Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

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Locke N. Lawded
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Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:47 pm

Bar review shill here...if you're suffering through the bar review right now, ask away!

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Matthies
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Matthies » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:08 pm

Locke N. Lawded wrote:Bar review shill here...if you're suffering through the bar review right now, ask away!


So are you still looking to practice law or is the bar thing what you want to do?

solidsnake
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby solidsnake » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:44 pm

Rising 2L here. Do you recommend taking a wide range of "bar courses" during law school, or should I focus on more theoretical/jurisprudence classes, since I probably won't get exposure to that once I graduate? In other words, will Barbri sufficiently teach me Income Tax, Wills and Trusts, UCC, etc.?

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:55 pm

solidsnake wrote:Rising 2L here. Do you recommend taking a wide range of "bar courses" during law school, or should I focus on more theoretical/jurisprudence classes, since I probably won't get exposure to that once I graduate? In other words, will Barbri sufficiently teach me Income Tax, Wills and Trusts, UCC, etc.?


I do suggest that you take classes in law school for subjects that you are most worried about learning during the compressed bar review period.

I strongly encourage students to take UCC classes such as Secured Transactions, Commercial Paper, and Sales. At least try to take one of these courses as it will make your life easier during the bar prep period. You typically have only one 3-4 hour session for each of these UCC subjects, which is really not enough time to absorb the material.

Depending on where you take the bar, Income Tax is one of those subjects that is so rarely tested that no bar review company actually offers lectures, just outlines. (Some states do throw Tax on there, and in that case, your best bet is to take a course, as bar review will not cover it.)

Wills and Trusts is fairly straightforward and easy to pick up in the bar review period, so if you are torn between UCC and Wills, I say go with the UCC stuff.

Don't feel like you need to top load your 3L year with bar classes...you should focus on classes that you really want to take. But do an honest self-assessment about your strengths and weaknesses to determine whether a bar class is something that you need to take.

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:57 pm

Matthies wrote:
Locke N. Lawded wrote:Bar review shill here...if you're suffering through the bar review right now, ask away!


So are you still looking to practice law or is the bar thing what you want to do?


I always envisioned being a trial attorney, and hopefully it is still in the cards. But I live in a very saturated market, and it's hard for 2009 grads, so I took the most lucrative option available (got those killer loans!).

It's actually fun doing this job, as I get to travel all over the country, meet students from all kinds of law schools, and I make my own schedule most of the time. Obviously, bar review is a busy, stressful time, but there are lots of perks, and it's cool for now.

Miniver
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Miniver » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:02 pm

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Last edited by Miniver on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kochel
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Kochel » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:06 pm

Miniver wrote:
Locke N. Lawded wrote:I strongly encourage students to take UCC classes such as Secured Transactions, Commercial Paper, and Sales. At least try to take one of these courses as it will make your life easier during the bar prep period. You typically have only one 3-4 hour session for each of these UCC subjects, which is really not enough time to absorb the material.

This. I am extremely glad I took Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. What a pain in the ass it would be to only start familiarizing myself with these topics during bar review.


I disagree. I found Secured Transactions to be one of the hardest classes in law school. The marginal benefit to be gained 18 months later during bar exam prep isn't worth the increased risk of a GPA-hurting bad grade. (Unless you're a 3L and have your job offer lined up, in which case GPA is no longer relevant.)

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Matthies
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Matthies » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:34 pm

Locke N. Lawded wrote:
Matthies wrote:
Locke N. Lawded wrote:Bar review shill here...if you're suffering through the bar review right now, ask away!


So are you still looking to practice law or is the bar thing what you want to do?


I always envisioned being a trial attorney, and hopefully it is still in the cards. But I live in a very saturated market, and it's hard for 2009 grads, so I took the most lucrative option available (got those killer loans!).

It's actually fun doing this job, as I get to travel all over the country, meet students from all kinds of law schools, and I make my own schedule most of the time. Obviously, bar review is a busy, stressful time, but there are lots of perks, and it's cool for now.


That's cool. I don't like flying, AT ALL, so I probably would not want the job you have now if you have to fly around laot. I'm also class of 2009, but have been blessed with pretty steady work thanks to contacts. Just wondering about your website though, not sure if that is the tact I would personally take re: future legal employment (at least if your desire is to work for someone else). Seems like, as well as you write, and as active as you post (especially since this is your busy time!) you could use a blog to help you land a position rather than perhaps alienate yourself from some of the "older" lawyers (those who also tend to be the ones hiring new lawyers) who could interpret the whole "law schools scam" movement as whiny entitlement (i.e. these young lawyers don't know that its like to walk up hill both ways in the snow like we did). Just a thought.

As to the take bar classes or not, I can only speak to what I did, and that was not take a single bar class except for those actually required in the core curriculum. I had no idea what wills, trusts, secured trans actions, agency, partnership ect was before barbri. That being said several of my classmates did, and they all made comments like " they didn't cover this or that, or how can you not talk about B or C." For me, being blissfully unaware I only stududied what barbri taught me, so I guess in that way not taking the bar classes kept me from not knowing how much I did not know, or really worrrying about it I guess. I dunno.

Anyway, good luck on the trial lawyer gig OP, I think that is one of the hardest things to do in the legal profession and is a dying art. I've been lucky enough to get to know some great trial lawyers (some with 35+ years experience) and watching a good one do his/her stuff in the courtroom is really a sight to see.

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NewHere
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby NewHere » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:49 pm

Hey Shill,

You're working for BarBri, right? Is there any way we could convince them to put up the lectures online in the morning instead of the afternoon?

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:03 pm

NewHere wrote:Hey Shill,

You're working for BarBri, right? Is there any way we could convince them to put up the lectures online in the morning instead of the afternoon?


The problem is that these lectures all recorded the same day as they are posted, so there is some delay in cleaning them up and getting them online. In the past, there was a lag of several days, so this is a new process and some hiccups can be expected.

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NewHere
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby NewHere » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:07 pm

The problem is that these lectures all recorded the same day as they are posted, so there is some delay in cleaning them up and getting them online. In the past, there was a lag of several days, so this is a new process and some hiccups can be expected.


Nope. The ones we're seeing in the video sessions were recorded 6 or 7 days before.

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:09 pm

NewHere wrote:
The problem is that these lectures all recorded the same day as they are posted, so there is some delay in cleaning them up and getting them online. In the past, there was a lag of several days, so this is a new process and some hiccups can be expected.


Nope. The ones we're seeing in the video sessions were recorded 6 or 7 days before.


That is unacceptable...you should call the Chicago office:
BARBRI of Illinois
1 North Dearborn St, Ste 650
Chicago, IL 60602
Telephone: (312) 894-1689 or 800-777-EXAM (3926)
Fax: (312) 873-1674
Email: il.bar@barbrigroup.com

If that doesn't get you a fast enough response, you should contact the person who enrolled you, either the student representative or the campus representative.

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NewHere
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby NewHere » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:13 pm

They explained to us that they do it to motivate us to come to class in the morning. But that doesn't seem entirely logical. Wouldn't people be more productive if they could access the lectures earlier? I would love to (occasionally) be able to get up early and get the video done with first thing in the morning, instead of having to wait for the BarBri morning class.

Is Chicago their headquarters? (I'm taking the NY course, in NY.)

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:17 pm

NewHere wrote:They explained to us that they do it to motivate us to come to class in the morning. But that doesn't seem entirely logical. Wouldn't people be more productive if they could access the lectures earlier? I would love to (occasionally) be able to get up early and get the video done with first thing in the morning, instead of having to wait for the BarBri morning class.

Is Chicago their headquarters? (I'm taking the NY course, in NY.)


Yes, the headquarters for Barbri is located in the Chicago Loop.

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chris0805
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby chris0805 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:30 am

I have a question in regards to buying extra MBE workbooks to practice the MBE MC. If I'm buying a PMBR MBE workbook, does it matter if it's a 2008 version? I mean, since MBE is a fictitious jurisdiction, it can't change all that often, right? Or am I way off on that assumption? Thanks.

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:05 pm

The MBE is beginning to change in subtle ways--no more tiered questions, no more multi-part questions, no more proper nouns, shorter questions--and the bar companies began to change their practice questions for the summer 2009 cycle. The law itself has not changed in a significant way, it's just the format of the questions that is changing. You should be okay with an older version of a practice question book, but make sure you are also comfortable with the newer format.

Posner
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Posner » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:06 pm

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Last edited by Posner on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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traehekat
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby traehekat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:08 pm

Posner wrote:Is it 100% necessary to condense your notes? What if someone gives you their condensed outlines and you dont learn all that well from making outlines yourself?


Pretty sure our dear friend Locke is, er... no longer with us. Hopefully someone else will answer your question though!

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ggocat
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby ggocat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:19 pm

Locke N. Lawded wrote:I do suggest that you take classes in law school for subjects that you are most worried about learning during the compressed bar review period.

It's easy to argue with someone who has been permabanned, but I'll just add this:

". . . there was no statistically significant relationship between the mean number of upper division, bar examination subject-matter courses taken by graduates ranked in the bottom 10 percent of their law school class who passed the bar examination on their first attempt and similarly ranked graduates who failed.”

Douglas Rush & Hisako Matsuo, Does Law School Curriculum Affect Bar Examination Passage?, 57 J. LEGAL EDUC. 224, 236 (2007).

The same study concluded that number of bar courses taken also had no statistically significant correlation with bar passage for students in the top half of the class.

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Matthies
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Re: Barrister Bear answers your bar review questions

Postby Matthies » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:54 pm

Posner wrote:Is it 100% necessary to condense your notes? What if someone gives you their condensed outlines and you dont learn all that well from making outlines yourself?


Do wahtever works for YOU, your noting gunning for an A here, all you need is a passing grade. If other folks outlines works for you, then use them. Test your learning methoeds on essays and MBE questions, so lomng as your improving your doing it right.




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