forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

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mollie
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forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby mollie » Tue May 04, 2010 9:49 pm

on a personal jurisdiction question--how screwed am I?

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A'nold
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby A'nold » Tue May 04, 2010 9:55 pm

mollie wrote:on a personal jurisdiction question--how screwed am I?


So, that's not a big analysis thing, right? I mean, yeah, you lost points, but I wonder how many points a professor gives for hitting that point anyway.

270910
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby 270910 » Tue May 04, 2010 9:55 pm

Optimist: You'd be shocked how common doctrinal mistakes like this are. People leave points on the table all the time. You can make pretty big errors and compete for As - the problem is you can't make very many. Just doing that, on your average time-pressured issue spotting law school exam, is going to hardly be fatal.

Pessimist: PWN PWN PWN DEBTOR'S PRISN

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dresden doll
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 04, 2010 9:55 pm

Would depend on how many other students made the same mistake.

270910
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby 270910 » Tue May 04, 2010 9:57 pm

A'nold wrote:
mollie wrote:on a personal jurisdiction question--how screwed am I?


So, that's not a big analysis thing, right? I mean, yeah, you lost points, but I wonder how many points a professor gives for hitting that point anyway.


Pulling numbers out of my ass: Big Jx issue spotter is 1/3 of the exam, requires close analysis of SMJ/PJ/Venue... PJ is going to require careful constitutional analysis, possibly for multiple defendants... random ass guess: close analysis of the long arm statute was 4-5% of the points on the exam.

mollie
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby mollie » Tue May 04, 2010 10:06 pm

agh, was rushing to finish the exam and in my haste overlooked the long arm. Basically, the context was arguing over a 12(b)(2) and I skipped right to saying no minimum contacts under Intl. Shoe.

nickwar
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby nickwar » Tue May 04, 2010 10:07 pm

Well you can't analyze personal jurisdiction without a long-arm statute, so I'd say if you miss the first part of the question the rest of your analysis is flawed.

You will probably miss the entire question.

270910
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby 270910 » Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 pm

nickwar wrote:Well you can't analyze personal jurisdiction without a long-arm statute, so I'd say if you miss the first part of the question the rest of your analysis is flawed.

You will probably miss the entire question.


No. Don't be stupid. The harder / more interesting part of PJ is the minimum contacts and substantial justice and wah wah wah part of the test. The constitutional issue is entirely separate from the long arm statute, other than the fact that the long arm statute can't go beyond constitutional limits and both must be satisfied for PJ to exist.

hithere
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby hithere » Tue May 04, 2010 10:31 pm

At this point, you just need to hope that your classmates did poorly on that exam.

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A'nold
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby A'nold » Tue May 04, 2010 10:47 pm

disco_barred wrote:
nickwar wrote:Well you can't analyze personal jurisdiction without a long-arm statute, so I'd say if you miss the first part of the question the rest of your analysis is flawed.

You will probably miss the entire question.


No. Don't be stupid. The harder / more interesting part of PJ is the minimum contacts and substantial justice and wah wah wah part of the test. The constitutional issue is entirely separate from the long arm statute, other than the fact that the long arm statute can't go beyond constitutional limits and both must be satisfied for PJ to exist.


Disco = credited, everyone else = ..........OL's? There's not really any analysis for long arm statutes, unless your prof. gives you an example where you have to determine if the long arm statute overreaches or something.

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dresden doll
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 04, 2010 11:01 pm

A'nold wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
nickwar wrote:Well you can't analyze personal jurisdiction without a long-arm statute, so I'd say if you miss the first part of the question the rest of your analysis is flawed.

You will probably miss the entire question.


No. Don't be stupid. The harder / more interesting part of PJ is the minimum contacts and substantial justice and wah wah wah part of the test. The constitutional issue is entirely separate from the long arm statute, other than the fact that the long arm statute can't go beyond constitutional limits and both must be satisfied for PJ to exist.


Disco = credited, everyone else = ..........OL's? There's not really any analysis for long arm statutes, unless your prof. gives you an example where you have to determine if the long arm statute overreaches or something.


Not me, buddy. Not a crazy remark I made there either. I did well in Contracts after writing an objectively awful test merely because others were even more clueless than myself.

It's all about the curve.

jetlagz28
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby jetlagz28 » Tue May 04, 2010 11:02 pm

Drop out

Action Jackson
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby Action Jackson » Tue May 04, 2010 11:02 pm

Civ Pro sucks. :P

Action Jackson
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby Action Jackson » Tue May 04, 2010 11:03 pm

jetlagz28 wrote:Drop out

This made me lol.

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rayiner
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby rayiner » Tue May 04, 2010 11:25 pm

disco_barred wrote:Optimist: You'd be shocked how common doctrinal mistakes like this are. People leave points on the table all the time. You can make pretty big errors and compete for As - the problem is you can't make very many. Just doing that, on your average time-pressured issue spotting law school exam, is going to hardly be fatal.

Pessimist: PWN PWN PWN DEBTOR'S PRISN


This. My best exams last semester still quite full of holes, although more misapplication of the laws than missed issues. One of my "good" exams was actually pretty bad: my professor kept using the word "weird" when I went over it with him. :lol:

270910
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby 270910 » Tue May 04, 2010 11:40 pm

betasteve wrote:The only caveat is if jx wasn't granted by the long arm, your analysis is done. The court would have completely stopped at that point and never have gotten to the constitutional test. However, it is pretty unlikely that is the case... So should be fine.


Exactly. And even if it was like 70/30 the long arm statute didn't apply, you'd still get points for analyzing constitutional pj, so all would be hunky-dory.

Let this be a lesson though: CHECK YOU CHECKLISTS. You'll still miss things from time to time, but if you have a big list in front of you where you literally check off boxes you're going to save yourself from dumb mistakes and get better grades.

Bankhead
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby Bankhead » Tue May 04, 2010 11:53 pm

Holy shit you are fucked.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Wed May 05, 2010 12:26 am

rayiner wrote:
disco_barred wrote:Optimist: You'd be shocked how common doctrinal mistakes like this are. People leave points on the table all the time. You can make pretty big errors and compete for As - the problem is you can't make very many. Just doing that, on your average time-pressured issue spotting law school exam, is going to hardly be fatal.

Pessimist: PWN PWN PWN DEBTOR'S PRISN


This. My best exams last semester still quite full of holes, although more misapplication of the laws than missed issues. One of my "good" exams was actually pretty bad: my professor kept using the word "weird" when I went over it with him. :lol:

Agreed on both.

My Civ Pro professor last semester told us that there were about 160-180 possible points on any of his exams. If we managed hit 100, he told us we should expect to book the class.

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enygma
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby enygma » Wed May 05, 2010 1:27 am

your biggest mistake is worrying about it. especially when you've got more finals to take. this one's over, you have to move on to the next.

stinger35
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby stinger35 » Wed May 05, 2010 2:34 am

I dont have the patience to read all the responses right now, just wanted to make you feel better by telling you a story


For my contracts exam, I got "at least 10 points higher" than any other student who received an A. When I went through many parts of my exam with the professor he explicitly showed me that other students hit more issues than me, even ones who didn't get A's, but I got double, or more, points for my analysis. That (apparently) is key. The fact that you forgot it is not dispositive. My professor this semester showed what points correlated to what answers and the easy ones, such as long arm, were pretty small. The points may hurt, but trust me, you aren't screwed, if you did well on everything else.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed May 05, 2010 2:40 am

stinger35 wrote:I dont have the patience to read all the responses right now, just wanted to make you feel better by telling you a story


For my contracts exam, I got "at least 10 points higher" than any other student who received an A. When I went through many parts of my exam with the professor he explicitly showed me that other students hit more issues than me, even ones who didn't get A's, but I got double, or more, points for my analysis. That (apparently) is key. The fact that you forgot it is not dispositive. My professor this semester showed what points correlated to what answers and the easy ones, such as long arm, were pretty small. The points may hurt, but trust me, you aren't screwed, if you did well on everything else.

Depends on the professor. Some care about issues more than analysis.

270910
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby 270910 » Wed May 05, 2010 8:35 am

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
stinger35 wrote:I dont have the patience to read all the responses right now, just wanted to make you feel better by telling you a story


For my contracts exam, I got "at least 10 points higher" than any other student who received an A. When I went through many parts of my exam with the professor he explicitly showed me that other students hit more issues than me, even ones who didn't get A's, but I got double, or more, points for my analysis. That (apparently) is key. The fact that you forgot it is not dispositive. My professor this semester showed what points correlated to what answers and the easy ones, such as long arm, were pretty small. The points may hurt, but trust me, you aren't screwed, if you did well on everything else.

Depends on the professor. Some care about issues more than analysis.


It's not as simple as caring more about issues or analysis, it depends how the exam is set up. But on almost any exam, a single 'issue' can be worth multiple points depending on how you argue it, so it's possible to 'spot' fewer issues and get more points.

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McBean
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby McBean » Wed May 05, 2010 10:00 am

No Jx question would include a long-arm that was determinative. Few would include one that is worth analyzing. It's CivPro class, not a Con law or Legislation. My CivPro professor always threw in that the long arm allowed jurisdiction to the Constitutional limit.

You probably did not miss an issue, you missed a sentence.

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rbgrocio
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby rbgrocio » Wed May 05, 2010 10:17 am

My final was soo long that I forgot putting quite a few things.... The time was killing me!

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samiseaborn
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Re: forgot to talk about the long arm statute on my civ pro exam

Postby samiseaborn » Wed May 05, 2010 10:23 am

rbgrocio wrote:My final was soo long that I forgot putting quite a few things.... The time was killing me!


same here. I was writing until the last second and have spent the last day wondering: how could there not have been anything about juries on that test?? how did I not write about forum non-convenience anywhere?! I'm hoping they weren't big things because I really did cover tons of other material :(




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