Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

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03121202698008
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:57 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Thanks for the link I've been meaning to read on this BLANKET DECISION ON EVERYBODY Psystar.

And you'd be correct in saying that I've been grossly misinformed if Psystar's method was the only method. You're trying to match the decisions from a half-baked company which couldn't compile a good defense to the entire Hackintosh community.

There's PC-EFI, Boot 123, etc. which require no modification to the OS; hence it runs "vanilla".

Try again.


Alright dude,
This is the last time I'm going to explain this to you because your don't seem to be grasping it. On boot, every boot, OSX retrieves a custom generated decryption key stored in the bios. Without this EFI, the bootloader won't boot. If it does boot, the Mac kernel has a module that periodically authenticates with the EFI. The only way to circumvent this is to boot through a custom bootloader which doesn't check the initial EFI and then intercept subsequent EFI calls and reply as if it was the bios. Psystars implementation also modified the kernel extension to allow the OSX to run on a wider range of hardware where the bios would fight with a fake EFI call. (EFI is also used so when you re-install with Dell restore CD for instance, you don't get prompted for a CD key. Some of these implementations would make OSX's check fail.)

ANY means to circumvent this copy protection software violates the DMCA and/or copyright law. Whether Apple's code has been modified (which most of them do use Apple code released previously but for a purpose for which it was prohibited) or replaced with after-market code (which the federal judge ruled was a violation of copyright law) Apple could sue if they chose. The bootloader is part of OSX.

The judge's ruling, if you bothered to read it, is broad enough that it would encompass any current means of booting OSX. This happened, because Psystar was actually performing ALL of the current means of bypassing the OS. It was replacing kernel extensions, using an aftermarket bootloader, and emulating EFI calls. All of which were specifically found to be a violation. Further, the judge cited cases in his decision such as Grokster that encompass any conspiracy or intent to assist others commit copyright violations. So, even if they aren't distributing Apple code, them helping others violate Apple's copyright is a violation. (Remember, that since Apple's terms of service prohibit non-Apple hardware any installs on non-Apple hardware are copyright violations...this is also addressed in this ruling.)

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beachbum
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby beachbum » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:07 pm

hmm I liked this thread more when it was just a series of vicious personal attacks.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:07 pm

beachbum wrote:hmm I liked this thread more when it was just a series of vicious personal attacks.


:lol:

You know, Apple vs PC seems to get more heated than the racism/URM threads on here...lol.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:12 pm

blowhard wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Thanks for the link I've been meaning to read on this BLANKET DECISION ON EVERYBODY Psystar.

And you'd be correct in saying that I've been grossly misinformed if Psystar's method was the only method. You're trying to match the decisions from a half-baked company which couldn't compile a good defense to the entire Hackintosh community.

There's PC-EFI, Boot 123, etc. which require no modification to the OS; hence it runs "vanilla".

Try again.


Apple could sue if they chose.


Psystar didn't use *all* the technologies. That's just plain false. I do know how EFI works man. No need to explain it here.

But lets say it was the case.. that all these technologies are ILLEGAL and big brother should slap down anybody distributing them... who is Apple going to sue? Some anonymous kid in Russia? China?

IANAL, but it's just rediculous to think Apple can take down international companies they have no domain over. TPB has been doing much worse, for much, much longer... they've been sued to hell and back and have been through more ISPs than zombie bots and they're still not down AND fuck Apple, they have the RIAA and their Movie-counterpart after them!

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:21 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
blowhard wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Thanks for the link I've been meaning to read on this BLANKET DECISION ON EVERYBODY Psystar.

And you'd be correct in saying that I've been grossly misinformed if Psystar's method was the only method. You're trying to match the decisions from a half-baked company which couldn't compile a good defense to the entire Hackintosh community.

There's PC-EFI, Boot 123, etc. which require no modification to the OS; hence it runs "vanilla".

Try again.


Apple could sue if they chose.


Psystar didn't use *all* the technologies. That's just plain false. I do know how EFI works man. No need to explain it here.

But lets say it was the case.. that all these technologies are ILLEGAL and big brother should slap down anybody distributing them... who is Apple going to sue? Some anonymous kid in Russia? China?

IANAL, but it's just rediculous to think Apple can take down international companies they have no domain over. TPB has been doing much worse, for much, much longer... they've been sued to hell and back and have been through more ISPs than zombie bots and they're still not down AND fuck Apple, they have the RIAA and their Movie-counterpart after them!


I agree that there will always be someone and stopping everyone would be impossible. Apple could always just figure a way to identify the EFI hack software and patch it. They have the ability to push automatic security updates if I remember correctly. This would start a cat-and-mouse like jailbreaks but that hasn't stopped them before.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:58 pm

I don't think Apple wants to stop the hackintosh enthusiast community (except for bricking laptop installs, which they feel are a threat to their sales in a way the desktops aren't.) It's building up a following for OS X among very geeky people who will go on to shape various professional markets and could help legitimize Macs as business machines. OSx86 allows them to ignore the midtower/midrange shaped hole in their desktop lineup.

I just don't think they want anyone selling hackintoshs, either. Steve Jobs, IIRC, was against the brief experiment with licensed Mac clones in the PPC and G3 era and killed it immediately upon his return to Apple. (I am one of the few suckers that bought aDaystar Digital workstation.)

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby skoobily doobily » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:04 am

Things I do with my laptop:
1.take notes, mostly on word, but something nifty like onenote might be nice
2. listen to my itunes
3. surf the web
4. . . . nope, that's it

I am both ignorant and unwilling to change it, I feel special when I can get memegenerator to work. I don't want to spend more money than I have to, but I don't want my computer exploding halfway through an exam, or really any other time. Now: recommend a laptop for me.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:44 am

Duralex wrote:I don't think Apple wants to stop the hackintosh enthusiast community (except for bricking laptop installs, which they feel are a threat to their sales in a way the desktops aren't.) It's building up a following for OS X among very geeky people who will go on to shape various professional markets and could help legitimize Macs as business machines. OSx86 allows them to ignore the midtower/midrange shaped hole in their desktop lineup.

I just don't think they want anyone selling hackintoshs, either. Steve Jobs, IIRC, was against the brief experiment with licensed Mac clones in the PPC and G3 era and killed it immediately upon his return to Apple. (I am one of the few suckers that bought aDaystar Digital workstation.)


If this is true, why wouldn't they include more hardware drivers in their kernel? The code is already in BSD...they choose to remove it and only support chipsets that are in Apple branded systems. Apple keeps OSX tied heavily to their hardware to push hardware sales. I dispute that hackintosh's are used by very geeeky people. Everyone I know who has one is only a somewhat knowledgable user who is friends with someone who is a geek who owns actual Apple hardware.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:06 am

Well, I'm not sure they want to actively help by including driver support for hardware they don't use (and isn't similar to what they do.) That would be making it too easy (and might also weaken their legal position? 'Why support hardware you don't use?') I'm just speculating, but I think Apple recognizes that the hackintosh community, as long as it doesn't get too big or start drawing in less tech-savvy people who would otherwise buy a Mac Pro, isn't a huge threat. That is, of course, as long as they continue to refuse to make mid-range machines.Not that a hackintosh can't substitute for a Mac Pro, but I think it's the lack of a less expensive option that isn't a mini or an iMac that really draws people to the project who otherwise aren't hardware/OS geeks/hackers.

As to who you know, well, OK--but that's definitely not the case with the people I know. As I said, they tend to own a Mac laptop--but a hackintosh desktop (as they already have PCs and various bits of hardware lying around.) I'm talking about developers, consultants, etc. I am more than "somewhat knowledgeable." I own Apple hardware, but I own more OS X licenses than I do Apple machines......although I suppose I'd buy a Pro too if I had enough money to burn.

We're kind of derailing, but hopefully this is of interest to some people.

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romothesavior
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:19 am

ITT: Nerds arm wrestle.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:31 am

skoobily doobily wrote:Things I do with my laptop:
1.take notes, mostly on word, but something nifty like onenote might be nice
2. listen to my itunes
3. surf the web
4. . . . nope, that's it

I am both ignorant and unwilling to change it, I feel special when I can get memegenerator to work. I don't want to spend more money than I have to, but I don't want my computer exploding halfway through an exam, or really any other time. Now: recommend a laptop for me.


Honestly? Used thinkpad or macbook c2d. (I'm not replacing my 13" blackbook c2d until next year--maybe not even then. Unless approaching exams make me freak out over the screen size--I'm used to writing essays on desktops.)

Refurbished Apple Store

Lenovo Outlet has refurbs too.

Or, there's eBay--caveat emptor, of course. Evaluate vendors carefully, and if possible buy a system still under a transferable extended warranty. (AppleCare is transferable.)

Otherwise you're kind of choosing between secondary brands, about which there's some dissension here regarding reliability. Most of us are saying avoid Dell, a good number of us are saying avoid HP (although there are supporters of both companies.) Toshiba (which I feel OK about, others don't) and ASUS (which seems to polarize people--love em or hate em) have seen a fair number of mentions. Sony is very strange and in its on world--probably not on your radar 'cause they seem to be charging more for their (very difficult to service) "Sony Style." Acer/Gateway has been on my "DO NOT BUY" list for a while (this company is like the Plague Mary of the computer world--Acer has absorbed Packard Bell, eMachines and Gateway. Even their LCD monitor lineup--which I will buy for clients upon request--annoys me.)

One thing that hasn't had a mention here, and would probably attract some LOLs in LS, is the Panasonic Toughbook. I've never owned one, but I've heard good things. Maybe an attractive option for a klutz, or bike commuter--otherwise you're paying a premium for that Milspec rating.

Once upon a time people really loved Fujitsu notebooks. The LifeBook line is still being made, but I don't know if it's following has survived and I can't speak to the current quality. Note that Fujitsu also makes tablets and convertible notebook/tablets which might be cool.

Full disclosure: the pace of my consulting work has dropped off considerably since 2008, as small business starts (my favored niche) withered and existing clients reined IT spending in before anything else and are still more or less holding their breaths. These days I'm doing mostly network design/support and integration when consulting, very little buying, and even so am mostly working at my other job. So I am not entirely up to date on the latest model of everything.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby burvowski » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:18 am

skoobily doobily wrote:Things I do with my laptop:
1.take notes, mostly on word, but something nifty like onenote might be nice
2. listen to my itunes
3. surf the web
4. . . . nope, that's it

I am both ignorant and unwilling to change it, I feel special when I can get memegenerator to work. I don't want to spend more money than I have to, but I don't want my computer exploding halfway through an exam, or really any other time. Now: recommend a laptop for me.


I can do all of those with my $200 10" netbook that is easy as hell to take around hook up to an external monitor and keyboard/mouse when at home.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:19 am

Would you want to rely on that as your primary machine for LS, though (even with the externals at home?)

I think I'd want at least a 13" w/a decent keyboard. Netbooks are awfully cramped even for note taking and exams. But maybe that's just me. If you can deal with it, they are much lighter to lug around.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:46 pm

Duralex wrote:Would you want to rely on that as your primary machine for LS, though (even with the externals at home?)

I think I'd want at least a 13" w/a decent keyboard. Netbooks are awfully cramped even for note taking and exams. But maybe that's just me. If you can deal with it, they are much lighter to lug around.


This is the conundrum I currently have. I have a 15" MBP that as of now I am planning on using in class. I have a backpack with a well-protected laptop sleeve in it but I'm still leery carrying it. I hate typing on a netbook though and don't really want to shell out a ton of money for a machine for class.

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romothesavior
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:49 pm

Duralex wrote:Would you want to rely on that as your primary machine for LS, though (even with the externals at home?)

I think I'd want at least a 13" w/a decent keyboard. Netbooks are awfully cramped even for note taking and exams. But maybe that's just me. If you can deal with it, they are much lighter to lug around.


What would be the point of a Netbook if not for note-taking? I can hardly think of another situation where it would be useful.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:11 pm

General purpose use: email, websurfing, facebook, AIM.... i.e. what most undergrads use them for, judging by the over-the-shoulder-view.

Maybe you can take notes comfortably on one if you have small hands, but I find them fiddly and annoying for extended use.

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romothesavior
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:15 pm

Duralex wrote:General purpose use: email, websurfing, facebook, AIM.... i.e. what most undergrads use them for, judging by the over-the-shoulder-view.

Maybe you can take notes comfortably on one if you have small hands, but I find them fiddly and annoying for extended use.


Must be a personal preference. I see no point in dropping a few hundred dollars on one if you don't plan to take it to class and take notes.

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bk1
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:26 pm

Duralex wrote:General purpose use: email, websurfing, facebook, AIM.... i.e. what most undergrads use them for, judging by the over-the-shoulder-view.

Maybe you can take notes comfortably on one if you have small hands, but I find them fiddly and annoying for extended use.


Aren't their keyboards 95-100% the size of an average laptop keyboard?

Personally I don't mind taking notes on them, but for taking an exam I would definitely rather have the extra screen space and slightly larger keyboard (my hands get cramped even on an ergo keyboard so any little bit helps).

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beach_terror
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby beach_terror » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:42 pm

Yeah most netbook keyboards are almost the size of a normal laptop keyboard. However, my wpm is like 60 on a netbook as opposed to like 110+ on a normal laptop.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:44 pm

beach_terror wrote:Yeah most netbook keyboards are almost the size of a normal laptop keyboard. However, my wpm is like 60 on a netbook as opposed to like 110+ on a normal laptop.


Yeah, the size of the keys is similar but the lack of a palmrest throws my typing way off.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby AngryAvocado » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:48 pm

It's worth pointing out that Macs tend to hold their value better than PCs. You can make a decent chunk of change back if you keep yours in decent shape and sell it within 3-4 years.

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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby burvowski » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:07 pm

Duralex wrote:Would you want to rely on that as your primary machine for LS, though (even with the externals at home?)

I think I'd want at least a 13" w/a decent keyboard. Netbooks are awfully cramped even for note taking and exams. But maybe that's just me. If you can deal with it, they are much lighter to lug around.


I don't plan on using it in class. In every law class I sat in on, most 1L's were spending the class on Facebook and I tend to do more with my notes if I handwrite them and then flesh them out later in OneNote at the library or at home. I think it'll be fine for exams, but worst case scenario, I could always just bring a USB keyboard to attach to it for the exam. It'll be ugly, but it works for the few times I'd need it.

If I'm at the library, and I don't feel like using my netbook (which is almost a full sized keyboard anyways), then I figure I could just live with a lab computer that I'm sure my library will have set-up. I use dropbox to constantly have my documents folder in sync on the web so I never have to back it up and can access all my files from any computer (if you sign up via this link, we each get an extra 250 megs: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTI5NjgzMDA5 ...I recommend using this service (it's free) no matter what system you end up getting, it's handy as hell and you don't have to worry about backing up your notes, and you can even access your files from your phone if you needed to) and then at home, I have my monitor and all that.

I had a 15" MBP in college and I hated taking it from class to class all day with lots of textbooks. With that said, I'm building a HTPC that will also be connected to a monitor and a TV to function as both an entertainment center and as a full PC. I honestly prefer a PC + small netbook over one decent laptop. The whole setup is significantly cheaper in the end than a $1000 laptop, and I end up getting more utility out of it.
Last edited by burvowski on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:16 pm

That's a solid plan, I'd think. Depending on the lab computers' setup and the network's topology (or with a crossover cable) you may be able to run a portable VNC client on the lab machine and control your netbook from there, turning the lab computer into a graphical terminal. Network admins who know what they're doing might find this annoying--but honestly most academic IT departments I've dealt with are completely lost just trying to keep up with the day-to-day. They freak out over unauthorized wifi APs attached to their physical network, but that's about it.

You also may be able to use a computer on a stick. (i.e. vbox and puppylinux on a USB thumbdrive.)

Re exams: some people have said that external USB mice stop working w/SofTest. I'm not sure about keyboards.

burvowski
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby burvowski » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:20 pm

Word...I love accessing my desktop from class via VNC to have it download movies and shows while I'm on-campus that are ready for when I get home.

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Duralex
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Re: Thinkpad v. Mac for law school

Postby Duralex » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:57 pm

Deluge might be of interest to you. It has a web front end for remote access.

Also I like rsync.net for remote storage/backup. $0.80 per GB per month and they are total hacker ninjas. It's more or less enterprise quality. They offer student discounts, too I think.

Windows access with:

- Our simple, powerful Backup Agent
- Map as a drive letter for simple drag and drop access
- WinSCP, CuteFTP, or any other ftp/sftp/scp application
- The cwRsync version of the powerful rsync backup utility (rsync.exe)

Macintosh access with:

- The powerful rsync tool built into OS X
- Connect in the Finder for simple drag and drop access
- Fugu, Interarchy, Fetch, Transmit, or any other ftp/sftp/scp tool

UNIX access with:

- rsync, scp, sftp, ftp, rdiff-backup, Unison, duplicity
- standard unix commands over SSH
- Use as a local mount point with sshfs


Drag and drop means WebDAV. For WebDAV on XP, use the old version of Novell NetDrive available here. Avoid WebDrive. For Vista/Win7, use the new NetDrive. Multiple WebDAV clients are available for iOS and Android. Probably BB and Symbian, etc too.

Facilities

How do you secure your facilities ?

Our physical facilities are manned by live technicians 24 hours per day. Biometric access controls are employed at our locations, as well as video recording and strict entry/access logs.

How is the filesystem fault tolerant ?

All data is housed on hardware RAID arrays providing _at least_ RAID-6 protection. DO NOT trust your data to anyone running software raid, or anyone using RAID-5 (even if they utilize hot spares, etc.) All power is conditioned and backed by battery banks which are backed by diesel generators. Physical machines are connected to at least two distinct power circuits.

rsync.net performs quarterly audits of power load and equipment failover, and we are quite strict as to what constitutes "passing".

How well connected are your datacenters ?

Our primary US location is connected to a quintuple-homed network. All global locations are at least triple-homed.

rsync.net performs quarterly audits of network throughput and network latency.

What other security measures do you employ ?

We employ network Intrusion Detection Systems as well as IDS on each individual host.

Each users' individual filesystem is in a chroot that isolates it from the rest of the system.

Finally, user filesystems all live on data partitions that are mounted noexec / nosuid / nodev which provides an additional level of safety against sophisticated attacks.

Bad-ass.




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