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Burger in a can
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:15 pm

kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


There was a "class" at the admitted students day at my school, and a couple of kids wanted to be called on so badly they were crawling out of their skin- almost standing while raising their hands and waving. At admitted students day. I just had to repeat that to let it sink in a little.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:17 pm

kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.



Slap them upside the head now. You'll feel better.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:18 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


There was a "class" at the admitted students day at my school, and a couple of kids wanted to be called on so badly they were crawling out of their skin- almost standing while raising their hands and waving. At admitted students day. I just had to repeat that to let it sink in a little.



Do they not know that class participation doesn't matter? I'm guessing not.

Burger in a can
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:19 pm

Duralex wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
Duralex wrote:FWIW--I take a single legal pad with me and anything I feel complelled to draw/scribble gets scanned and imported into that class's repository--the resulting PDF can't be full text searched (my handwriting doesn't OCR well) but it can be tagged, linked, or cut/pasted into the typewritten notes.

Then I stuff the original into a "just in case file" and dispose of it after the semester/year (probably.)


This is in addition to typing notes on a laptop? I won't criticize your system because I'm sure you do whatever works best for you, but this would be impossibly redundant for me. If I were going to be scanning paper to PDF after every class, why even bother dragging the laptop along? Again, I'm sure you have your reasons (I've seen your other impressively tech-minded posts) but in my opinion this is not a better method than just putting pen to paper.


I put pen to paper when so moved for the kinesthetic-mnemonic hook, or to quickly capture a diagram that would take too long to do on the laptop. I then scan it because the whole point of my system to keep everything available digitally, and make it portable. I keep the pen and ink input to a minimum and then unify it with the primary set of notes so I don't need to look in two places, because I study in three locations (and because a protracted UG career has taught me that I lose paper too much.)
Also my handwritten note-taking style is a little too casual for LS, and tends to reflect my impressions more than the content of the lecture. Doing it digitally w/templates forces me to be more organized.


That's kind of rambling but hopefully the point comes across--I scan them precisely to avoid redundancy (e.g. so I don't need to transcribe the content of the handwritten note or diagram and then have the information existing in two different items.)


I meant it would seem like a waste to use the laptop at all, if you're bringing paper anyway (and therefore admitting, at least a little, that you're unable to rely on a computer alone for taking notes) but your explanation makes sense, especially because you feel that handwritten notes are also inadequate on their own, and because you want to store stuff electronically. I'm the exact opposite way; to me, paper is permanency. If it's digital, it gets lost. But like I said, to each his own. :)

Burger in a can
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:22 pm

kalvano wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


There was a "class" at the admitted students day at my school, and a couple of kids wanted to be called on so badly they were crawling out of their skin- almost standing while raising their hands and waving. At admitted students day. I just had to repeat that to let it sink in a little.



Do they not know that class participation doesn't matter? I'm guessing not.


I think they're the kind of people whose love for the sound of their own voices supersedes any conventional wisdom or logic. Like how OJ just can't seem to shut the hell up about how he got away with murder, because the spotlight is too warm and glorious to resist.

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inchoate_con
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby inchoate_con » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:28 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


There was a "class" at the admitted students day at my school, and a couple of kids wanted to be called on so badly they were crawling out of their skin- almost standing while raising their hands and waving. At admitted students day. I just had to repeat that to let it sink in a little.


Similar story: This lady in front of me had her hand stretched so high she was scratching the ceiling and had nasty pit stains. This is no shit, she was audibly grunting ew, ew, ew.... then let out a long "sigh...." when not called. After a being passed over a few times, she could not resist and blurted out "her opinion." Best part, she prefaced her remark with: "I know the class etiquette section said we're not suppose to speak out of turn, but...."

Best advice I ever received: Don't speak unless spoken to, and don't start your sentence with "I think...."

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:30 pm

kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


Where do you go to school?

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:32 pm

kalvano wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.



Slap them upside the head now. You'll feel better.


I took basic notes during the lecture. I was testing my livescribe to see if I am comfortable writing while someone is lecturing. The livescribe worked fine as it recorded all of my handwritten notes, and I'm viewing them on my laptop. However, my note-taking was kinda crappy cause I was pausing to think about what the lecturer was saying.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:32 pm

inchoate_con wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


There was a "class" at the admitted students day at my school, and a couple of kids wanted to be called on so badly they were crawling out of their skin- almost standing while raising their hands and waving. At admitted students day. I just had to repeat that to let it sink in a little.


Similar story: This lady in front of me had her hand stretched so high she was scratching the ceiling and had nasty pit stains. This is no shit, she was audibly grunting ew, ew, ew.... then let out a long "sigh...." when not called. After a being passed over a few times, she could not resist and blurted out "her opinion." Best part, she prefaced her remark with: "I know the class etiquette section said we're not suppose to speak out of turn, but...."

Best advice I ever received: Don't speak unless spoken to, and don't start your sentence with "I think...."


+1 Best advice ever! EVER!

Burger in a can
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:34 pm

inchoate_con wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


There was a "class" at the admitted students day at my school, and a couple of kids wanted to be called on so badly they were crawling out of their skin- almost standing while raising their hands and waving. At admitted students day. I just had to repeat that to let it sink in a little.


Similar story: This lady in front of me had her hand stretched so high she was scratching the ceiling and had nasty pit stains. This is no shit, she was audibly grunting ew, ew, ew.... then let out a long "sigh...." when not called. After a being passed over a few times, she could not resist and blurted out "her opinion." Best part, she prefaced her remark with: "I know the class etiquette section said we're not suppose to speak out of turn, but...."

Best advice I ever received: Don't speak unless spoken to, and don't start your sentence with "I think...."


I don't know about law school, but I have noticed that kind of person is usually the first to drop out/quit/make a dramatic exit/make a complete fool of themselves in the process. Sometimes life ain't so bad after all.

EDIT: This is precisely why the name of this thread needs to change. I could be wrong, but I think we are talking about gunners right now. And we don't like them. So we probably aren't them?
Last edited by Burger in a can on Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Duralex
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Duralex » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:36 pm

inchoate_con wrote:I went to buy a tablet PC this afternoon to combine the writing with OneNote (then ORC), but they are hard to find... or obsolete.


Take a look at Fujitsu.

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inchoate_con
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby inchoate_con » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:36 pm

Man, I hope that bitch does drop out because she's really starting to piss people off. Same lady will not shut the fuck up in a facebook group about exams.

kazootey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kazootey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:
kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


Where do you go to school?


Iowa

dakatz
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby dakatz » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 pm

inchoate_con wrote:Man, I hope that bitch does drop out because she's really starting to piss people off. Same lady will not shut the fuck up in a facebook group about exams.


What could she possibly be discussing about exams if class hasn't even started yet? I'm honestly curious to hear this.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:41 pm

dakatz wrote:
inchoate_con wrote:Man, I hope that bitch does drop out because she's really starting to piss people off. Same lady will not shut the fuck up in a facebook group about exams.


What could she possibly be discussing about exams if class hasn't even started yet? I'm honestly curious to hear this.



People like that don't discuss anything, they just talk out of their ass.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby SwollenMonkey » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:45 pm

kalvano wrote:
dakatz wrote:
inchoate_con wrote:Man, I hope that bitch does drop out because she's really starting to piss people off. Same lady will not shut the fuck up in a facebook group about exams.


What could she possibly be discussing about exams if class hasn't even started yet? I'm honestly curious to hear this.



People like that don't discuss anything, they just talk out of their ass.


Yup! A lot of people are talking out of their ass and wasting major money on the books by buying them at the law school bookstore. I guess it makes them feel good when a law school bookstore overcharges them for freaking books. Ha! Amazon.com with prime student shipping and you will save hundreds of dollars.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:46 pm

If anyone is interested, a friend of mine who graduated from law school a couple years ago sent me some advice. I can re-post it here.

Burger in a can
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:47 pm

kalvano wrote:If anyone is interested, a friend of mine who graduated from law school a couple years ago sent me some advice. I can re-post it here.

Image

dakatz
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby dakatz » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:47 pm

kalvano wrote:If anyone is interested, a friend of mine who graduated from law school a couple years ago sent me some advice. I can re-post it here.


Any advice from former students is appreciated.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby skoobily doobily » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:50 pm

dakatz wrote:
kalvano wrote:If anyone is interested, a friend of mine who graduated from law school a couple years ago sent me some advice. I can re-post it here.


Any advice from former students is appreciated.

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:52 pm

It's nothing Earth-shattering, but it's relevant and spoken by someone who did well.

On Supplements -

These supplements are a racket designed to steal money from paranoid law students. You could spend all day plowing through these supplements without ever running out of stuff to read. The downside there is that you can get distracted and tangled up in the weeds overthinking things. For example, my Contracts class discussed the offer element in two cases. I could have spent hours and hours reading far beyond the various situations that create offers, but at the end of the day, my professor tested based on the rules of law discussed in those two cases. Had I spent all that time reading beyond his assigned reading, I would have wasted time and possibly screwed up that issue on the exam.

Some classes have supplements that are universal and famous at every school. Chemerinsky's Con Law book is one; Chirelstein's federal income tax book is another. Some, like these, are so well done that even professors point them out as great resources.


Don't buy hornbooks. Yes, they look great on shelves, but you're not going to read them, and if you do want to turn to them for a nice description of something you're not understanding from your assigned cases, your library will have them. $200 on a book you turn to twice a semester is a total waste. But don't be afraid to look to them. They take all of the mystery out of a subject by removing the teaching through reading cases BS. They read like encyclopedia and can make a great intro to a topic if you're not getting it.




On Class -

Brief your own cases; don't buy those prepackaged books. Seriously. It's a major asship and timesink, but do it. You won't do it after your first year, but you won't need to. Do it for your first year, and you won't regret it. Learning from cases is not natural. You're not being told, "A contract requires an offer. An offer is..." Instead, you're going to read a case where some situation is described and the court is left to decide whether an offer was made. Take the time to understand the facts of these cases because that's where all the exam money lies. If you can understand and remember those facts, then you can later explain why the situation described in your exam either does or does not match the facts of the case read for class. Any asshole can memorize and repeat the law of those cases. The A's will be able to say why something is or is not an offer after considering the facts presented. And you get more out of this shit by doing it yourself over reading someone else's brief of a case.



I'd say the real art is learning to identify which facts are important and which aren't. Cases are full of useless facts that help tell a story. I guess it didn't take me long to brief cases. I pretty much briefed them in my book as I read and then typed it up into Word. In all, typing them up didn't add on that much to the time I spent reading. Typing it up did help because it functioned a lot like a second reading and was where I narrowed it down to what was important.

And honestly, when it came time to make my outlines, all I'd do is copy and paste the case names, a one line reminder fact summary, and the holdings/law of the cases into an outline. By briefing as I went, 95% of my outlining was done.


Your exam won't be a summary. Your exam will often be one long fact pattern with a question or series of questions at the end. Some of the skill you learn by reading the cases is plowing through a lot of crap to find what's important. Within a month or so, you will read this stuff faster and you will be better at it.


Now, I did always ignore the stuff put before and after the cases in your casebook. You will be pissed off when you realize you are spending $120 a class on a casebook that is little more than a reproduction of cases that are free for anyone to reproduce. These books are terribly done. The editorial material is usually garbage. After each case, they pose a number of questions without ever answering them. Yes, you could bog yourself down in these very academic exercises, but that doesn't mean you should skip reading the case itself.

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traehekat
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby traehekat » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:57 pm

kazootey wrote:Gunner alert: before our fake orientation class "Introduction to the American Legal system" today, there was a study group forming with students anxious to look good for this ungraded, "preparatory" class that is meant to give us a taste of what real classes might be like. A STUDY GROUP AT ORIENTATION!! Good lord I wanted to vomit.


yeah, it was some massive gunning. the only thing missing was someone ruffling through a crim law supplement (a class we dont have til spring for those who dont know...)

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inchoate_con
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby inchoate_con » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:58 pm

dakatz wrote:
inchoate_con wrote:Man, I hope that bitch does drop out because she's really starting to piss people off. Same lady will not shut the fuck up in a facebook group about exams.


What could she possibly be discussing about exams if class hasn't even started yet? I'm honestly curious to hear this.


Summer start.

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traehekat
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby traehekat » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:01 pm

oh by the way, kalvano its nice to see ya! what happened with wake forest and whatnot? weren't you all set to go, then couldn't sell your house, so you were going to put off school for a year? or was that someone else and im retarded?

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kalvano
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Re: The Gunner Thread

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:03 pm

traehekat wrote:weren't you all set to go,


Yes.

traehekat wrote:then couldn't sell your house,


Yes.

traehekat wrote:so you were going to put off school for a year?


Nope. I was accepted at Wake and SMU (local school) with about equal money. SMU was always my back-up in case Wake didn't work out.

traehekat wrote:or was that someone else


Possibly.

traehekat wrote:and im retarded?


Possibly.




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