I can't even break median in Legal Practice! I worked my ass off on this last brief too, so I have no idea how I am going to turn things around on this open brief. I have been so consistently mediocre at legal writing, when I feel like I am a pretty good writer. It is maddening, to say the least.


Romo, I'm thoroughly convinced that there's an inverse correlation between grades on LRW and 'real' courses.

You're not 'mediocre' at legal writing; I wasn't some LW superstar and my employer thought my writing sample was one of the best he'd ever seen - it's a measure of your professor's specific pet peeves that determine your grade.

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traehekat
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby traehekat » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:31 am

YourCaptain wrote:it's a measure of your professor's specific pet peeves that determine your grade.


yeah im pretty confident TITCR.

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snowpeach06
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby snowpeach06 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:23 am

romothesavior wrote:
traehekat wrote:Got graded brief back a couple days ago, not very pleased. Worth 30% of our grade and I definitely slipped a bit from last semester. Have to kill the appellate brief now to salvage a decent grade. I'm trying to find a little relief in the fact that a few of you guys dominated last semester, despite relatively mediocre legal writing grades.

I got mine back yesterday and I am furious. I have gotten the EXACT same grade on my closed memo, open memo, open memo research presentation, and closed brief. The exact same score on each one!!!! I get great grades in all my other classes, including research, but I can't even break median in Legal Practice! I worked my ass off on this last brief too, so I have no idea how I am going to turn things around on this open brief. I have been so consistently mediocre at legal writing, when I feel like I am a pretty good writer. It is maddening, to say the least.

Hey... me too. I've gotten a half a point above media for each one of my assignments, and I know I'm a good writer. In fact, my argument sections are always among the best, but, sometimes I don't have noun-pronoun agreement or whatever, and my teacher flips out and takes off a million points. Plus, at least half the people I know with A's got at least one C in a real class.

keg411
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:10 pm

I consider myself a very, very good writer and I did well in both LRW and my doctrinal classes, and know other people who did well in both as well. It's really all about keeping the structure the exact way the prof wants it. Sure, you can get points for brilliant arguments, but you get the same amount of points (if not more) for a perfect CREAC and perfect citations and don't use passive voice or informal language.

However, I'm not going to doubt that it's a nitpicky class. It is. But I think writers in general focus too much on content and never learn proper writing structure. Obviously, I can't comment on anyone's writing ITT because I've never read your work and don't have your professor.

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beach_terror
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Re: Thread Unworthy 1L fears, inquiries, and rants welcome here

Postby beach_terror » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:01 pm

keg411 wrote:I consider myself a very, very good writer and I did well in both LRW and my doctrinal classes

PDaddy?




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