Law School THEN engineering?

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jparsenal87
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Law School THEN engineering?

Postby jparsenal87 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:03 pm

This is probably a silly question, but I was just curious, not that I'm considering it, but anyway: I know that most IP and patent lawyers come from technical/engineering backgrounds. Have you ever heard of someone from a non-technical background going to law school, coming out to work, eventually returning to school for engineering, and later pursuing something in IP? Or is it pretty mandatory to have a technical background BEFORE LS if you are trying to do IP/patent work?

09042014
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:09 pm

jparsenal87 wrote:This is probably a silly question, but I was just curious, not that I'm considering it, but anyway: I know that most IP and patent lawyers come from technical/engineering backgrounds. Have you ever heard of someone from a non-technical background going to law school, coming out to work, eventually returning to school for engineering, and later pursuing something in IP? Or is it pretty mandatory to have a technical background BEFORE LS if you are trying to do IP/patent work?


Why do you want to do patent law so badly anyway? Do you really have a burning passion for it, or the perceived easier job prospects?

tesoro
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby tesoro » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:13 pm

jparsenal87 wrote:This is probably a silly question, but I was just curious, not that I'm considering it, but anyway: I know that most IP and patent lawyers come from technical/engineering backgrounds. Have you ever heard of someone from a non-technical background going to law school, coming out to work, eventually returning to school for engineering, and later pursuing something in IP? Or is it pretty mandatory to have a technical background BEFORE LS if you are trying to do IP/patent work?


This career path doesn't make sense.

Are you suggesting pursuing a bachelors, then pursuing a JD, and then pursuing another bachelors (in engineering)? Do you have any respect for what education costs, or for as many as 10 years of opportunity cost for lost income? This, literally speaking, sounds like a million dollar mistake.

To answer your question though, yes, you can obtain engineering experience after getting your JD. I'm sure it's less marketable though because career services at an engineering school are geared toward, not shockingly, engineering work, so you'll be on your own after gaining your second bachelor's degree.

edit: to add, if you're totally enamored with IP work and it's your new goal in life for real reasons that will last the next decade, consider getting an accelerated EE degree and then going to law school at night while working, in that order. Your wallet will thank you. You'd be hard pressed to find a legal job that allows you time or energy to pursue an EE degree at night (not even sure if this exists, given the required lab time alone won't fit in an evening schedule...)

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macattaq
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby macattaq » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:34 pm

I imagine that if OP really wants to do this, then he/she could do the necessary math on his/her own and then take a competency test at school, which could let you bypass the math component. That would save you a lot of time and money. Then you just take the necessary classes. Not sure how that might work out, but if you really want it, it's doable. I guess there's nothing wrong with going back for a B.S. after you finish your J.D., it just matters what you want out of life. I guess.

09042014
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:36 pm

macattaq wrote:I imagine that if OP really wants to do this, then he/she could do the necessary math on his/her own and then take a competency test at school, which could let you bypass the math component. That would save you a lot of time and money. Then you just take the necessary classes. Not sure how that might work out, but if you really want it, it's doable. I guess there's nothing wrong with going back for a B.S. after you finish your J.D., it just matters what you want out of life. I guess.


A BS in engineering will take 3 years full time if you are starting from scratch.

Maybe 2 if you overload and due summer school.

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macattaq
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby macattaq » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
macattaq wrote:I imagine that if OP really wants to do this, then he/she could do the necessary math on his/her own and then take a competency test at school, which could let you bypass the math component. That would save you a lot of time and money. Then you just take the necessary classes. Not sure how that might work out, but if you really want it, it's doable. I guess there's nothing wrong with going back for a B.S. after you finish your J.D., it just matters what you want out of life. I guess.


A BS in engineering will take 3 years full time if you are starting from scratch.

Maybe 2 if you overload and due summer school.


That's why I said do the math during free time, and take a competency test in order to bypass it. I'm not familiar with the exact classes to take for EE, but for physics, its about two years of math. That can be done during law school, in OPs free time, if he/she is really determined to make this happen. So, assuming OP can bypass the math classes, that should cut a significant bit of coursework out of the front end. I assumed OP would take class year round, but that may not be possible for the upper level classes?

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Duralex
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby Duralex » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:07 pm

I got curious about this a little while ago. I have no idea if they'd actually prepare you do to any patent work in the field (or pass the patent bar) but there are some ~2 year online/correspondence BS degrees offered for people who already hold a bachelors. Not knowing if any those outfits are legit, I don't want to post links--but Google can find them for you.

d34d9823
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby d34d9823 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:10 pm

macattaq wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
macattaq wrote:I imagine that if OP really wants to do this, then he/she could do the necessary math on his/her own and then take a competency test at school, which could let you bypass the math component. That would save you a lot of time and money. Then you just take the necessary classes. Not sure how that might work out, but if you really want it, it's doable. I guess there's nothing wrong with going back for a B.S. after you finish your J.D., it just matters what you want out of life. I guess.


A BS in engineering will take 3 years full time if you are starting from scratch.

Maybe 2 if you overload and due summer school.


That's why I said do the math during free time, and take a competency test in order to bypass it. I'm not familiar with the exact classes to take for EE, but for physics, its about two years of math. That can be done during law school, in OPs free time, if he/she is really determined to make this happen. So, assuming OP can bypass the math classes, that should cut a significant bit of coursework out of the front end. I assumed OP would take class year round, but that may not be possible for the upper level classes?

Most engineering programs are a 3 year sequence. It has nothing to do with the math, it has to do with there being six consecutive semesters that are each prerequisite for the next.

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merichard87
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby merichard87 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:18 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
macattaq wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
macattaq wrote:I imagine that if OP really wants to do this, then he/she could do the necessary math on his/her own and then take a competency test at school, which could let you bypass the math component. That would save you a lot of time and money. Then you just take the necessary classes. Not sure how that might work out, but if you really want it, it's doable. I guess there's nothing wrong with going back for a B.S. after you finish your J.D., it just matters what you want out of life. I guess.


A BS in engineering will take 3 years full time if you are starting from scratch.

Maybe 2 if you overload and due summer school.


That's why I said do the math during free time, and take a competency test in order to bypass it. I'm not familiar with the exact classes to take for EE, but for physics, its about two years of math. That can be done during law school, in OPs free time, if he/she is really determined to make this happen. So, assuming OP can bypass the math classes, that should cut a significant bit of coursework out of the front end. I assumed OP would take class year round, but that may not be possible for the upper level classes?

Most engineering programs are a 3 year sequence. It has nothing to do with the math, it has to do with there being six consecutive semesters that are each prerequisite for the next.


This.

I'm an engineering student and the biggest issue myself and my classmates have is making sure our sequence of classes is on point. And our advanced classes are not offered in the summer. I would bet that even if you tested out of some math or science pre-reqs it would still take 3 years for you to finish an engineering degree.

Also, I'm not sure how firms would consider someone who went to law school and then went to school for an engineering BS. Could you try to do SA work during the summer to keep the law fresh in your mind? It seems like a lot to do. If you really want patent law I would just push off law school for a few years and do the engineering degree. Hell you might even figure out you don't like engineering and probably won't like patent law.

d34d9823
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby d34d9823 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:28 pm

I think the correct path here if you're set on getting an engineering degree is to get a MS first and then go to law school. I see no point in getting another bachelors, that just looks weird and kind of bad. Also, if you want law, you need to do law school last so you can do OCI. Trying to go from engineering school into a law firm is nuts.

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macattaq
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby macattaq » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:39 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
macattaq wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
macattaq wrote:I imagine that if OP really wants to do this, then he/she could do the necessary math on his/her own and then take a competency test at school, which could let you bypass the math component. That would save you a lot of time and money. Then you just take the necessary classes. Not sure how that might work out, but if you really want it, it's doable. I guess there's nothing wrong with going back for a B.S. after you finish your J.D., it just matters what you want out of life. I guess.


A BS in engineering will take 3 years full time if you are starting from scratch.

Maybe 2 if you overload and due summer school.


That's why I said do the math during free time, and take a competency test in order to bypass it. I'm not familiar with the exact classes to take for EE, but for physics, its about two years of math. That can be done during law school, in OPs free time, if he/she is really determined to make this happen. So, assuming OP can bypass the math classes, that should cut a significant bit of coursework out of the front end. I assumed OP would take class year round, but that may not be possible for the upper level classes?

Most engineering programs are a 3 year sequence. It has nothing to do with the math, it has to do with there being six consecutive semesters that are each prerequisite for the next.


Ahh, gotcha. That makes more sense.

yellowjacket2012
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby yellowjacket2012 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:45 pm

This is actually an interesting subject. A lot of people I know who are in law school after engineering did not choose engineering with the intent to go to law school as an 18 year old freshman.

I knew a few guys at Georgia Tech who had completed their law degrees, and were older (late 20's/early 30's), and were in class with me, then a 20 year old, doing EE.

It is an interesting thing, you don't "forget the law" if you spend 2-3 years doing EE work. I just don't know how you navigate the job market after you get your degree, I guess if the market's THAT HOT, you should be fine no matter what.

Black-Blue
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:21 am

Why go for Bachelors after LS? Go for Masters. Even if you're a history major, if you've taken some classes in science, some masters programs will take you.

09042014
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:22 am

Black-Blue wrote:Why go for Bachelors after LS? Go for Masters. Even if you're a history major, if you've taken some classes in science, some masters programs will take you.


Really? How? It would take two years just to learn the basics. Are these programs reputable?

d34d9823
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby d34d9823 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:26 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:Why go for Bachelors after LS? Go for Masters. Even if you're a history major, if you've taken some classes in science, some masters programs will take you.


Really? How? It would take two years just to learn the basics. Are these programs reputable?

I don't think it's unusual to take a masters outside of your field. There's generally a list of required core classes (the 3000 and 4000 level sequence classes) which you have to have but can take as part of your masters program. I think it usually only adds about a year to your masters.

09042014
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:27 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:Why go for Bachelors after LS? Go for Masters. Even if you're a history major, if you've taken some classes in science, some masters programs will take you.


Really? How? It would take two years just to learn the basics. Are these programs reputable?

I don't think it's unusual to take a masters outside of your field. There's generally a list of required core classes (the 3000 and 4000 level sequence classes) which you have to have but can take as part of your masters program. I think it usually only adds about a year to your masters.


But this person likely doesn't even know calculus or physics.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:28 am

Great idea dood.

People take master's out of major when your major is like psychology and your master's is like some other libart/socsci bullshit. A master's in engineering is usually just a bunch of hard ass courses that build on previous ones, there is no perspective you would have divined from being some other major, nor will you have the necessary skills.

d34d9823
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby d34d9823 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:44 am

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Last edited by d34d9823 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Black-Blue
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:46 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:Why go for Bachelors after LS? Go for Masters. Even if you're a history major, if you've taken some classes in science, some masters programs will take you.


Really? How? It would take two years just to learn the basics. Are these programs reputable?

Fields intermingling is common among science/engineering fields. For example physics -> engineering, engineering -> science, math -> engineering, etc.

As for non-technical -> engineering, I've never met a person who've done this, but I don't see why it's not possible. On paper, I think I've seen this type of move occasionally, but can't recall specifics.

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stratocophic
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:53 am

MC Southstar wrote:Great idea dood.

People take master's out of major when your major is like psychology and your master's is like some other libart/socsci bullshit. A master's in engineering is usually just a bunch of hard ass courses that build on previous ones, there is no perspective you would have divined from being some other major, nor will you have the necessary skills.
I took classes with grad students during my senior year... best of luck to anyone just trying to jump into that type of thing. I'm an ME (not even as "hard" as EE) and I can't imagine trying to go into a course like Gas Dynamics without having taken fluid mechanics, maybe dynamics, several semesters of calc/physics, and a thermo or two. Going into upper-level EE courses without knowing basics like how to find a Thevenin resistance or what nodal analysis even is? No Circuits 1 or 2, no signals classes, no upper-level maths? Also, teaching yourself math from DiffEq on up? Maybe calc would be fine but... uhhhh best of luck, bro :?

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PSLaplace
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby PSLaplace » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:52 pm

The only people I know pursuing an MSEE without a BSEE/CmpE studied another engineering discipline (BME) or physics. And both have noted that they've had to put in extra effort in certain classes just to get caught up with the rest of the class.

Moreover, a master's in engineering, by itself, does not qualify you to sit for the patent bar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USPTO_regi ... requisites

Black-Blue
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Re: Law School THEN engineering?

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:35 pm

The patent bar prerequisites are very easy to get by (so it's not a real problem by any means). Grad degrees don't allow you to take the pat bar, per se, but once you have the grad degree, you can easily qualify by taking a few classes at a community college to fill in whatever gap is left in the requirements (which there won't be many).




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