Babies.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Babies.

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:22 pm

IAFG wrote:http://thecareerist.typepad.com/thecareerist/2010/06/work-life-reality-.html


About a year ago, Kim became curious if the other women in her law school class had also seen their plans derailed. So she took a poll of the 226 women in her class. After a lot of prodding, a surprising 90 percent responded:

According to my survey, the majority of the women of the class of 1993 of Harvard Law School have left the fast track. Thirty percent of the respondents have mommy-track jobs, with 21 percent working part-time and 9 percent working full-time with special arrangements like job-sharing and working nonconventional hours. Another 30 percent of the respondents stay at home, most having "off-ramped" with the expectation of going back to work when their children are older.

That 60 percent of these women have dropped out of the fast track is astonishing, especially since they graduated at a time when women's enrollment in law schools was at an all-time high. According to Catalyst, women represented 50.4 percent of law students in 1993.


Wow. Glad my gf is going into another field.

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:27 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
Wow. Glad my gf is going into another field.

wait, why?

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Babies.

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:32 pm

IAFG wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Wow. Glad my gf is going into another field.

wait, why?

She doesn't have to make such a difficult decision or worry about sacrificing her goals, and we don't have to wait until our 30's to have children.

http://www.musckids.com/health_library/ ... over30.htm

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:33 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Wow. Glad my gf is going into another field.

wait, why?

She doesn't have to make such a difficult decision or worry about sacrificing her goals, and we don't have to wait until our 30's to have children.

http://www.musckids.com/health_library/ ... over30.htm

you're assuming those women found the decision difficult or were sacrificing goals. what they have is my goal.

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dominkay
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Re: Babies.

Postby dominkay » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:35 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Wow. Glad my gf is going into another field.

wait, why?

She doesn't have to make such a difficult decision or worry about sacrificing her goals, and we don't have to wait until our 30's to have children.

http://www.musckids.com/health_library/ ... over30.htm


This thread is depressing. I know I said "give it to me straight," but I actually wanted you to blow sunshine up my ass.

acrossthelake
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Re: Babies.

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:39 pm

dominkay wrote:
This thread is depressing. I know I said "give it to me straight," but I actually wanted you to blow sunshine up my ass.


+1 :lol:

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Babies.

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:40 pm

IAFG wrote:you're assuming those women found the decision difficult or were sacrificing goals.

I think it's safe to say that leaving your field of choice because it isn't family-friendly is a sacrifice.
IAFG wrote:what they have is my goal.

So... you want to either (a) delay having children and put them at a much greater risk of birth defects or (b) leave the job for which you busted your ass in LS for one that allows you the time to be a parent?

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:41 pm

dominkay wrote:This thread is depressing. I know I said "give it to me straight," but I actually wanted you to blow sunshine up my ass.

...ITE might take a fast-track career off the table for you, in which case the decision won't be particularly difficult at all?

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:42 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
IAFG wrote:you're assuming those women found the decision difficult or were sacrificing goals.

I think it's safe to say that leaving your field of choice because it isn't family-friendly is a sacrifice.
IAFG wrote:what they have is my goal.

So... you want to either (a) delay having children and put them at a much greater risk of birth defects or (b) leave the job for which you busted your ass in LS for one that allows you the time to be a parent?

(b)

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macattaq
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Re: Babies.

Postby macattaq » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:44 pm

My thoughts:

Women better pull a Lysistrata, and demand regulations that allow people to have children and not be punished for it.

EDIT: While you're at it, get that equal pay (don't forget us minorities while you're at it).
Last edited by macattaq on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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yinz
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Re: Babies.

Postby yinz » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:44 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:So... you want to either (a) delay having children and put them at a much greater risk of birth defects or (b) leave the job for which you busted your ass in LS for one that allows you the time to be a parent?


Why not go the way of Ms. Sotomayor and Ms. Kagan and have the law be your child and your child the law?

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Babies.

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:46 pm

IAFG wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
IAFG wrote:you're assuming those women found the decision difficult or were sacrificing goals.

I think it's safe to say that leaving your field of choice because it isn't family-friendly is a sacrifice.
IAFG wrote:what they have is my goal.

So... you want to either (a) delay having children and put them at a much greater risk of birth defects or (b) leave the job for which you busted your ass in LS for one that allows you the time to be a parent?

(b)

I guess it's good that you don't see that as a sacrifice, but in reality it is. Perhaps the negative connotation of "sacrifice" is driving your disagreement. For many, the choice would be extremely difficult, hence this thread.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Babies.

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:47 pm

macattaq wrote:My thoughts:

Women better pull a Lysistrata, and demand regulations that allow people to have children and not be punished for it.

EDIT: While you're at it, get that equal pay (don't forget us minorities while you're at it).


Working on that. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/politics/30ledbetter-web.html

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:48 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
IAFG wrote:(b)

I guess it's good that you don't see that as a sacrifice, but in reality it is. Perhaps the negative connotation of "sacrifice" is driving your disagreement. For many, the choice would be extremely difficult, hence this thread.

i can see that, but it just seems like an unhelpful and unhealthy way to look at it. so i won't make partner if i end up having kids... that's okay. you can't have everything. "mommy track" jobs are still rewarding in their own way. this doesn't have to be the tragedy some rabble-rousers want to make it out to be.

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Canarsie
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Re: Babies.

Postby Canarsie » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:10 pm

If it makes some of you feel better, i was born when my mom was 36 and my sister when my mom was 37. Unusual for the time but she's not the only one. It's possible if you want it to be.

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:11 pm

ashnicole wrote:If it makes some of you feel better, i was born when my mom was 36 and my sister when my mom was 37. Unusual for the time but she's not the only one. It's possible if you want it to be.

what? no. my mom tried again around that age. complete failure. wanting it to be isn't enough.

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Paichka
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Re: Babies.

Postby Paichka » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:12 pm

I have a daughter. She was 4 months old when I started law school. My husband is deployed, so I'm essentially a single mom until he gets back. I go to school near my parents, and they've helped out a ton. It would've been more difficult without a support system, but I could have made it work.

If you have a support system (IE, a partner who can share baby duties) there is no reason why you can't have kids in law school. I'm actually planning to get knocked up for the second time in October, which would mean I'd be due over the summer. A few weeks off with the baby, and then I still have 6-8 weeks for my summer internship.

Is it hard? Yeah. However, most things worth doing ARE. It's doable, though, and that's the important thing.

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jayn3
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Re: Babies.

Postby jayn3 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:25 pm

okay maybe this is a really dumb question but are there any law jobs that aren't so demanding that having kids is impossible? obviously biglaw isn't the place to have kids, but don't a lot of people do a few years in large firms and then find their careers elsewhere?

Miniver
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Re: Babies.

Postby Miniver » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:44 pm

jayn3 wrote:okay maybe this is a really dumb question but are there any law jobs that aren't so demanding that having kids is impossible? obviously biglaw isn't the place to have kids, but don't a lot of people do a few years in large firms and then find their careers elsewhere?

Might want to ask actual attorneys who've lived through this. I don't see how anyone here can give an informed opinion, unless they've got some reports and surveys with some statistically significant numbers backing up the responses.

The best I can say is that my Wills & Trusts professor (whose prior practice consisted of just doing wills and trusts) said some attorneys tended to smugly look down on his line of work as not being that of a "real" attorney. Maybe other attorneys think it's easy work? Could be a good place to be if you can do it right, which could be a big if. But, again, what law student can really know?

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Canarsie
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Re: Babies.

Postby Canarsie » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:51 pm

IAFG wrote:
ashnicole wrote:If it makes some of you feel better, i was born when my mom was 36 and my sister when my mom was 37. Unusual for the time but she's not the only one. It's possible if you want it to be.

what? no. my mom tried again around that age. complete failure. wanting it to be isn't enough.


sorry to hear that. i didn't mean it's 100% guaranteed, just like there are infertile 20 year olds. i just meant it's possible to have children at that age if you are willing. my mom was "an old maid" when she got pregnant at 35 (her words not mine). but she still wanted it and gave up her formerly care-free life of traveling and odd hours. it's a little more normal nowadays. and my mother actually wanted to have children ten years earlier and wasn't able... they tried for ten years (various treatments and then stopped with them completely) and then i was conceived. it's completely unpredictable sometimes.

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jmhendri
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Re: Babies.

Postby jmhendri » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:53 pm

dominkay wrote:When are lady lawyers supposed to have babies?


If you're a female attorney at my firm, right after you get hired and then every 2 years for the next 10 years.

nickwar
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Re: Babies.

Postby nickwar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:03 pm

Why on earth would you want a child? The world's not interested in more children.

Skip it and buy a nice car.

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IAFG
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Re: Babies.

Postby IAFG » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:06 pm

ashnicole wrote:
IAFG wrote:
ashnicole wrote:If it makes some of you feel better, i was born when my mom was 36 and my sister when my mom was 37. Unusual for the time but she's not the only one. It's possible if you want it to be.

what? no. my mom tried again around that age. complete failure. wanting it to be isn't enough.


sorry to hear that. i didn't mean it's 100% guaranteed, just like there are infertile 20 year olds. i just meant it's possible to have children at that age if you are willing. my mom was "an old maid" when she got pregnant at 35 (her words not mine). but she still wanted it and gave up her formerly care-free life of traveling and odd hours. it's a little more normal nowadays. and my mother actually wanted to have children ten years earlier and wasn't able... they tried for ten years (various treatments and then stopped with them completely) and then i was conceived. it's completely unpredictable sometimes.

I am not saying it's impossible but the deck is stacked against you. It doesn't seem like something to bet on, assuming having your own children is a priority.

acrossthelake
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Re: Babies.

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:44 pm

The obvious solution is to give up and move to and restart in Sweden where men typically shape child-bearing duties with women. :lol: If a US law degree were portable, I'd do that. Alas!

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Babies.

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:45 pm

dominkay wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:I'm hoping after I get my feet wet (for, let's say, 3 or 4 years), I will aim for #1.

Hoping to have at least 2, if not 3 or 4, kids, so with graduating at 28, 3-4 years puts me at 31-32. That gives me 8ish years to 40, when I better close up the baby shop.

Long story short: The man and I better start humping like rabbits on a damn timeline HAHA.

EDIT: I just realized how absolutely insane having 3-4 kids sounds now...my life for the next 15 or so years is going to be quite interesting.


My understanding is that female fertility begins to decline in your late 20's, and plummets at 32. Good luck?


My sisters both had children in their thirties. One sister is 38 and has children that are 8 and 5, and the other will be 41 in August, and her son is 4 and daughter will be 2 next month. My mom had my sisters when she was in her early 20's, and me when she was 37. To the person who said that birth defects go up, that may be a theory, but all 4 nieces and nephews are quite smart. The 4 year old reads at a 3rd grade level...we're convinced he's going to cure cancer or something, the kid's a genius. It's sort of creepy how smart he is, actually.

I've had to actively try NOT to get pregnant...apparently we are a fertile bunch hahaha.

Oh, and on the job or kids note, my hubby to be is in outside sales, so he works from home most days anyway. He hopes to be the stay at home dad some days, and we'd have a nanny when he must be out on client calls.




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