Bar course day 1

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06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Thu May 27, 2010 9:18 pm

Matthies wrote:
PKSebben wrote:God this is brutal.


At least you have internet acess


I walked out of the first lecture after and hour to go home and watch them without pants on.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Thu May 27, 2010 9:27 pm

PKSebben wrote:
Matthies wrote:
PKSebben wrote:God this is brutal.


At least you have internet acess


I walked out of the first lecture after and hour to go home and watch them without pants on.


I used all of the "make up" online videos I could

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NewHere
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby NewHere » Thu May 27, 2010 11:03 pm

Matthies wrote:I used all of the "make up" online videos I could
BarBri has unlimited video watching now. (First time this summer.) I hate that they only put them up in the afternoon, though. So far I've been going to class dutifully, but if they had the day's video available at 7.30 in the morning, I think I'd give it a try.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Thu May 27, 2010 11:14 pm

NewHere wrote:
Matthies wrote:I used all of the "make up" online videos I could
BarBri has unlimited video watching now. (First time this summer.) I hate that they only put them up in the afternoon, though. So far I've been going to class dutifully, but if they had the day's video available at 7.30 in the morning, I think I'd give it a try.


That's so cool, we were limted to six

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NewHere
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby NewHere » Mon May 31, 2010 1:35 pm

Many of you will want to wait to take MBEs/essays until you have covered the subject in BarBri: DON"T. Yes your score will suck at first, but start taking practice questions now, it really is the BEST way to learn the materials, far better than reviewing your outlines. Depending on how many questions you have access to, do 10-30 MBE a day (just make sure you don't run out before the exam) maybe 1 essay a day at this point. Don't even bother to look at your score, but read all the answers, even the wrong ones. This is the best way to study for the MBE.


Question: if you follow BarBri's paced program, doing everything they tell you to do, is that enough? The program includes daily essays (only a few in the beginning, but picking up gradually) and multiple choice questions. It seems doable, but Matthies's response quoted above seems to indicate that it may be necessary to do more practice tests than BarBri tells you. Opinions?

06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Mon May 31, 2010 6:03 pm

Conventional wisdom is that the BARBRI suggested prep is totally overkill. I'm going to keep with the program but instead of "reviewing notes" I'm going to do more practice questions.

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Mon May 31, 2010 6:21 pm

Shill from a bar review company here, so I have the answers you're looking for.

It is true that most bar review companies inflate the suggested amount of work you should do assuming that most students will do significantly less.

I can guarantee you that only a few real gunners will try to do all the work that any company suggests, and they risk burning out early.

I suggest from my own experience taking the bar in 2009 and running several bar courses now that you do the following:

1. Stick to the study strategies that worked for you in law school. If you outlined then, do that now. If you made flashcards or bought commercial flashcards, use them. (FYI, both Barbri and Kaplan have free practice iPod Touch/iPhone apps you can download.)

2. Don't try to do what everyone else is doing because you feel peer pressure. The bar exam is like your first semester exams in law school, and people quickly fall into the same behaviors--trying to psych other students out, bragging about how much they're studying/not studying, boasting about how highly they are scoring on MBE practice tests and essays. Most of them are lying, so ignore it.

3. Work out a daily study schedule that works for you and stick to it. You should endeavor to study at least 8 hours per day. That means you attend your lecture in the morning, do practice problems and essays in the afternoon, and finish up with preparing for the next day's lecture. If you are still up for more, save the evening for light review with flashcards, or work on cleaning up your class notes and working on your outlines/flowcharts, etc.

4. Don't wait until you "know" a subject before doing practice essays! The important thing is to get comfortable with the format of the essays and to learn how to spot the issues and answer the questions in a timely, concise manner. For the first few weeks, it's perfectly fine to approach the essays open book. You will most likely be able to spot the issues but will have trouble regurgitating the rules. Just refer to your class notes and outlines. The main thing is that you read the model answers and make sure to note in your outlines/flashcards any concepts that you need to learn or need to clarify.

5. Do at least 30-50 MBE questions per day. This is the only way to build speed and stamina. Make sure to do them all in one sitting without taking a break, and make sure to read all the explanations for each question regardless of whether you got the questions right. You will find you get something right for the wrong reason or you just guessed.

6. Practice taking tests/writing essays somewhere that is noisy, like a coffee shop or diner, so that you will be used to focusing regardless of any distractions. This is pretty important for the actual test day when you will have no control over the conditions under which the test is administered.

7. Some states are very strict about what you can bring into the room--like earplugs--so make sure you find out what the rules are early on so that you can get used to practicing under those same conditions.

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NewHere
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby NewHere » Mon May 31, 2010 6:42 pm

Thanks for the advice, but if I may be stubborn, this is the kind of conflicting advice that is everywhere:
It is true that most bar review companies inflate the suggested amount of work you should do assuming that most students will do significantly less.

You should endeavor to study at least 8 hours per day. That means you attend your lecture in the morning, do practice problems and essays in the afternoon, and finish up with preparing for the next day's lecture. If you are still up for more, save the evening for light review with flashcards, or work on cleaning up your class notes and working on your outlines/flowcharts, etc.


So far (admittedly only one week into the bar course), I've been doing all the stuff they want us to do, and it's nowhere near 8 hours. It's about 4 hours of video in the morning, and then maybe another 2 or 3 hours in the afternoon processing class notes and doing the exercises as assigned. Doing work on flashcards, additional reading, etc. would all be in addition to the material assigned, which contradicts the proposition that they assign more than people ought to do.

So what's a reasonable bar applicant to do?

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Mon May 31, 2010 6:53 pm

NewHere wrote:Thanks for the advice, but if I may be stubborn, this is the kind of conflicting advice that is everywhere:
It is true that most bar review companies inflate the suggested amount of work you should do assuming that most students will do significantly less.

You should endeavor to study at least 8 hours per day. That means you attend your lecture in the morning, do practice problems and essays in the afternoon, and finish up with preparing for the next day's lecture. If you are still up for more, save the evening for light review with flashcards, or work on cleaning up your class notes and working on your outlines/flowcharts, etc.


So far (admittedly only one week into the bar course), I've been doing all the stuff they want us to do, and it's nowhere near 8 hours. It's about 4 hours of video in the morning, and then maybe another 2 or 3 hours in the afternoon processing class notes and doing the exercises as assigned. Doing work on flashcards, additional reading, etc. would all be in addition to the material assigned, which contradicts the proposition that they assign more than people ought to do.

So what's a reasonable bar applicant to do?


They assign you more than you can do, trust me. Are you really reading the entire big outline? Or even the entire mini-review? You almost always have a large reading assignment on your Paced Program for the next day's lecture--are you telling me you've been doing absolutely all the reading?

It's okay to take it kind of easy right now, but once July hits, that is when you need to do some serious self-assessments and figure out where your weaknesses lay. You will find yourself putting in more hours because you will have to memorize all the elements of all the torts and crimes, all the con law tests, etc. If you have extra time on your hands now, you should work on boning up on those subjects you never took during law school. Don't wait for the lecture, because for some topics--especially UCC--you get only one lecture and it's pretty hard to pick up Secured Transactions or Commercial Paper in a mere three hours.

One last thing, you will hear a lot of conflicting advice throughout the bar prep period--that's why you need to figure out for yourself, and soon, what is going to work best for you.

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NewHere
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby NewHere » Mon May 31, 2010 9:11 pm

They assign you more than you can do, trust me. Are you really reading the entire big outline? Or even the entire mini-review? You almost always have a large reading assignment on your Paced Program for the next day's lecture--are you telling me you've been doing absolutely all the reading?


I have not been doing any reading from the big outline, because it's not assigned. Similarly, what I've been doing with the mini-review material is skim it after the lectures (at the end of a subject), because that too is usually not assigned, just suggested. (Skimming after having heard the lectures and outlined the material serves to see everything once more and see if there is anything the lecturer didn't mention, but other than that it doesn't add much -- no wonder it is only suggested.)

06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Mon May 31, 2010 9:21 pm

The NY Bar class hasn't had long reading assignments yet, but if you look ahead a couple of weeks they get very lengthy.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby TTT-LS » Mon May 31, 2010 9:38 pm

,
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Mon May 31, 2010 9:40 pm

I had two good sets today, too. It's like I'm learning something!

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:34 am

I agree with the shill :) in that you need to find what works for YOU and do that. But you will learn the law by doing practice questions, more so than reading the big books. Questions + your lecture notes = really what you need as core comapants then add in whatever personal methods work for you: flashcards, your own outlines, study groups whatever. But main thing is try to stay on corse with 1 essay a day and 20-30 MBE.

Also there are tons of essay questions (at least there was for me since we were MEE state) don't feel like you need to write out answers to everyone. Save some of the newer ones for writing practice, but the older ones you can read then just outline your answers. Or read then discus your answers with your study group (but limit the time to real time, if you have 30 mins, then allow 15 to read and 15 to discuss, or whatever works for you). Do not get in the habit of spending more time on essays ten you have (at first ok, but by July set times).

Also be sure to add the good/new rules statements from the essays to your outline or running list of rules, because like I said many rules in the essays will not be covered in class. Again put these into your own words, don't try to memorize some long ass rules stament from the right aswnwer, at least in my barbri book it said the answers were written w/o any time constraints, unlike on real exam.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:37 am

Oh, and I really suggest you try the online questions unless you need to have paper/pen for pratice. The book questions start easy and get hard, which can sort of mess with your head mid july when your score starts to plumment becuase the MBE questions are getting hrader. Online you can create your own quizes, and you should let it radomize the toughness. It will also track your weak areas, like Torts: product libaility 5/12 or soemthing like that. Personally I found it best to asnwer the question, read all the answers, then move on to the next.

06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:11 pm

Today was insufferable.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:53 pm

PKSebben wrote:Today was insufferable.


what subjects?

06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:54 pm

the MPT, man. It was so bad.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:01 pm

PKSebben wrote:the MPT, man. It was so bad.


Yea that lecture is pretty bad assuming its the same one we had, its likel how to wite a lehgal argument for dummies. Not sure how it is there, but here we had two MPTs and each counted as much as 3.5 essays, so they where big poit grabers. The one thing I think people don't realize (until you have seen a graded exam) is that they really do (at least here) give you ppoints for if its a memo, writing it in memo form with To: From: shit. I mean like 1 point each for that stuff!

Also if you can get your hands on a graded exam I think it helps. here you only get your exam back if you fail, but seeing how they grade was really an eye opner for me (and how one guy would give you points for tsomething and the second guy whould totally miss it).

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NewHere
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby NewHere » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:22 pm

Yes, today was pretty insufferable. The 4-hour lecture (4.01, to be precise) could easily have been condensed to 10 pages of reading, doable in half an hour.

It was also the first fill-in-the-blank kind of lecture. If they're all like this, I thought last week's method (no outline, just write your own class notes) was better.

06072010
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby 06072010 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:33 pm

Thumbs up to Agency lecturer.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby TTT-LS » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:14 pm

,
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:30 pm

PKSebben wrote:Thumbs up to Agency lecturer.


Is it the bald freaky guy with glasses who makes stargne noises to try and remind you of key topics? He's freaking great, espically his dog thing.

Kochel
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Kochel » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:44 pm

Matthies wrote:
PKSebben wrote:Thumbs up to Agency lecturer.


Is it the bald freaky guy with glasses who makes stargne noises to try and remind you of key topics? He's freaking great, espically his dog thing.


I am amazed at your ability to remember details from your bar prep days. My own experiences are in the distant past, but I discarded all memories of the bar within days of taking the exam.

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Matthies
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Re: Bar course day 1

Postby Matthies » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:47 pm

Kochel wrote:
Matthies wrote:
PKSebben wrote:Thumbs up to Agency lecturer.


Is it the bald freaky guy with glasses who makes stargne noises to try and remind you of key topics? He's freaking great, espically his dog thing.


I am amazed at your ability to remember details from your bar prep days. My own experiences are in the distant past, but I discarded all memories of the bar within days of taking the exam.


Only useless details I'm afraid anything that might be usefull, like the rules of evidence or civ pro are compleatly gone.




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