DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

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Kobe_Teeth
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:21 pm

A'nold wrote:OP is flaming. Hth.



Why do you say that?

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:21 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:
Not necessarily the first year...I shouldn't have said "when I graduate"...I'm talking first few years (before we start having a family). As long as the 70k total between the fiance and me rises out of the gate (hoping there is NO WAY I'll be making anywhere near the measly $20k-ish that I am per year on unemp), I'll be a happy camper. I mean, we're making it, but it's very very tight.


Did they give you a scholly? DePaul is really bad with yanking scholarships that are tied to GPAs. The URMs typically get 2.2 GPA scholarships, which are pretty hard to lose, but the majority of scholarships are tied to 3.5 and above, which about 60% of 1Ls lose after first year. And the grade scandal doesn't help either...


Mine's tied to GPA, gotta keep a 3.2. According to the website, and archived class ranks, if I got a 3.2 on the nose, I'd be in the top 30 percent. I figure that I'll hopefully keep it (no guarantee, obviously, but I really don't have a choice, other than to drop out if I lose it).

I've heard about the grade scandal, but haven't actually seen detailed info on it. Link?


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/06/deans-fight-over-grades-at-depaul-college-of-law/

A 3.2 is still tricky that first semester. You will most likely be placed into the section that they cram all the scholarship students. I didn't have a scholly, but that is what happened to me. We had 2 PhDs, several Masters', all the engineers/science majors, and all the high LSAT/GPA folks, too. The first-year curve is bad. You should talk to the people in your section to find out if you managed to luck out. If not, get ready to study your ass off.
That is still pretty tricky to

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:24 pm

miamiman wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:I'm clerking at a small employment law firm right now, but they've already told me they can't hire me as an attorney, and one of the associates let slip that the big boss only brings in clerks to get free Westlaw access.


You're joking right? This is the most fucked up thing I've heard about in a while.


It's not uncommon, though. Westlaw/Lexis is really expensive, and even though it is unethical to exploit the law student's unfettered access to both databases, the small firms do it. $13-15/hour is a small price to pay for legal research that would otherwise cost thousands per year.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:24 pm

Hmmm...lots to think about...

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MrKappus
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby MrKappus » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:26 pm

Ender Wiggins wrote:I'm clerking at a small employment law firm right now, but they've already told me they can't hire me as an attorney, and one of the associates let slip that the big boss only brings in clerks to get free Westlaw access.


You're violating the terms of your agreement w/ Westlaw not to use your summer access at a firm job.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:28 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:Hmmm...lots to think about...


Well, try not to freak out too much. The good news is that the school atmosphere is really great! I have made so many really good friends here that I would never have met otherwise.

The professors are really good too...they all went to Harvard, Yale, NYU, Northwestern, etc.

Just make sure you are well prepared if you get Greenberger for civ pro...he is terrifying the first few weeks!

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:29 pm

Ender Wiggins wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:Hmmm...lots to think about...


Well, try not to freak out too much. The good news is that the school atmosphere is really great! I have made so many really good friends here that I would never have met otherwise.

The professors are really good too...they all went to Harvard, Yale, NYU, Northwestern, etc.

Just make sure you are well prepared if you get Greenberger for civ pro...he is terrifying the first few weeks!


I've heard he's kind of a nutcase...true, I guess?

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:30 pm

MrKappus wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:I'm clerking at a small employment law firm right now, but they've already told me they can't hire me as an attorney, and one of the associates let slip that the big boss only brings in clerks to get free Westlaw access.


You're violating the terms of your agreement w/ Westlaw not to use your summer access at a firm job.


Ya think? What choice do I have if I want to keep my job? I can guarantee that my firm is not the only one that does this.

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romothesavior
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:32 pm

Ender Wiggins wrote:Well, try not to freak out too much. The good news is that the school atmosphere is really great! I have made so many really good friends here that I would never have met otherwise.

The professors are really good too...they all went to Harvard, Yale, NYU, Northwestern, etc.

Just make sure you are well prepared if you get _____ for _____... he is terrifying the first few weeks!



I think you could probably say this about 95% of the schools in the country.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:33 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:Hmmm...lots to think about...


Well, try not to freak out too much. The good news is that the school atmosphere is really great! I have made so many really good friends here that I would never have met otherwise.

The professors are really good too...they all went to Harvard, Yale, NYU, Northwestern, etc.

Just make sure you are well prepared if you get Greenberger for civ pro...he is terrifying the first few weeks!


I've heard he's kind of a nutcase...true, I guess?


Well, he's more bluster than anything else. I was unfortunate enough to be called on the first day of class--and I'm still repressing the memory! He won't give you trouble if you show up having read the cases and rules and can answer thoughtfully. He hates gunners...he called a guy who tried to hijack the class with some tangent a moron to his face right in the middle of class.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:34 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:Well, try not to freak out too much. The good news is that the school atmosphere is really great! I have made so many really good friends here that I would never have met otherwise.

The professors are really good too...they all went to Harvard, Yale, NYU, Northwestern, etc.

Just make sure you are well prepared if you get _____ for _____... he is terrifying the first few weeks!



I think you could probably say this about 95% of the schools in the country.


Good point...that's what law school is. The first year is all about hazing, so if you make it through, you should be okay. I mean, you'll be able to graduate anyway.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:36 pm

Ender Wiggins wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:Hmmm...lots to think about...


Well, try not to freak out too much. The good news is that the school atmosphere is really great! I have made so many really good friends here that I would never have met otherwise.

The professors are really good too...they all went to Harvard, Yale, NYU, Northwestern, etc.

Just make sure you are well prepared if you get Greenberger for civ pro...he is terrifying the first few weeks!


I've heard he's kind of a nutcase...true, I guess?


Well, he's more bluster than anything else. I was unfortunate enough to be called on the first day of class--and I'm still repressing the memory! He won't give you trouble if you show up having read the cases and rules and can answer thoughtfully. He hates gunners...he called a guy who tried to hijack the class with some tangent a moron to his face right in the middle of class.


HA, that's pretty awesome. You gotta love the professors that will actually call out gunners.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:41 pm

I actually do like Greenie, because he forces you to do the work and you learn more. His exam is ridiculous, though...so if you get him, save this thread. He does part multiple-choice/part essay. The exam I had was 26 pages long and made a "THWUMP" sound when it landed. The multiple choice wasn't bad, but the essay was a 3-page long essay that had every possible iteration of the Erie Doctrine that you could imagine. The people that got Cs/Ds were the ones who couldn't finish the exam--so time management is a big thing with this guy.

roofles
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby roofles » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:41 pm

I was offered one of the 15k/year scholarships with a 3.2 gpa requirement as well. When I visited, a current student said that his legal writing section size was 15 students so, given their first year curve, only 1-2 students will receive an A in each section. Since many, if not most, of the incoming class was awarded similar scholarship requirements, it would seem difficult to keep the scholarship. Of three students I asked who received similar scholarships, only one had kept it through their 3L. All of that combined with the heavy-handed gpa tactics as shown on ATL, made me decide not to attend DePaul. All of the current students I met seemed to get along and were much closer than anywhere else I visited FWIW.

bestusernameever
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby bestusernameever » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:41 pm

Good luck to you man. I am sorry to hear that you are having trouble finding a job but wish you all the best.

Dude, the market sucks. That is exactly why I deferred for a year. Especially if you are not at a t14, it seems like you (meaning anyone) is fcked.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:43 pm

Ender Wiggins wrote:I actually do like Greenie, because he forces you to do the work and you learn more. His exam is ridiculous, though...so if you get him, save this thread. He does part multiple-choice/part essay. The exam I had was 26 pages long and made a "THWUMP" sound when it landed. The multiple choice wasn't bad, but the essay was a 3-page long essay that had every possible iteration of the Erie Doctrine that you could imagine. The people that got Cs/Ds were the ones who couldn't finish the exam--so time management is a big thing with this guy.


So, in your opinion, hit up the essay first then? I'm guessing this is where most of the points were at.

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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:45 pm

roofles wrote:I was offered one of the 15k/year scholarships with a 3.2 gpa requirement as well. When I visited, a current student said that his legal writing section size was 15 students so, given their first year curve, only 1-2 students will receive an A in each section. Since many, if not most, of the incoming class was awarded similar scholarship requirements, it would seem difficult to keep the scholarship. Of three students I asked who received similar scholarships, only one had kept it through their 3L. All of that combined with the heavy-handed gpa tactics as shown on ATL, made me decide not to attend DePaul. All of the current students I met seemed to get along and were much closer than anywhere else I visited FWIW.


The legal writing, or LARC as we call it, sections are all small, and it is true that only 2 students can get As per class. They also have different focuses like health law and IP. If you don't have hard science in you UG degree, don't go out for the IP writing section, as it's loaded with engineers and they tend to dominate those classes. Again, if you notice that all the IP folks are in your section, you know you're in the scholly section, and you will have to really put in the time to keep that money.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:46 pm

roofles wrote:I was offered one of the 15k/year scholarships with a 3.2 gpa requirement as well. When I visited, a current student said that his legal writing section size was 15 students so, given their first year curve, only 1-2 students will receive an A in each section. Since many, if not most, of the incoming class was awarded similar scholarship requirements, it would seem difficult to keep the scholarship. Of three students I asked who received similar scholarships, only one had kept it through their 3L. All of that combined with the heavy-handed gpa tactics as shown on ATL, made me decide not to attend DePaul. All of the current students I met seemed to get along and were much closer than anywhere else I visited FWIW.


That curve is the same as the bigger classes, just implemented on a smaller scale. 10-15% of all first year classes will get A's. 20-25% will get B+'s. And so on and so forth (on the website). Using that, I have a 30-40% chance keeping above a 3.2, and of keeping my scholly (figuring I get all B+'s, for example). Odds aren't in my favor necessarily (I mean, not over 50% and all hahaha), but it's not impossible.
Last edited by chicagolaw2013 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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98234872348
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:46 pm

bestusernameever wrote:Especially if you are not at a t14, it seems like you (meaning anyone) is fcked.

Lol @ the bolded.

Not being in the T14 is not a death sentence, even ITE, but it is going to be an uphill battle.

Also, it's not like you're automatically safe if you get into the T14. I have a friend who is a 2L at Duke and many of her classmates struck out at OCI.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Ender Wiggins » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:47 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:I actually do like Greenie, because he forces you to do the work and you learn more. His exam is ridiculous, though...so if you get him, save this thread. He does part multiple-choice/part essay. The exam I had was 26 pages long and made a "THWUMP" sound when it landed. The multiple choice wasn't bad, but the essay was a 3-page long essay that had every possible iteration of the Erie Doctrine that you could imagine. The people that got Cs/Ds were the ones who couldn't finish the exam--so time management is a big thing with this guy.


So, in your opinion, hit up the essay first then? I'm guessing this is where most of the points were at.


That is actually the mistake that the people who didn't finish made. My advice is to whiz through the multiple choice as fast as you can (45 min to an hour max) and take the last couple hours to really nail the essay. Outline it first so you don't forget any of the issues. The highest grades go to the students who can spot and analyze the most issues. Writing ability really has nothing to do with it.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Ender Wiggins wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
Ender Wiggins wrote:I actually do like Greenie, because he forces you to do the work and you learn more. His exam is ridiculous, though...so if you get him, save this thread. He does part multiple-choice/part essay. The exam I had was 26 pages long and made a "THWUMP" sound when it landed. The multiple choice wasn't bad, but the essay was a 3-page long essay that had every possible iteration of the Erie Doctrine that you could imagine. The people that got Cs/Ds were the ones who couldn't finish the exam--so time management is a big thing with this guy.


So, in your opinion, hit up the essay first then? I'm guessing this is where most of the points were at.


That is actually the mistake that the people who didn't finish made. My advice is to whiz through the multiple choice as fast as you can (45 min to an hour max) and take the last couple hours to really nail the essay. Outline it first so you don't forget any of the issues. The highest grades go to the students who can spot and analyze the most issues. Writing ability really has nothing to do with it.


Cool, thanks. I'm definitely bookmarking this. Thanks for your advice! Anything else quirky you can think of about any of your 1L professors/their exams?

stinger35
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby stinger35 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:01 am

Jesus this is depressing.

Time to transfer.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:15 am

stinger35 wrote:Jesus this is depressing.

Time to transfer.


Have you even started?

stinger35
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby stinger35 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:51 am

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
stinger35 wrote:Jesus this is depressing.

Time to transfer.


Have you even started?


Haha, yes. Obviously I was going to try regardless as my apps are going out tomorrow but reading this made me glad that I am giving it my best shot.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:00 am

stinger35 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:
stinger35 wrote:Jesus this is depressing.

Time to transfer.


Have you even started?


Haha, yes. Obviously I was going to try regardless as my apps are going out tomorrow but reading this made me glad that I am giving it my best shot.


Out of curiosity, what do your numbers look like, and where are you applying? Have transferring after 1L in the back of my mind, so trying to figure out what I would need in order to do so. Please PM me if you don't mind giving up that info.




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