what to do? Forum

[sillysassafrass]

I am having an after 1L crisis.
I am in my late 20s, I had an alright career pre law school, with a 60K job. I hated law school, but I also had alot of personal things going on. I am currently interning at a prosecutors office, which isn't as exciting as it sounds. I am having thoughts of not going back to law school. The 100K in debt is getting to me. Where I amw orking, prosecutors start at 47K a year, the state lawyers start at 60K a year. My grades are right at median at a lower Tier 1 school. I just dont feel like my job propsects will be good enough after graduation to suffice for my loans. Right now I have been intereviewing for jobs in my previous field that pay about 70K. Granted I may have more earning potential long term with a J.D, but it would have to be alot more long term to make up the 340K in loans and lost wages I am accuring right now. So I'm thinking of getting out before 2L starts. I know I have already spent money, but I only have 37K in loans right now, 17K of which was from UG. So not too bad...

It seems like every current law student or even lawyer I meet lately either 1. Wishes they didn't finish school, 2. Is banking on IBR, 3. doesnt' know what they woudl do without a law degree.

Does anybody else out there have thoughts like mine?

I guess I should throw out I want to have a family before I am 35 as well...

[Cleareyes]

What is pushing you TOWARDS the law?

[ChewbaccaDefense]

If you hate law and think you can re-enter your prior career track without every employer thinking you're a flight risk, that might work for you.

Out of curiosity though, what's wrong with banking on IBR? Seems like a good way to make your loans manageable over the short term immediately after school and, if you're not able to repay the full amount, there's a 10/25 year forgiveness option. Sure, you'll pay taxes on that amount, but even then, I believe the ABSOLUTE max you'll pay is 50% of that.

If I'm missing something, somebody please feel free to fill us all in, but I look at IBR as a way for people going to school for sticker to have a bit more freedom than "biglaw-or-bust".

[TTH]

What is pushing you TOWARDS the law?

This.

It sounds like you don't like the law, and if you're using the 60k number to figure your lost wages, then you're taking on 160k in debt for something you don't like. Plus, you left a job paying 60k and are being offered 70k a year later.

Unless you've got a great answer to the quoted, it seems like getting out is the right decision.

[TommyK]

What is pushing you TOWARDS the law?

This.

It sounds like you don't like the law, and if you're using the 60k number to figure your lost wages, then you're taking on 160k in debt for something you don't like. Plus, you left a job paying 60k and are being offered 70k a year later.

Unless you've got a great answer to the quoted, it seems like getting out is the right decision.

Well, I think it sounds like he doesn't love law school.

OP - you didn't mention anything about your satisfaction with your 1L internship with the DA's office. How do you like that? Do you find it personally rewarding? If so, I say play through the pain at law school and try to pursue the legal profession. If not, find another function of law or return back to civilian law.

[BaronDetroit]

I think your too deep into this to turn back now. Your at a great school, did pretty good with grades and got a summer gig. This just sounds like a typical quitting crisis that some law school students experience. This is evidenced by injecting the fact of having 'personal things' and also that you want a family before 35. The time to not get involved was before your 1st year.

Your doing a lot better than me (you have a way better school and a summer gig) and your not old at all. I am in my early 30's and don't regret going into 80k debt for a minute. But I did not have a 60k job- nowhere close to that.

You could always find a job in your old field and go part time school. Take care of the personal issues and you'll be ok.

[Miniver]

...

[IAFG]

I think your too deep into this to turn back now. Your at a great school, did pretty good with grades and got a summer gig.

lol no, no and no.

[TommyK]

Four times, Baron. Four times.

One more and I probably would've had to kill myself.

What's you're problem? Your probably going to have to see a doctor about you're mental insability

[sumus romani]

If you hate law and think you can re-enter your prior career track without every employer thinking you're a flight risk, that might work for you.

Out of curiosity though, what's wrong with banking on IBR? Seems like a good way to make your loans manageable over the short term immediately after school and, if you're not able to repay the full amount, there's a 10/25 year forgiveness option. Sure, you'll pay taxes on that amount, but even then, I believe the ABSOLUTE max you'll pay is 50% of that.

If I'm missing something, somebody please feel free to fill us all in, but I look at IBR as a way for people going to school for sticker to have a bit more freedom than "biglaw-or-bust".

There are lots of things wrong with banking on IBR. First of all, the OP would have a tough time even finding a job in law with her grades and school. Second, IBR can change! Third, even if IBR doesn't change, you just have to remember how IBR works--it does not forgive debt (until 10 years for the highly qualified students who get the public interest jobs, or 25 years for the rest). Rather, it just pushes it back, with interest, for years and years. This is why LRAP and IBR are so very different. LRAP pays back the loans, but IBR just pushes it back. The total cost of loans on a 25 year IBR is app. triple the cost of the original loan, at least (money borrowed at 8% over 25 years).

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Third, even if IBR doesn't change, you just have to remember how IBR works--it does not forgive debt (until 10 years for the highly qualified students who get the public interest jobs, or 25 years for the rest). Rather, it just pushes it back, with interest, for years and years. This is why LRAP and IBR are so very different. LRAP pays back the loans, but IBR just pushes it back. The total cost of loans on a 25 year IBR is app. triple the cost of the original loan, at least (money borrowed at 8% over 25 years).

Right, but this is the absolute worst case scenario. IBR repayments cap minimum payments at around 10% of monthly income. One would be ridiculous to pay this amount for the life of the 25 year loan. But if somebody looks to work their way up through a branch of the profession that doesn't pay market biglaw right out of school, IBR can make that possible for the first 3 years of one's career while they get their feet underneath them.

It's not perfect, but it IS an option that you don't hear much of through all the doom and gloom these days.

[094320]

..

[BaronDetroit]

I think your too deep into this to turn back now. Your at a great school, did pretty good with grades and got a summer gig.

lol no, no and no.

Chyea. Baron, ever heard of the concept of "sunk costs"?

Yeah, but you must look at the opportunity costs. Certainly, this 'crisis' has to pass over to make a rational decision. You can't look at what you were making in the past- those good paying jobs are more competitive and you can't count on getting a job like that in a short period of time. You may be done with the remaining 2 years of law school before you get a job like that.

It appears she isn't even borrowing that heavily. Only 20k for a year of law school? Thats pretty good compared to how some folks borrow for full tuition, rent, expenses, etc. The 37k is already a sunk cost- can't even put that in the decision tree analysis (to stay or quit). Assuming arguendo she borrows 40k more for 2 more years along with 2 years of lost wages- thats not unreasonable. So your already a third of the way done- you would be best served to finish what you started and reap the abundant opportunities that come from knowledge learned arising out of a legal education.

[Cleareyes]

I can't believe you managed to sucker me into this with pure trolling but

reap the abundant opportunities that come from knowledge learned arising out of a legal education.

http://www.jdunderground.com

[sillysassafrass]

I suppose I should clarify a few things.

1. I have interviews for positions at my old career. If nothing else I could go back to my old job...I have a good reputation at my old career, but was seekng something more.

2. I took out 20K this year because I had money saved up from working for 5 years, I will be taking out about 70K for the next two years. So total debt will be about 100K.

3. Where I go to school has no jobs to work part time and go to school. The jobs I have intereviews for are in another state and no feasible law school option.

4. i'm not paying sticker, I have a scholarship, but I am still debt-adverse to the rest of the amount.

5. Perhaps if I had met any recent law graudates who weren't looking for work or weren't complaining about having no money even 5 years after law school I would have a more optimistic view...

6. I know I won't qualify for a firm job nor do I want to work the crazy firm hours.

I went to law school because I believed alot of things needed changing. However, I am a practical person, I grew up in a family that was always struggliing to pay bills, and its hard to justify a lot of debt for a job that pays equal to pre law school. This year on my campus they had an "altneriave career day" and on the at day they had J.D. graduates who did the same job as i did pre law school. And the school was bragging about their job placement, but those jobs dont' need a J.D.

[Cleareyes]

I suppose I should clarify a few things.

1. I have interviews for positions at my old career. If nothing else I could go back to my old job...I have a good reputation at my old career, but was seekng something more.

2. I took out 20K this year because I had money saved up from working for 5 years, I will be taking out about 70K for the next two years. So total debt will be about 100K.

3. Where I go to school has no jobs to work part time and go to school. The jobs I have intereviews for are in another state and no feasible law school option.

4. i'm not paying sticker, I have a scholarship, but I am still debt-adverse to the rest of the amount.

5. Perhaps if I had met any recent law graudates who weren't looking for work or weren't complaining about having no money even 5 years after law school I would have a more optimistic view...

6. I know I won't qualify for a firm job nor do I want to work the crazy firm hours.

I went to law school because I believed alot of things needed changing. However, I am a practical person, I grew up in a family that was always struggliing to pay bills, and its hard to justify a lot of debt for a job that pays equal to pre law school. This year on my campus they had an "altneriave career day" and on the at day they had J.D. graduates who did the same job as i did pre law school. And the school was bragging about their job placement, but those jobs dont' need a J.D.

You never answered why you SHOULD continue in law school. It doesn't seem like you like the law. Write the year off and go back to your other career. You can probably take a leave of absence from your school and then drop out later or go back if you want. I honestly don't see a reason for you to continue in law school.

[Miniver]

...

[northwood]

you dont like school, you dont like your internship. You are allready interviewing for a job in your old field. I would say that you should at least take a leave of absence from school, and work in your old field. If you know deep down that you dont want to practice law, then why stay.

For what its worth- I continued to stay in school for a field that I knew I had no future in, only because I started it ( It was a master degree program, but I had to take out loans to pay for it). There isnt a day that goes by that i wish I left the program and cut my losses. It cost me not only 20k in debt, but 2 years of school, plus another year to decide what I really wanted to do with my life. You cant really put a dollar amount on that. Are you willing to go back to school, finish, then have to re start 2-3 years down the road ( with the possibility of having to go back to school again???).


Take a few days off from work, adn seriously weigh out the pros/ cons, costs and benefits of both staying in the law field, going back to your old field, and other things that interest you. If you come to the conclusion that law school isnt it, then file for a leave of absence immediately.

Good luck