Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby General Tso » Tue May 18, 2010 11:34 am

Both of them have forms to fill out if you are working at a nonprofit or unpaid this summer to extend your access. I am clerking at a small firm and I need access or I am dead. So am I screwed?

helfer snooterbagon
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue May 18, 2010 11:57 am

Do you need Westlaw/Lexis access to do your work for the firm? If that is the case, then you really shouldn't be using your account. However, a number of my classmates did do exactly that.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby General Tso » Tue May 18, 2010 12:07 pm

helfer snooterbagon wrote:Do you need Westlaw/Lexis access to do your work for the firm? If that is the case, then you really shouldn't be using your account. However, a number of my classmates did do exactly that.


yep I need it. problem is my firm does mostly transactional work but I have been assigned to the one litigation case. since not many people around here know much about litigation I have a particularly strong need for wexis.

helfer snooterbagon
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue May 18, 2010 12:15 pm

I am sure you can get a copy of your account agreement that specifies exactly what you can and cannot do. You could always approach the rep and perhaps they will be sympathetic, but I kind of doubt it. Probably best to talk it over with your firm. Also, may be worth talking with the legal librarians as well. At my school they put on a number of presentations during 2L and 3L about cost effective research and how to get information for free.

User avatar
wiseowl
Posts: 1071
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby wiseowl » Tue May 18, 2010 12:31 pm

yea, it's iffy. if you get caught you're up a creek, but not many get caught. i'd see how far you can get with Google Scholar, HeinOnline, Justia, PACER, Casemaker, etc.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Renzo » Wed May 19, 2010 1:35 am

Lexis will let you extend for summer for the purpose of personal education/familiarization...

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed May 19, 2010 1:38 am

Pretty sure this is specifically prohibited. They are required to pay for a firm account. I remember reading somewhere about someone who got into hot water after they advertised on craigslist that they needed an associate with an account for the summer.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8448
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby thesealocust » Wed May 19, 2010 9:29 pm

oops
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous Loser
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Wed May 19, 2010 10:24 pm

Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby General Tso » Thu May 20, 2010 12:53 am

Anonymous Loser wrote:Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.


even a firm that hardly does any litigation?

User avatar
lostjake
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby lostjake » Thu May 20, 2010 1:05 am

Life is give and take. Maybe you'll have to slip one by Westlaw, but its better for you to have something on your resume, and hopefully you'll be learning something while you're there.

User avatar
JG Hall
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby JG Hall » Thu May 20, 2010 4:18 am

.
Last edited by JG Hall on Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous Loser
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Thu May 20, 2010 8:06 am

General Tso wrote:
Anonymous Loser wrote:Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.


even a firm that hardly does any litigation?


1) If the firm is so ill-equipped to handle litigation that their case management strategy is to bring in a 1L with a student Westlaw account, perhaps the firm shouldn't be taking on such matters.

2) Even the very basic transactional/familiy law/trusts & estates work is going to require occasional legal research. If the firm is unable to negotiate a favorable service contract with the local Lexis rep, I would be concerned about the firm's ability to develop profitable rate arrangements with clients, not to mention settlement negotiations with adverse parties.

3) How much a resume boost can you seriously expect to get from a cut-rate firm that is most likely viewed with a certain amount of disdain in the local legal community?

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby General Tso » Fri May 21, 2010 12:07 am

Anonymous Loser wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Anonymous Loser wrote:Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.


even a firm that hardly does any litigation?


1) If the firm is so ill-equipped to handle litigation that their case management strategy is to bring in a 1L with a student Westlaw account, perhaps the firm shouldn't be taking on such matters.

2) Even the very basic transactional/familiy law/trusts & estates work is going to require occasional legal research. If the firm is unable to negotiate a favorable service contract with the local Lexis rep, I would be concerned about the firm's ability to develop profitable rate arrangements with clients, not to mention settlement negotiations with adverse parties.

3) How much a resume boost can you seriously expect to get from a cut-rate firm that is most likely viewed with a certain amount of disdain in the local legal community?


You are leaping to way too many conclusions my friend. This firm is rolling in it. We have a major (T14) law library nearby, I will just use that for now.

How much of a resume boost would it have been if I had sat at home this summer like 1/2 my classmates? I've learned a shit ton about day to day legal practice in one week, and I'm getting paid enough to cover my bills through the summer. Absolutely no good?

User avatar
JG Hall
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby JG Hall » Fri May 21, 2010 7:38 am

.
Last edited by JG Hall on Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous Loser
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Fri May 21, 2010 8:09 am

Perhaps I am jumping to conclusions, but when a law firm lacks the legal industry's most basic litigation tools, yet still takes on litigation matters, it's hard not to speculate that they are either financially troubled or poorly managed. Be especially diligent in your research: the firm's limited research capabilities could very possibly become the focal point of a malpractice proceeding should the matter end unfavorably for the client. Best of luck.

User avatar
Duralex
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:25 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Duralex » Fri May 21, 2010 8:21 am

All of that seems a little harsh, but I'd be cautious too.

Fastcase is available for $60/mo (in some states your employers may already have access through the bar association, and Fastcase might also be less fussy about off-season student access.) However, you can't fully rely on it as a citator so after gathering your cases of interest it will be off to that library to crack open the bound version of Shepards.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby General Tso » Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 am

Duralex wrote:All of that seems a little harsh,


No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby General Tso » Fri May 21, 2010 9:51 am

JG Hall wrote:Half of your classmates are sitting home this summer?

Haha.


well, that was probably a bit of a stretch. but most people i talked to in the weeks before finals still didnt have anything. i have heard that other sections may have had more success. In any event very few people have paid jobs, so in that respect I consider myself extremely fortunate.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Renzo » Fri May 21, 2010 12:39 pm

General Tso wrote:
Duralex wrote:All of that seems a little harsh,


No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

There actually weren't any lawsuits until Lexis was invented, they just solved problems with deathmatches.

Mr. Pablo
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Fri May 21, 2010 12:56 pm

Renzo wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Duralex wrote:All of that seems a little harsh,


No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

There actually weren't any lawsuits until Lexis was invented, they just solved problems with deathmatches.

Wait. WTF? We don't solve legal issues with deathmatches anymore? I've already shipped my weapons and armor to school. Shit. What about my stick with nails in it? Don't we get to use those still?

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Renzo » Fri May 21, 2010 1:17 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:
Renzo wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Duralex wrote:All of that seems a little harsh,


No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

There actually weren't any lawsuits until Lexis was invented, they just solved problems with deathmatches.

Wait. WTF? We don't solve legal issues with deathmatches anymore? I've already shipped my weapons and armor to school. Shit. What about my stick with nails in it? Don't we get to use those still?

No, it's ok, you'll still need it for the journal competition.

Anonymous Loser
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Fri May 21, 2010 10:10 pm

General Tso wrote:
Duralex wrote:All of that seems a little harsh,


No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!


Look, if you want to associate yourself with a firm that is unable to keep pace with the modern practice of law, so be it. As for myself, I spent the morning in a complementary training session with my firm's Lexis rep, after which I received a Lexis ID code which will enable me to utilize the database at no cost to the firm for two weeks. More importantly, I received both a mousepad and pen emblazoned with the Lexis logo, in addition to a totebag which lacks an identifying logo, but does proudly display an inspirational slogan.

And yes, you are correct: it is true that legal research databases are a relatively recent development. Actually, come to think of it, email, faxes, and PDF's are also technological developments that have only become widely accepted within the past ten years. Has your firm adopted these new-fangled innovations as well? Or are they still waiting to see if they'll really catch on?

Mr. Pablo
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Fri May 21, 2010 11:46 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote: I spent the morning in a complementary training session with my firm's Lexis rep.... More importantly, I received both a mousepad and pen emblazoned with the Lexis logo, in addition to a totebag which lacks an identifying logo, but does proudly display an inspirational slogan.



This might be one of the best lines to grace the pages of TLS. Ever.

User avatar
Duralex
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:25 pm

Re: Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer?

Postby Duralex » Tue May 25, 2010 3:14 pm

General Tso wrote:
Duralex wrote:All of that seems a little harsh,


No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!


Just to keep it real -- we had Westlaw (or LN-can't recall) access via a dialup text-based terminal on a Mac SE/30 some time around 1990, and I think we had already had it available for a few years at that point. (It was first introduced in the '70s--picture Matthew Broderick in Wargames with the acoustically coupled modem that strapped onto the phone receiver.) Our setup was complete with a dot-matrix ImageWriter for printouts. I think a little bit later on they released a custom client that was basically still a textual terminal with a menuing system, better hypertext, and a simplistic query builder. Until that point, the bound Shepards was probably still easier (and maybe even faster sometimes.) A little later, the web versions came along and ended the debate. These days, while it's possible to do it all with books it really is a huge time-waster compared to a database.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: encore1101, Google Adsense [Bot] and 5 guests