Crim Law ?

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McBean
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Crim Law ?

Postby McBean » Tue May 11, 2010 4:21 pm

A and B are robbing a bank. B shoots and kills a guard.

Under the MPC (no felony murder), what is A's liability for the homicide if he knew B had a loaded gun?

What if A actually and reasonably believed B's gun was unloaded?

What if A actually and unreasonably believed B's gun was unloaded?

eth3n
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Re: Crim Law ?

Postby eth3n » Tue May 11, 2010 5:19 pm

Extreme recklessness (and, thus, murder) is presumed if the homicide occurs while the defendant is engaged in, or is an accomplice in, the commission, attempted commission, or flight from one of the dangerous felonies specified in the statute. MPC § 210.2(1)(b), i am going to guess robbery is one of those.

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McBean
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Re: Crim Law ?

Postby McBean » Tue May 11, 2010 5:31 pm

eth3n wrote:Extreme recklessness (and, thus, murder) is presumed if the homicide occurs while the defendant is engaged in, or is an accomplice in, the commission, attempted commission, or flight from one of the dangerous felonies specified in the statute. MPC § 210.2(1)(b), i am going to guess robbery is one of those.



You are correct about robbery being included. But, does "is an accomplice in" make you liable for homicides you did not cause directly?

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McBean
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Re: Crim Law ?

Postby McBean » Tue May 11, 2010 5:34 pm

I should clarify: Here is the question that made me ask my question:

A and B are robbing a bank. B shoots guard.

The correct multiple choice answer was:

D - When prosecuted for murder, A will be allowed to present evidence that B told him the gun was unloaded.


Why is this the correct answer?

eth3n
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Re: Crim Law ?

Postby eth3n » Tue May 11, 2010 5:39 pm

#1 - Crim Law multiple choice questions are batshit crazy and im sorry
#2 - I think the issue is that an unloaded gun would not reach the extreme recklessness standard, i.e. impossible that he would be in trouble for anyone's death other than perhaps the co-participant (obviously this should not be a MC question, but this is my guess).

I am not 100% about MPC, so take with grain of salt. Don't forget however that they tend to focus on their intentional/knowing/reckless/negligent system.

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crystalhawkeye
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Re: Crim Law ?

Postby crystalhawkeye » Wed May 12, 2010 12:50 pm

McBean wrote:I should clarify: Here is the question that made me ask my question:

A and B are robbing a bank. B shoots guard.

The correct multiple choice answer was:

D - When prosecuted for murder, A will be allowed to present evidence that B told him the gun was unloaded.


Why is this the correct answer?

If A believed the gun was unloaded, it would negate the mes rea of recklessness - if B told him the gun was unloaded, he obviously did not have the subjective awareness of the risk that someone would be shot. To be liable via accomplice liability, you have to at least have the knowledge of the criminal intent (in most cases, excepting willful ignorance). No mens rea = no liability.




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