How to handle closed book exams

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corporatelaw87
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How to handle closed book exams

Postby corporatelaw87 » Thu May 13, 2010 10:03 pm

So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

katjust
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby katjust » Thu May 13, 2010 10:10 pm

My belief is that outlines do not do much to help during the exam, they are truly a study aid; especially on the standard time pressured exams. You have to be a little more prepared for closed book exams, but that just takes a little more time. Make sure you know the rules as well as possible, and how to spot the issues in fact patterns. However, I would give that advice whether it was open or closed book.

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Kohinoor
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby Kohinoor » Thu May 13, 2010 10:15 pm

corporatelaw87 wrote:So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

You were never going to be relying on the outlines. More to the point, the golden rule of the curve is, "It doesn't matter as long as they do it to everyone." Nobody gets an outline so study and go balls out on the test.

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:23 pm

true but that also means that if one guy studied harder than everyone else he could smoke the whole group.

A real life example would be "no weapons allowed in the fight" ok, that means that no one has a weapon, awsome. That being said the guy who studied martial arts will murder the tubs in the backrow. Just a thought.


Kohinoor wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

You were never going to be relying on the outlines. More to the point, the golden rule of the curve is, "It doesn't matter as long as they do it to everyone." Nobody gets an outline so study and go balls out on the test.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby vanwinkle » Thu May 13, 2010 10:24 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

You were never going to be relying on the outlines. More to the point, the golden rule of the curve is, "It doesn't matter as long as they do it to everyone." Nobody gets an outline so study and go balls out on the test.

This. People make the outlines as a study method and that's about it. Even in open-book tests, if you're looking at the outline during the test, you're falling behind the curve anyway. If you spend enough time making your outlines, you won't need them during the test.

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Kohinoor
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby Kohinoor » Thu May 13, 2010 10:25 pm

lawyerhopefull wrote:true but that also means that if one guy studied harder than everyone else he could smoke the whole group.

A real life example would be "no weapons allowed in the fight" ok, that means that no one has a weapon, awsome. That being said the guy who studied martial arts will murder the tubs in the backrow. Just a thought.

But that's true either way. The guy who's looking at his outline isn't typing.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby vanwinkle » Thu May 13, 2010 10:26 pm

lawyerhopefull wrote:true but that also means that if one guy studied harder than everyone else he could smoke the whole group.

A real life example would be "no weapons allowed in the fight" ok, that means that no one has a weapon, awsome. That being said the guy who studied martial arts will murder the tubs in the backrow. Just a thought.

So, better-prepared people do better. That's the idea.

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:27 pm

who cares if it eats up a few extra minutes(albeit try not to need it if you can) but the tests are a lifetime long anyways. I always have at least an hour left that I dont need even when I take latrine breaks and recheck my answers a few times.

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rbgrocio
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby rbgrocio » Thu May 13, 2010 10:27 pm

lawyerhopefull wrote:true but that also means that if one guy studied harder than everyone else he could smoke the whole group.

A real life example would be "no weapons allowed in the fight" ok, that means that no one has a weapon, awsome. That being said the guy who studied martial arts will murder the tubs in the backrow. Just a thought.


Kohinoor wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

You were never going to be relying on the outlines. More to the point, the golden rule of the curve is, "It doesn't matter as long as they do it to everyone." Nobody gets an outline so study and go balls out on the test.


Ok... so that tells you that you should strive to be the one with the martial arts. Law school is about survival of the fittest. Work to be the fittest; that's the only way to succeed. It does not matter whether a test is open book or closed book. Your goal should be to make every test a closed book one and to know everything that was covered in the semester or that could possibly be in the exam.

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:29 pm

exactly.

rbgrocio wrote:
lawyerhopefull wrote:true but that also means that if one guy studied harder than everyone else he could smoke the whole group.

A real life example would be "no weapons allowed in the fight" ok, that means that no one has a weapon, awsome. That being said the guy who studied martial arts will murder the tubs in the backrow. Just a thought.


Kohinoor wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

You were never going to be relying on the outlines. More to the point, the golden rule of the curve is, "It doesn't matter as long as they do it to everyone." Nobody gets an outline so study and go balls out on the test.


Ok... so that tells you that you should strive to be the one with the martial arts. Law school is about survival of the fittest. Work to be the fittest; that's the only way to succeed. It does not matter whether a test is open book or closed book. Your goal should be to make every test a closed book one and to know everything that was covered in the semester or that could possibly be in the exam.

corporatelaw87
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby corporatelaw87 » Thu May 13, 2010 10:32 pm

rbgrocio wrote:
lawyerhopefull wrote:true but that also means that if one guy studied harder than everyone else he could smoke the whole group.

A real life example would be "no weapons allowed in the fight" ok, that means that no one has a weapon, awsome. That being said the guy who studied martial arts will murder the tubs in the backrow. Just a thought.


Kohinoor wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So I was at an admitted student reception for the school I will be attending today and found out that the majority of 1L exams are closed book (no outlines). I was wondering if anyone has an tips or input on how to handle these exams, being that I was expecting to being able to bring outlines in. I thought that was the norm for 1L exams, but apparently my school is different.

You were never going to be relying on the outlines. More to the point, the golden rule of the curve is, "It doesn't matter as long as they do it to everyone." Nobody gets an outline so study and go balls out on the test.


Ok... so that tells you that you should strive to be the one with the martial arts. Law school is about survival of the fittest. Work to be the fittest; that's the only way to succeed. It does not matter whether a test is open book or closed book. Your goal should be to make every test a closed book one and to know everything that was covered in the semester or that could possibly be in the exam.
[/quote]


So is the best advice just memorize your outline? I know people say to do that even when you get to have the outline during the test (but at least it's there if you forget something).

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:33 pm

I agree that its better to have a weapon and not need it, but if you cant have it then you cant have it. Just a fact of life sometimes.

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rbgrocio
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby rbgrocio » Thu May 13, 2010 10:37 pm

What does it matter if you can have it or not? If you can't have it, no one else can. Everyone is bound to forget something or to miss a point or to not raise an issue. You are graded on a curve. It does not matter if you forget something (the feeling is horrible, just so you know) as long as you forget less than everyone else. Knowing your outline and being able to explain to yourself and to others how to solve a particular issue is the key, or so I think.

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:43 pm

what does it matter if you don't know karate and the other guys do, none of you has a weapon, what could go wrong? :roll:

rbgrocio wrote:What does it matter if you can have it or not? If you can't have it, no one else can. Everyone is bound to forget something or to miss a point or to not raise an issue. You are graded on a curve. It does not matter if you forget something (the feeling is horrible, just so you know) as long as you forget less than everyone else. Knowing your outline and being able to explain to yourself and to others how to solve a particular issue is the key, or so I think.

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rbgrocio
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby rbgrocio » Thu May 13, 2010 10:50 pm

lawyerhopefull wrote:what does it matter if you don't know karate and the other guys do, none of you has a weapon, what could go wrong? :roll:

rbgrocio wrote:What does it matter if you can have it or not? If you can't have it, no one else can. Everyone is bound to forget something or to miss a point or to not raise an issue. You are graded on a curve. It does not matter if you forget something (the feeling is horrible, just so you know) as long as you forget less than everyone else. Knowing your outline and being able to explain to yourself and to others how to solve a particular issue is the key, or so I think.



You, as a law student, get exactly what I mean. Study hard. Period! There is no need to get technical or to roll eyes. The point is that you can't go in to a test telling yourself: "Oh my God! the guy next to me may know karate and beat me up." You can't control what anyone else is doing. You can only control what is in your hands and that is to learn the freaking material. Whether it be open book or not, it does not matter. If you have an outline there may still be someone who knows "karate" and memorized the whole thing and does not have to waste time flipping pages trying to find the answer to something and that way he may be able to spot that one issue you were never able to find because you were too "busy" looking at your outline. The point is that having an outline or not is not going to determine how well you do.

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macattaq
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby macattaq » Thu May 13, 2010 10:51 pm

corporatelaw87 wrote:So is the best advice just memorize your outline? I know people say to do that even when you get to have the outline during the test (but at least it's there if you forget something).


Yes, that's a start. Memorize it. Then, memorize your policy arguments. Then practice application. CALI lessons, E&E, hypos, practice tests. You should be able to answer questions without referring to your outline. When you get into the exam, write a skeleton outline listing all the issues that are likely to come up.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby vanwinkle » Thu May 13, 2010 10:51 pm

corporatelaw87 wrote:So is the best advice just memorize your outline? I know people say to do that even when you get to have the outline during the test (but at least it's there if you forget something).

In the process of making your outline, you will go over the material so thoroughly you will find you've memorized the important parts by the time you're done.

lawyerhopefull wrote:who cares if it eats up a few extra minutes(albeit try not to need it if you can) but the tests are a lifetime long anyways. I always have at least an hour left that I dont need even when I take latrine breaks and recheck my answers a few times.

This guy is a troll and to be thoroughly ignored. If you're consistently finishing law school exams more than an hour early you're either not getting anywhere near the highest possible grade, or you're some kind of rare legal supergenius the likes of which the world has never seen before.

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rbgrocio
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby rbgrocio » Thu May 13, 2010 10:53 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So is the best advice just memorize your outline? I know people say to do that even when you get to have the outline during the test (but at least it's there if you forget something).

In the process of making your outline, you will go over the material so thoroughly you will find you've memorized the important parts by the time you're done.

lawyerhopefull wrote:who cares if it eats up a few extra minutes(albeit try not to need it if you can) but the tests are a lifetime long anyways. I always have at least an hour left that I dont need even when I take latrine breaks and recheck my answers a few times.

This guy is a troll and to be thoroughly ignored. If you're consistently finishing law school exams more than an hour early you're either not getting anywhere near the highest possible grade, or you're some kind of rare legal supergenius the likes of which the world has never seen before.



Or he knows "karate" :lol:

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:54 pm

overall we have the same point, I just am stressing that some people may get over calm with "we're all on the same boat" and the truth is thats not true. Its kind of a myth, basicly why jog when you can sprint. I think we're both trying to say the same thing in different ways.

rbgrocio wrote:
lawyerhopefull wrote:what does it matter if you don't know karate and the other guys do, none of you has a weapon, what could go wrong? :roll:

rbgrocio wrote:What does it matter if you can have it or not? If you can't have it, no one else can. Everyone is bound to forget something or to miss a point or to not raise an issue. You are graded on a curve. It does not matter if you forget something (the feeling is horrible, just so you know) as long as you forget less than everyone else. Knowing your outline and being able to explain to yourself and to others how to solve a particular issue is the key, or so I think.



You, as a law student, get exactly what I mean. Study hard. Period! There is no need to get technical or to roll eyes. The point is that you can't go in to a test telling yourself: "Oh my God! the guy next to me may know karate and beat me up." You can't control what anyone else is doing. You can only control what is in your hands and that is to learn the freaking material. Whether it be open book or not, it does not matter. If you have an outline there may still be someone who knows "karate" and memorized the whole thing and does not have to waste time flipping pages trying to find the answer to something and that way he may be able to spot that one issue you were never able to find because you were too "busy" looking at your outline. The point is that having an outline or not is not going to determine how well you do.

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 10:55 pm

guy, just because you are in a wheelchair dosn't mean someone else can't climb a rockwall. I get it that lawstudents tend to be unicentric, but you dont have to be.

vanwinkle wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:So is the best advice just memorize your outline? I know people say to do that even when you get to have the outline during the test (but at least it's there if you forget something).

In the process of making your outline, you will go over the material so thoroughly you will find you've memorized the important parts by the time you're done.

lawyerhopefull wrote:who cares if it eats up a few extra minutes(albeit try not to need it if you can) but the tests are a lifetime long anyways. I always have at least an hour left that I dont need even when I take latrine breaks and recheck my answers a few times.

This guy is a troll and to be thoroughly ignored. If you're consistently finishing law school exams more than an hour early you're either not getting anywhere near the highest possible grade, or you're some kind of rare legal supergenius the likes of which the world has never seen before.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

I handled my closed book exams the same way I handled my open book exams: blind and without a clue as to what I'm writing about.

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 11:00 pm

your jokeing right? How'd you do if serious?

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:I handled my closed book exams the same way I handled my open book exams: blind and without a clue as to what I'm writing about.

270910
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby 270910 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:01 pm

lawyerhopefull wrote:who cares if it eats up a few extra minutes(albeit try not to need it if you can) but the tests are a lifetime long anyways. I always have at least an hour left that I dont need even when I take latrine breaks and recheck my answers a few times.


Image

lawyerhopefull
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby lawyerhopefull » Thu May 13, 2010 11:05 pm

hows it stupid to just state a fact? Its true for a lot of people, its not that rare.

disco_barred wrote:
lawyerhopefull wrote:who cares if it eats up a few extra minutes(albeit try not to need it if you can) but the tests are a lifetime long anyways. I always have at least an hour left that I dont need even when I take latrine breaks and recheck my answers a few times.


Image

270910
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Re: How to handle closed book exams

Postby 270910 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:07 pm

Don't fight it, kid. The nomination and selection process on these things has no room for appeal.




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