Buy E&Es now?

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doyleoil
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby doyleoil » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:10 am

i used two supplements this year.*

*i just wanted to contribute to a gunner thread, i'm not sure why.

acdisagod
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby acdisagod » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:12 am

thesealocust wrote:
APHill wrote:Dressler's criminal law is hell of a book, 0L here almost half way through it.

It really depends on the person in my view. I dont know if you guys read Arrow's experience but reading E&E's worked very well for him and he anecdotally thinks majority of top 10% of the class have read E&E's during the summer.

In the end law school exams will test your knowledge and ability to apply the black letter of the law. Having to review the black letter during the semester instead of seeing it for the first time will greatly reinforce your knowledge and will give you a leg up on writing the exam quickly.

Certainly, in order to do well you must also be able to analyze situations and write the exams well. But going over material twice is in my opinion a lot better than going over it just once.

But then again I have the memory of a fish. If your memory is not that good reading material 4 months in advance might be useless.


Saw a couple of mistakes in your post so I took the liberty of fixing them for you.


I would cross out everything except I would leave in the first line. Even if 0L prep isn't all that helpful, Dressler's book is interesting. 0L's shouldn't go out of their way to read it but if you got a long commute it makes for somewhat interesting reading as (at least the first 200 pages) are full of policy analysis as opposed to straight black letter law.

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:13 am

Of course each professor will have her own teaching style and reqs, but I think most people should be able to adapt more or less objective info from hornbooks into what the professor is asking of you. This way the hornbooks do not necessarily "damage" a 0L before the school year begins.

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:16 am

acdisagod wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
APHill wrote:Dressler's criminal law is hell of a book, 0L here almost half way through it.

It really depends on the person in my view. I dont know if you guys read Arrow's experience but reading E&E's worked very well for him and he anecdotally thinks majority of top 10% of the class have read E&E's during the summer.

In the end law school exams will test your knowledge and ability to apply the black letter of the law. Having to review the black letter during the semester instead of seeing it for the first time will greatly reinforce your knowledge and will give you a leg up on writing the exam quickly.

Certainly, in order to do well you must also be able to analyze situations and write the exams well. But going over material twice is in my opinion a lot better than going over it just once.

But then again I have the memory of a fish. If your memory is not that good reading material 4 months in advance might be useless.


Saw a couple of mistakes in your post so I took the liberty of fixing them for you.


I would cross out everything except I would leave in the first line. Even if 0L prep isn't all that helpful, Dressler's book is interesting. 0L's shouldn't go out of their way to read it but if you got a long commute it makes for somewhat interesting reading as (at least the first 200 pages) are full of policy analysis as opposed to straight black letter law.



So you dont belive that I have a good memory? Well suit yourself ***hole.

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thesealocust
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:27 am

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

katjust
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby katjust » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:33 am

I used the Contract E&E a lot...of course our class used his casebook...and he was a professor at our school...and it was recommended by the professor....and our professor co-wrote the casebook with the author of the E&E.


In all seriousness though, I don't see reading the E&E's beforehand as a necessarily bad idea. Just make sure to emphasize what the professor says the most.

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romothesavior
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:18 pm

thesealocust wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So everyone says the E&Es are usually the best. Should I buy them now or wait until I see how my professors are? Most people on here say they use them regardless of the professor, I figured I could secure them now.


Nobody says the E&Es are usually the best. You should not buy them now until you know how your professors are. Most people do not say they use them regardless of the professor.

HTH.


How will you know which supplemental materials to buy? Will the prof tell you, or is there some sign we should be on the lookout for?


Sometimes a prof will tell you. Sometimes that is reliable info, sometimes it is not. Some books have sterling reputations (Glannon torts/civ pro and Chemerinsky Con Law). If you've spent a few weeks with a prof (and you won't need or get much use from supplements until that point anyway) you can skim a topic section from a hornbook in a library or bookstore and get a good sense for "wow, this coverage / angle is nearly identical to my class!" or "Wow, this guy talks about 10 cases we never mentioned and leaves out 10 that we did!". That info will often filter down through upper classmen in the form of advice such as "Prof X's class is basically taught from hornbook Y". That stuff is much more useful than the general info posted here.

Example: Chemerinsky is probably the most widely recommended supplement. Everyone in my section agreed it wasn't very helpful for our con law professor's class.

For the record, that advice is actually a suitable proxy for "why reading supplements as a 0L is unlikely to be very useful". Profs cover things in very different ways... you'll read a lot of material you won't cover in class, much of which has a different take on things than you'll cover in class. Even if you read 4 civ pro treatises before starting civ pro, it just won't revolutionize your capacity to ingest it. Nothing is so complicated as to require extensive priming, and law school exams aren't contests of memorization or regurgitation anyway. There's plenty of time during the semester, and your prof is the most important piece of the studying puzzle.


Very useful post, thanks.

And I just ate a Chipotle burrito and I could go for a smoke right now.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:31 pm

Part of me wishes the 1-3L's wouldn't come down so hard on the OL's gunning through this material. Let them fuck themselves over I say!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Speaking of smoke, I think I will. Hell, I might even have Chipoltle for lunch as well. The world is my oyster dammit!!

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:53 pm

katjust wrote:I used the Contract E&E a lot...of course our class used his casebook...and he was a professor at our school...and it was recommended by the professor....and our professor co-wrote the casebook with the author of the E&E.


In all seriousness though, I don't see reading the E&E's beforehand as a necessarily bad idea. Just make sure to emphasize what the professor says the most.


Exactly, reading supplements may be useful. Getting into the brain of the professor is certainly the best way to get a high grade, but being familair with definitions may make your 1L a lot more straightforward and less stressful.

There are some truths that will help you during your first year. For example, in most jurisdictions murder is an intentional killing of another human being with malice aforethought. If your professor interprets or puts a different spin on any elements of the offense all you have to do is to remember these spins/interpretations.

Not sure about the statement that law schools exams are not regurgitation. You want to write an exam in a way that the professor would have written herself to get a good grade . Therefore, feeding backwhat the professor wants is an important part of doing well.

All of this may be false but I guess we can regroup in one year and compare our class ranks........................

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thesealocust
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:01 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:08 pm

Why am I doing this?

I am a firm believer in luck. The harder I work the luckier I get.

I do not think I am better than 1L-3Ls, but, for instance, you do not need to be an expert milk farmer to determine if your milk has gone bad, you know?

Miniver
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby Miniver » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:09 pm

...
Last edited by Miniver on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

solidsnake
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby solidsnake » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:15 pm

APHill wrote:All of this may be false but I guess we can regroup in one year and compare our class ranks........................


:shock: Is this an 0L calling a 1L out (and sealocust of all people) ? This might be a TLS first, iirc.

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romothesavior
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:16 pm

APHill wrote:Why am I doing this?

I am a firm believer in luck. The harder I work the luckier I get.

I do not think I am better than 1L-3Ls, but, for instance, you do not need to be an expert milk farmer to determine if your milk has gone bad, you know?


This analogy is gold.

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:17 pm

Miniver wrote:What the hell am I reading?


allegories

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:32 pm

thesealocust wrote:
APHill wrote:
katjust wrote:I used the Contract E&E a lot...of course our class used his casebook...and he was a professor at our school...and it was recommended by the professor....and our professor co-wrote the casebook with the author of the E&E.


In all seriousness though, I don't see reading the E&E's beforehand as a necessarily bad idea. Just make sure to emphasize what the professor says the most.


Exactly, reading supplements may be useful. Getting into the brain of the professor is certainly the best way to get a high grade, but being familair with definitions may make your 1L a lot more straightforward and less stressful.

There are some truths that will help you during your first year. For example, in most jurisdictions murder is an intentional killing of another human being with malice aforethought. If your professor interprets or puts a different spin on any elements of the offense all you have to do is to remember these spins/interpretations.

Not sure about the statement that law schools exams are not regurgitation. You want to write an exam in a way that the professor would have written herself to get a good grade . Therefore, feeding backwhat the professor wants is an important part of doing well.

All of this may be false but I guess we can regroup in one year and compare our class ranks........................


Why are you doing this? You haven't set foot in law school, yet you have criminal law, learning your professor's style, and how to take law school exams. Definitely much better than the 1Ls in this thread who disagree with you.

I just... this website. I'm very close to being done :(


Let it go... just let it go. You need to stay for us who believe in you!!!!!

Image

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romothesavior
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:34 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Why are you doing this? You haven't set foot in law school, yet you have criminal law, learning your professor's style, and how to take law school exams. Definitely much better than the 1Ls in this thread who disagree with you.

I just... this website. I'm very close to being done :(


You're gonna let some snot-nosed 0L bring you down? Really? How are you gonna react when a partner tells you your work sucks?

Don't leave us.

LoyolaLaw2012
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby LoyolaLaw2012 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Do not buy E&Es until you have talked to your professors. There is nothing wrong with emailing your professor to ask what he/she recommends. I used E&Es for each class the first semester and did well. I did not use any supplements the second semester and did equally well. It all depends on the professor's teaching style.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:47 pm

Read, read, read! Read every case supplement, hornbook, E&E, 1L casebooks, SCOTUS decision, 9th Circuit court decisions, helpful lawbook you can get your hands on. Take notes on EVERYTHING. Make a master-outline. MEMORIZE IT!!! You need to be able to point out key differences to your professors between their way and the RIGHT way! Do not waste ANY MORE TIME HERE!!!! No time to waste! GO GO GO!!!!!!!

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:21 pm

Lol no reason to go crazy, but I think a couple of hours a day of reading will not hurt.

I would stick to one, max 2 supplements per class.

I am also a believer, and Arrow is my prophet. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77628

tomwelling
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby tomwelling » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:23 pm

APHill wrote:There are some truths that will help you during your first year. For example, in most jurisdictions murder is an intentional killing of another human being with malice aforethought. If your professor interprets or puts a different spin on any elements of the offense all you have to do is to remember these spins/interpretations.

Not sure about the statement that law schools exams are not regurgitation. You want to write an exam in a way that the professor would have written herself to get a good grade . Therefore, feeding backwhat the professor wants is an important part of doing well.

All of this may be false but I guess we can regroup in one year and compare our class ranks........................


Don't take this personally, but you really don't know what you are talking about.

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APHill
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby APHill » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:25 pm

tomwelling wrote:
APHill wrote:There are some truths that will help you during your first year. For example, in most jurisdictions murder is an intentional killing of another human being with malice aforethought. If your professor interprets or puts a different spin on any elements of the offense all you have to do is to remember these spins/interpretations.

Not sure about the statement that law schools exams are not regurgitation. You want to write an exam in a way that the professor would have written herself to get a good grade . Therefore, feeding backwhat the professor wants is an important part of doing well.

All of this may be false but I guess we can regroup in one year and compare our class ranks........................


Don't take this personally, but you really don't know what you are talking about.


That is an everpresent possibility. But the last sentence of my post stands.

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jcd178
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby jcd178 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:34 pm

APHill wrote:Lol no reason to go crazy, but I think a couple of hours a day of reading will not hurt.


Dammit, why won't meme generator work!?

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blurbz
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby blurbz » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:45 pm

jcd178 wrote:
APHill wrote:Lol no reason to go crazy, but I think a couple of hours a day of reading will not hurt.


Dammit, why won't meme generator work!?



I think what you're looking for is this:

--ImageRemoved--

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jcd178
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Re: Buy E&Es now?

Postby jcd178 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:54 pm

blurbz wrote:
jcd178 wrote:
APHill wrote:Lol no reason to go crazy, but I think a couple of hours a day of reading will not hurt.


Dammit, why won't meme generator work!?



I think what you're looking for is this:

--ImageRemoved--


That is precisely what I was looking for. I lol'ed hard.




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