Would you drop out in my situation?

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Bankhead
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby Bankhead » Fri May 28, 2010 10:00 pm

yabbadabbado wrote:You may want to take a 1 year leave of absence for "personal reasons".

If you think you still want to be an attorney, get a job as a law clerk or para during that time. No need to get the para certificate to do so.

At the end of that year, you can decide whether or not dropping out is what you want to do.


Not sure what good this would do.

niko1
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby niko1 » Fri May 28, 2010 10:02 pm

Matthies wrote:
niko1 wrote:
Matthies wrote:
trialjunky wrote:Would you be eligible for the scholarship if next year you were able to pull up your grades.

If you REALLY want to be an attorney I would start networking like crazy a la Network Bible.

If not so much then quit.


Ok not to toot my own horn too much, but this is the credited response. Read the linked thread. If your willing to do all or most of what's on that list then your mid level rank won't matter. If your not, if you stargey is hope for a scrape from OCI or apply to want ads, get out now before you take on too much more debt. Who you know beats where you go or what your grades are. I did really well in law school, 13th in my class, but its never come up in any interview or offer I've had. In fact I've never had to give somome a resume before they offered me the job and I worked in firms/ law orgs since 2L. Once people know you well enough, they know your potential (or not) without having to see a piece of paper and they will hire or recoemdn you based on that alone. But if you can't do the above, and honsetly some folks can't, get out or its going to be bleak. Good luck on your decision.


Thanks for your informative post on that other site. I volunteer at legal aid, but I wasn't even aware of things like Inns of Court or that students could attend CLE classes, so I will definitely look into them when I get back. I'm also on the law school's Moot Court team, so I'm hoping I can segue that into some opportunities as well



I'm "meh" on in school groups/clubs I mean they are good in their own way, but they are NOT networking. The people you interact with, your classmates, are actually your competition for jobs.

Not saying quite the moot court AT ALL. Just saying make sure you get OUT of school and meet real working lawyers and judges, those are the folks who have jobs to offer. Moot court looks good on your resume, but the whole point in networking is not having to rely on your resume to get you the interview in the first place.
For this point on it should be priority number 1, grades 2, food 3, sleep 4, sex, meh I gave that up for my career.


Our Moot Court team has a revolving panel of local lawyers who act as coaches each semester, I hope to work with that. But I understand what you're saying.

Ah, but if only I had more poon, the stress of all of this would be easier to bear :D

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Always Credited
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 28, 2010 10:03 pm

State school in the 50's (per his original description) is either FSU or UConn. I'll bet on FSU.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Fri May 28, 2010 10:06 pm

niko1 wrote:
Matthies wrote:
niko1 wrote:
Matthies wrote:
Ok not to toot my own horn too much, but this is the credited response. Read the linked thread. If your willing to do all or most of what's on that list then your mid level rank won't matter. If your not, if you stargey is hope for a scrape from OCI or apply to want ads, get out now before you take on too much more debt. Who you know beats where you go or what your grades are. I did really well in law school, 13th in my class, but its never come up in any interview or offer I've had. In fact I've never had to give somome a resume before they offered me the job and I worked in firms/ law orgs since 2L. Once people know you well enough, they know your potential (or not) without having to see a piece of paper and they will hire or recoemdn you based on that alone. But if you can't do the above, and honsetly some folks can't, get out or its going to be bleak. Good luck on your decision.


Thanks for your informative post on that other site. I volunteer at legal aid, but I wasn't even aware of things like Inns of Court or that students could attend CLE classes, so I will definitely look into them when I get back. I'm also on the law school's Moot Court team, so I'm hoping I can segue that into some opportunities as well



I'm "meh" on in school groups/clubs I mean they are good in their own way, but they are NOT networking. The people you interact with, your classmates, are actually your competition for jobs.

Not saying quite the moot court AT ALL. Just saying make sure you get OUT of school and meet real working lawyers and judges, those are the folks who have jobs to offer. Moot court looks good on your resume, but the whole point in networking is not having to rely on your resume to get you the interview in the first place.
For this point on it should be priority number 1, grades 2, food 3, sleep 4, sex, meh I gave that up for my career.


Our Moot Court team has a revolving panel of local lawyers who act as coaches each semester, I hope to work with that. But I understand what you're saying.

Ah, but if only I had more poon, the stress of all of this would be easier to bear :D


Don't say I never helped.
--ImageRemoved--

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Matthies
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby Matthies » Fri May 28, 2010 10:14 pm

niko1 wrote:Our Moot Court team has a revolving panel of local lawyers who act as coaches each semester, I hope to work with that. But I understand what you're saying.

Ah, but if only I had more poon, the stress of all of this would be easier to bear :D


It can be hard to network effectively when someone is your professor/chaoch because they and you want to avoid any kind look of favoritism. But AFTER the semester they are fair game. So you need to find reasons to keep in touch with your choaces after you have moved on. There are various ways to do this, see the linked post for more ideas.

But with all your contacts there are TWO keys: staying in regular contact as to build report and trust AND not asking for a job. The last one seems counterintuitive to allot of people, but after you build your relationship "credits" with your networking contacts you won't have to ask for a job, they will start offering to help you.

But that's why you have to start NOW, because it takes time and effort to build up those credits so that by the time you're a 3L you can call in favors if you need to without folks feeling used, at that point you have hopeful developed a mentor/mentee relationship and they will WANT to help you. So in other words, you can't wait or 3L to start building your network. Start now.

Also internet porn helps, well not with networking, at least not networking for a legal job, future cleints maybe, but I digress

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MTal
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby MTal » Fri May 28, 2010 10:20 pm

Rowinguy2009 wrote:
If you're willing to do this, would you be interested at all in JAG? Granted JAG is fairly difficult to get into, but it seems based off my research of it that their selectivity has less to do with prestige of school and top 10% grades and more to do with committment to service, physical fitness, desire for litigation, things of that nature.


You're an idiot. Jag selection rates for the army were 10 % last round. Jag is about as competitive as Biglaw right now. If course, you could always go to the MARINE OCS with a law contract.

::snicker::

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri May 28, 2010 11:48 pm

Always Credited wrote:State school in the 50's (per his original description) is either FSU or UConn. I'll bet on FSU.



It also could be Houston or Cincinnatti.

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Rowinguy2009
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby Rowinguy2009 » Sat May 29, 2010 1:02 am

MTal wrote:
Rowinguy2009 wrote:
If you're willing to do this, would you be interested at all in JAG? Granted JAG is fairly difficult to get into, but it seems based off my research of it that their selectivity has less to do with prestige of school and top 10% grades and more to do with committment to service, physical fitness, desire for litigation, things of that nature.


You're an idiot. Jag selection rates for the army were 10 % last round. Jag is about as competitive as Biglaw right now. If course, you could always go to the MARINE OCS with a law contract.

::snicker::


Did you even read my post before you called me an idiot? I acknowledged JAG is hard to get into, didn't realize I had to quantify how hard. In fact, Air Force and Navy Jag both had less than 10% rates last round. Was just throwing JAG out to him as an option. If you take the time to look at the list of people selected in all four branches, you will see that many if not the majority are from T2's and T3's, and if you talk to anyone in the JAG (including those on selection boards) they will reiterate that it isn't top 10% and law review that is most important to them (as it is in big law) but committment to military service, meaning that often times people are selected for JAG that would have no shot at big law. I never said he would have a guranteed job, but he would have more of a shot than he would at a V100.


Since OP created this thread asking for guidance, I thought I'd throw out the first idea that came to mind to give him something to chew on. Figured that would be more useful for him than some jackass "snickering" on an internet forum.

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dood
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby dood » Sat May 29, 2010 1:23 am

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Last edited by dood on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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macattaq
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby macattaq » Sat May 29, 2010 1:59 am

OP, before you freak out, you should look at things like income-based repayment and LRAP. These can help you pay less on your loans, while paying off your debt, even if your income is only 35k (under IBR, this would mean payments of 3500/year if you qualify). If you can swing it, and are ok with doing public interest for ten years, you may even get the rest of your federal loans forgiven. Under this particular program, I believe that the real limiting factor is your income, and certain sectors of employment. I believe government, military, and other areas that aren't traditionally considered "pure" public interest will suffice. Look into this with your financial aid office before you make a decision.

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trialjunky
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby trialjunky » Sat May 29, 2010 9:13 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:
Don't say I never helped.
--ImageRemoved--



This has helped me significantly!!! :wink: :wink: :wink: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Matthies wrote:
trialjunky wrote:Would you be eligible for the scholarship if next year you were able to pull up your grades.

If you REALLY want to be an attorney I would start networking like crazy a la Network Bible.

If not so much then quit.


Ok not to toot my own horn too much, but this is the credited response. Read the linked thread. If your willing to do all or most of what's on that list then your mid level rank won't matter. If your not, if you stargey is hope for a scrape from OCI or apply to want ads, get out now before you take on too much more debt. Who you know beats where you go or what your grades are. I did really well in law school, 13th in my class, but its never come up in any interview or offer I've had. In fact I've never had to give somome a resume before they offered me the job and I worked in firms/ law orgs since 2L. Once people know you well enough, they know your potential (or not) without having to see a piece of paper and they will hire or recoemdn you based on that alone. But if you can't do the above, and honsetly some folks can't, get out or its going to be bleak. Good luck on your decision.


I wasn't sure if you were one and the same...this is the BEST advice I've rec'd on the internet!!! Thank you

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Matthies
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby Matthies » Sat May 29, 2010 11:34 am

dood wrote:Is suicide an option?


Really? Is that really necessary?

yabbadabbado
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby yabbadabbado » Sat May 29, 2010 12:53 pm

Graduating a year later would give the job market more time to recover. Getting out in the legal community during that year will give you a chance to gain more legal experience, and the chance to build more contacts in your local area. Lastly, taking that year away from school will give you a chance to mentally regroup, and hopefully not be as burnt out and depressed when you decide to return.

And if you decide not to return to LS after all, no big deal, you've just saved yourself thousands of extra $ in debt for a degree you don't need.

With dropping out, students loans shouldn't be an issue if your loans are all Stafford/Grad Plus. You'll probably get a grace period, and after that you can sign up for an Unemployment Deferment or Economic Hardship Deferment. IBR is also there if you end up with a low paying job and need to work your way up to something better over a period of time.

Lots of people take leaves of absence from law school for all sorts of reasons. It's not a big deal at all. Check with your school. Most schools will allow you to leave for your own reasons for a year and still keep the LS credits you've earned.

Bankhead wrote:
yabbadabbado wrote:You may want to take a 1 year leave of absence for "personal reasons".

If you think you still want to be an attorney, get a job as a law clerk or para during that time. No need to get the para certificate to do so.

At the end of that year, you can decide whether or not dropping out is what you want to do.


Not sure what good this would do.

solidsnake
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby solidsnake » Sat May 29, 2010 1:27 pm

niko1 wrote:Last week I got back my final few grades for Spring of 1L year and I fell short of my GPA requirement to keep my $12,000 a year scholarship. Unless I can successfully beg the administration to give me a semester of probation, I am out of $24,000 for the remaining two years. I go to a state school ranked in the 50s. With my new GPA, my rank will likely be dead middle of my class of 250+. Most employers who come to OCI at my law school won't even interview you if you're not top 20%.

The way I look at it, if I stay in school without my scholarship, I'm gonna rack up close to $70,000 in debt and might not get hired for up to half a year after I graduate. My only likely job prospects will be a state gov't position where I will make $35k starting, or a smaller private firm where I will be worked just as brutal as the Big Law firms but for half the salary.


If you contemplate dropping out, then this evidences a lack of passion for the material that I believe is necessary to make a meaningful life in the law. 70k in loans is a drop in the bucket compared to what some members of the boards will have. If you love what you do, then the shackles of debt wouldn't constrain you anymore than if you wouldn't be able to do what you love.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby worldtraveler » Sat May 29, 2010 1:36 pm

yabbadabbado wrote:Graduating a year later would give the job market more time to recover. Getting out in the legal community during that year will give you a chance to gain more legal experience, and the chance to build more contacts in your local area. Lastly, taking that year away from school will give you a chance to mentally regroup, and hopefully not be as burnt out and depressed when you decide to return.

And if you decide not to return to LS after all, no big deal, you've just saved yourself thousands of extra $ in debt for a degree you don't need.

With dropping out, students loans shouldn't be an issue if your loans are all Stafford/Grad Plus. You'll probably get a grace period, and after that you can sign up for an Unemployment Deferment or Economic Hardship Deferment. IBR is also there if you end up with a low paying job and need to work your way up to something better over a period of time.

Lots of people take leaves of absence from law school for all sorts of reasons. It's not a big deal at all. Check with your school. Most schools will allow you to leave for your own reasons for a year and still keep the LS credits you've earned.

Bankhead wrote:
yabbadabbado wrote:You may want to take a 1 year leave of absence for "personal reasons".

If you think you still want to be an attorney, get a job as a law clerk or para during that time. No need to get the para certificate to do so.

At the end of that year, you can decide whether or not dropping out is what you want to do.


Not sure what good this would do.


Uhh...it is a pretty big deal. Especially when an interviewer asks you why you had to take a year off and all you've got is "I got scared I wouldn't get a job." Taking a year off is for stuff that's a big deal, like getting cancer or having to take care of a sick family member, not nerves about whether your grades are good enough.

yabbadabbado
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Re: Would you drop out in my situation?

Postby yabbadabbado » Sat May 29, 2010 2:54 pm

You can explain it better than that. OP, like many students in his boat, would probably be looking at not finding employment until after bar passage results come in even in a great economy. At that point, most potential employers (i.e. small law firms) aren't going to care. If they ask you say, "I wanted to take time off from school to earn money and gain additional legal experience". or something like that.

worldtraveler wrote:Uhh...it is a pretty big deal. Especially when an interviewer asks you why you had to take a year off and all you've got is "I got scared I wouldn't get a job." Taking a year off is for stuff that's a big deal, like getting cancer or having to take care of a sick family member, not nerves about whether your grades are good enough.




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