Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

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stinger35
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby stinger35 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:25 pm

Ended up dropping .09 to 3.81. Still should be top 5% but doubtful its #1 in the class still.

Okay by me though, as long as a t14 lets me in.

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rbgrocio
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:15 pm

stinger35 wrote:Ended up dropping .09 to 3.81. Still should be top 5% but doubtful its #1 in the class still.

Okay by me though, as long as a t14 lets me in.



I dropped .18, and I'm no longer top 10... but I have shed enough tears already. I have moved on.

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Matthies
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby Matthies » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:17 pm

A'nold wrote: I looked at the checklist and the points I missed were based on not using specific terminology that she favored, such as "substantial justice and fair play" when I said something equal but used the verbage from the E&E. Again, my fault and I will explain later why this is so.)


Good advice and congrats on your grades!

I will add something to this, learned from hindsight, not realizing it as much as I should have 1L, but this is a good lesson to learn now, especially for later when you have a bunch of statutory intprepation classes. I'm all for creating your own BLL or using BLL from supplements that are easier to remember than the convoluted rules in the casebook or that professors give you in class.

That being said some rules MUST have key language, knowing which rules require this is the hard part, fair play and substantial justice is an prime example of one of those rules, because its the name of a test, a subtest, (purposeful avaimalment and forseeablity). Civ Pro and Con Law are the two first year classes that you will run into this most, because well the rest are pretty much common law based and the exact terms are not necessary, but civ pro being statute based and con law being based on the words of the constitution, you run into "statutory interpretation" issues where the exact language does count.

Just a lesson learned by me, like you, the hard way. now that most of the common law based classes are over your going to start seeing exams where at least the KEY terms need to be the same as they appear in the cases interpreting the statues or the statute themselves to get points. I mean, again from experience I learnt later on if you had said: something needs minimum contacts so that this justice thing don't get all out of whack and offend traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice.you weould have been fine. Many profs/bar exam grades will just look for the "key words" from the rule, you can have made up shit in-between them, but to long as they are there (and I like to underline them) you get the points.

Statutory Intpretatipon is sort of like law school part two where words matter in and of themsmleves and whwer they come in a senatnce. The who may/must and/or types of things. Crrim Pro, Evidence are going to be classes like that

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A'nold
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby A'nold » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:20 pm

Matthies wrote:
A'nold wrote: I looked at the checklist and the points I missed were based on not using specific terminology that she favored, such as "substantial justice and fair play" when I said something equal but used the verbage from the E&E. Again, my fault and I will explain later why this is so.)


Good advice and congrats on your grades!

I will add something to this, learned from hindsight, not realizing it as much as I should have 1L, but this is a good lesson to learn now, especially for later when you have a bunch of statutory intprepation classes. I'm all for creating your own BLL or using BLL from supplements that are easier to remember than the convoluted rules in the casebook or that professors give you in class.

That being said some rules MUST have key language, knowing which rules require this is the hard part, fair play and substantial justice is an prime example of one of those rules, because its the name of a test, a subtest, (purposeful avaimalment and forseeablity). Civ Pro and Con Law are the two first year classes that you will run into this most, because well the rest are pretty much common law based and the exact terms are not necessary, but civ pro being statute based and con law being based on the words of the constitution, you run into "statutory interpretation" issues where the exact language does count.

Just a lesson learned by me, like you, the hard way. now that most of the common law based classes are over your going to start seeing exams where at least the KEY terms need to be the same as they appear in the cases interpreting the statues or the statute themselves to get points. I mean, again from experience I learnt later on if you had said: something needs minimum contacts so that this justice thing don't get all out of whack and offend traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice.you weould have been fine. Many profs/bar exam grades will just look for the "key words" from the rule, you can have made up shit in-between them, but to long as they are there (and I like to underline them) you get the points.

Statutory Intpretatipon is sort of like law school part two where words matter in and of themsmleves and whwer they come in a senatnce. The who may/must and/or types of things. Crrim Pro, Evidence are going to be classes like that


I hear yah. Take heed 0L's! :) Oh and thanks for the congrats.

tomwelling
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby tomwelling » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:30 pm

Matthies wrote:
A'nold wrote: I looked at the checklist and the points I missed were based on not using specific terminology that she favored, such as "substantial justice and fair play" when I said something equal but used the verbage from the E&E. Again, my fault and I will explain later why this is so.)


Good advice and congrats on your grades!

I will add something to this, learned from hindsight, not realizing it as much as I should have 1L, but this is a good lesson to learn now, especially for later when you have a bunch of statutory intprepation classes. I'm all for creating your own BLL or using BLL from supplements that are easier to remember than the convoluted rules in the casebook or that professors give you in class.

That being said some rules MUST have key language, knowing which rules require this is the hard part, fair play and substantial justice is an prime example of one of those rules, because its the name of a test, a subtest, (purposeful avaimalment and forseeablity). Civ Pro and Con Law are the two first year classes that you will run into this most, because well the rest are pretty much common law based and the exact terms are not necessary, but civ pro being statute based and con law being based on the words of the constitution, you run into "statutory interpretation" issues where the exact language does count.

Just a lesson learned by me, like you, the hard way. now that most of the common law based classes are over your going to start seeing exams where at least the KEY terms need to be the same as they appear in the cases interpreting the statues or the statute themselves to get points. I mean, again from experience I learnt later on if you had said: something needs minimum contacts so that this justice thing don't get all out of whack and offend traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice.you weould have been fine. Many profs/bar exam grades will just look for the "key words" from the rule, you can have made up shit in-between them, but to long as they are there (and I like to underline them) you get the points.

Statutory Intpretatipon is sort of like law school part two where words matter in and of themsmleves and whwer they come in a senatnce. The who may/must and/or types of things. Crrim Pro, Evidence are going to be classes like that



I agree with this.

One extra thought, even if it is obvious: you still have to make sure you sufficiently analyze the issues even if you state the key words/factors/etc.

On my civ pro test, I got good points for being able to grab the key words/phrases, but the thing that kept me from getting a top grade was the fact that I somewhat glossed over the analysis. I think the best test answers for something like this would incorporate both the precise language where important and the good analysis.... just my thought.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:35 am

apper123 wrote:
apper123 wrote:
Matthies wrote:
apper123 wrote:CrimLaw, outside maybe IP, was by far the exam I was 100% the most confident about and it's not close. What the hell? I'm just dumbfounded right now.


Welcome to LS grades, this won't be the last time you feel this way


It's just kinda gross cause if it wasn't for this grade, I'd be top 5% and have a shot at CCN as a transfer and definitely MVBP.

With this grade, I may drop out of the top 10% of the class and will get crucified at OCI.


nvm still a single digit rank in my class and top 5%. whew.


Congrats!

For my part, I am preparing myself for the inevitable, though my finals were later than most, so I don't expect any grades for a while yet.

Please send me a torts and property miracle. Thank you!

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rbgrocio
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:05 pm

Congrats my friend. 8)

Oh, and just to put all of those nervous OL'ers who have been watching my progression at ease, my grades this semester are easily explainable (I just reviewed them and the prof. comments).

Keep in mind that my school curves to about a 2.67:

On a few of my B+'s: I wrote excellent exams. In fact, the professors wrote nothing but great comments but on each one there was like one question where I did average and those little problems took me from an A to a B+. Those exams were "easier" than last semester and the curve was tighter and one little mistake made the difference, unfortunately.

On my two B's: On one, I was lucky to get a B. My crim law professor said that he wanted us to use both the MPC and the common law on the exam "to show that we really get the material." The exam was completely focused on the MPC with some "extra points" going for a little bit of common law analysis. I hardly memorized the MPC and had to scratch and claw my way to that B, which was above median, and it was actually a success based on my mistake of studying the wrong way.
The other B was because it was the first time that professor had ever used an open book/note approach and it was the easiest exam of the semester. Apparently she did not know how to really write a difficult exam for open note kind of exams. I wish it had been closed notes. I looked at the checklist and the points I missed were based on not using specific terminology that she favored, such as "substantial justice and fair play" when I said something equal but used the verbage from the E&E. Again, my fault and I will explain later why this is so.

My f'ing C+: the hardest grading professor at the school. Whereas the other section's torts prof. curved to a 2.8, this guy curved to like a 2.38 or 2.4. Median was a C+, haha. I absolutely crushed this exam all over the place and was completely on pace for an A or A- but I actually got a freaking 0, that's right, no points, on the biggest essay on the exam. :shock: This professor actually fails students and takes great joy in giving students 0 points if they don't go down the exact path he wants us to, so I was probs. very fortunate to get a median grade here.



My thoughts: After reading my prof's comments closely, I see that I wrote another batch of top 95% exams.....yet didn't know the BLL as well as I should have and didn't focus as much as I did last semester on my class notes and the exact wording of phrases that rack up checklist points. My fault. I am happy to see that it wasn't my exam taking ability but instead my lack of preparation that did me in. I will definitely get back on track next semester. I missed a crap ton of class too which didn't help. Live and learn. :)[/quote][/quote][/quote]

How are you top ten percent with 2 B+ 2 Bs and a C+? Did you get a lot of As ur first semester?

sophie316
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby sophie316 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:53 pm

Man I did better second semester with substantially less work. Lesson...don't do work.

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A'nold
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby A'nold » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:59 pm

rbgrocio wrote:Congrats my friend. 8)

Oh, and just to put all of those nervous OL'ers who have been watching my progression at ease, my grades this semester are easily explainable (I just reviewed them and the prof. comments).

Keep in mind that my school curves to about a 2.67:

On a few of my B+'s: I wrote excellent exams. In fact, the professors wrote nothing but great comments but on each one there was like one question where I did average and those little problems took me from an A to a B+. Those exams were "easier" than last semester and the curve was tighter and one little mistake made the difference, unfortunately.

On my two B's: On one, I was lucky to get a B. My crim law professor said that he wanted us to use both the MPC and the common law on the exam "to show that we really get the material." The exam was completely focused on the MPC with some "extra points" going for a little bit of common law analysis. I hardly memorized the MPC and had to scratch and claw my way to that B, which was above median, and it was actually a success based on my mistake of studying the wrong way.
The other B was because it was the first time that professor had ever used an open book/note approach and it was the easiest exam of the semester. Apparently she did not know how to really write a difficult exam for open note kind of exams. I wish it had been closed notes. I looked at the checklist and the points I missed were based on not using specific terminology that she favored, such as "substantial justice and fair play" when I said something equal but used the verbage from the E&E. Again, my fault and I will explain later why this is so.

My f'ing C+: the hardest grading professor at the school. Whereas the other section's torts prof. curved to a 2.8, this guy curved to like a 2.38 or 2.4. Median was a C+, haha. I absolutely crushed this exam all over the place and was completely on pace for an A or A- but I actually got a freaking 0, that's right, no points, on the biggest essay on the exam. :shock: This professor actually fails students and takes great joy in giving students 0 points if they don't go down the exact path he wants us to, so I was probs. very fortunate to get a median grade here.



My thoughts: After reading my prof's comments closely, I see that I wrote another batch of top 95% exams.....yet didn't know the BLL as well as I should have and didn't focus as much as I did last semester on my class notes and the exact wording of phrases that rack up checklist points. My fault. I am happy to see that it wasn't my exam taking ability but instead my lack of preparation that did me in. I will definitely get back on track next semester. I missed a crap ton of class too which didn't help. Live and learn. :)
[/quote][/quote]

How are you top ten percent with 2 B+ 2 Bs and a C+? Did you get a lot of As ur first semester?[/quote]

Well, I got an A in a class that had more weight than all the others and I was ranked in the top 4% with a 3.5 after first semester. We have very low grades at our school. One of my professors curved to like a 2.35 or something this semester.

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AlasLavinia
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby AlasLavinia » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:03 am

My final grade of the semester just posted! I was top 10% last semester. This semester, I upped my GPA by .06 (all A's and a B in a class I thought was a sure thing, oh well). Still waiting to see my rank, etc.

I feel like I have a huge weight lifted off my shoulders, because LR and a school honors ap were both riding on this!

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rayiner
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby rayiner » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:11 am

Fears justified, though I still managed to stay in a decent range. My transcript looks hilarious though: shittastic grades in con law and LRW dragging down an otherwise glorious GPA. I think I'd have preferred to just got all good but not great grades instead of that.

markymark
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby markymark » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:44 am

rayiner wrote:Fears justified, though I still managed to stay in a decent range. My transcript looks hilarious though: shittastic grades in con law and LRW dragging down an otherwise glorious GPA. I think I'd have preferred to just got all good but not great grades instead of that.


+1

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vanwinkle
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:07 pm

rayiner wrote:Fears justified, though I still managed to stay in a decent range. My transcript looks hilarious though: shittastic grades in con law and LRW dragging down an otherwise glorious GPA. I think I'd have preferred to just got all good but not great grades instead of that.

This gives me a glimmer of hope, because the only grade I have so far is a shittastic Con Law grade. If my others end up glorious I could still pull this thing off.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:51 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
rayiner wrote:Fears justified, though I still managed to stay in a decent range. My transcript looks hilarious though: shittastic grades in con law and LRW dragging down an otherwise glorious GPA. I think I'd have preferred to just got all good but not great grades instead of that.

This gives me a glimmer of hope, because the only grade I have so far is a shittastic Con Law grade. If my others end up glorious I could still pull this thing off.


I know exactly how you guys feel. In the wake of LRW, all I do is hope and pray for the best kind of news in my classes remaining. I think of the people who were there for me every single day, and I want to make them proud.

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dresden doll
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:52 pm

I keep reading this thread in hopes of getting incentivized to fucking study for my remaining exams.

So far, it's not working.

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98234872348
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:32 pm

betasteve wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I keep reading this thread in hopes of getting incentivized to fucking study for my remaining exams.

So far, it's not working.

This thread may be better: [strike]http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119157[/strike] viewtopic.php?f=23&t=118269

Fixed.

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dresden doll
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:34 pm

mistergoft wrote:
betasteve wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I keep reading this thread in hopes of getting incentivized to fucking study for my remaining exams.

So far, it's not working.

This thread may be better: [strike]http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119157[/strike] viewtopic.php?f=23&t=118269

Fixed.


I like Steve's thread better. :(

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98234872348
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:39 pm

dresden doll wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
betasteve wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I keep reading this thread in hopes of getting incentivized to fucking study for my remaining exams.

So far, it's not working.

This thread may be better: [strike]http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119157[/strike] viewtopic.php?f=23&t=118269

Fixed.


I like Steve's thread better. :(

I can't disagree with this. :evil:

But you can't deny that ITE justifies studying hard.

270910
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby 270910 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:22 pm

mistergoft wrote:
But you can't deny that ITE justifies studying [strike]hard[/strike] smart.


FTFY.

And I acknowledge that smart encompasses hard, but especially with 0Ls at fever pitch ready to read every SCOTUS case since 1928 to prep for LS, it's worth acknowledging that pure effort isn't (and likely never was) enough.

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mallard
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby mallard » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:23 pm

I'm not sure I buy that ITE justifies ridiculous gunning, but it seems to have had that effect.

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98234872348
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:02 pm

mallard wrote:I'm not sure I buy that ITE justifies ridiculous gunning, but it seems to have had that effect.

If you mean to suggest that students would be better served studying smart than spending every waking hour in the library, I agree with you. However, grades (and of course, the school you attend) are extremely important and are virtually the sole determinant of your immediate career prospects; this being true, I can't see how, when job prospects are bleak and firms are hesitant to offer even a meager amount of SA positions that attempting to maximize your first year performance isn't entirely justified by studying hard. Unless, of course, by gunning you are referring to the class participation variety of gunning, which I totally agree with.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:53 am

OperaSoprano wrote:I think of the people who were there for me every single day, and I want to make them proud.

What you need to realize is that those people are already proud of you.

(I realize I'm saying this as someone with the same problem, but it's true.)

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:15 am

vanwinkle wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I think of the people who were there for me every single day, and I want to make them proud.

What you need to realize is that those people are already proud of you.

(I realize I'm saying this as someone with the same problem, but it's true.)


It's so sweet of you to say this. If it's true of me, it's certainly true of you. I've been seriously honored by the kindness people have shown me, and it doesn't seem to matter to them what my grades are. I feel appreciated and remarkably lucky, and that makes the waiting easier.

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youpiiz
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby youpiiz » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:17 am

thats like the sweetest convo on tls ive ever seen.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Pennoyer: irrational fears of 1Ls who did well last semester

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:25 am

youpiiz wrote:thats like the sweetest convo on tls ive ever seen.


youpiiz!

<3




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