Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

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traehekat
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby traehekat » Mon May 03, 2010 11:38 am

Thanks DB for the words of wisdom.

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macattaq
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby macattaq » Mon May 03, 2010 1:44 pm

acdisagod wrote:
macattaq wrote:Dear 0L(s), I think I realized one of the best things you can do to "get ahead". Apper alluded to this in a post somewhere, and I just made this realization yesterday. I have noticed a trend in my exam-taking, my studying, and my academic career in general. I have noticed it in the sports I played and quit, the hobbies I took up and dropped, and I can contrast my prior experiences with the things I do now. I have spent my entire life, really, rushing through one project to get to the next. If it didn't come easily, if I couldn't easily identify and solve a problem, if something didn't come to me immediately, I simply guessed at the answer and quit.

Why is this relevant?

Because if I had taken the time to look at my habits and prior experiences before starting law school, my 1L experience probably would have been quite different. Fortunately, my first exam is tomorrow, so I can be mindful of this over the next two weeks, in order to ensure that I don't repeat prior patterns of behavior. But this is only effective going forward.

So what I am advocating to you all, 0Ls, is that you use some of your time off to 'know thyself'. Seriously. Assess your strengths and weaknesses, root out hubris and arrogance, and look for patterns in your behaviors. Take time to really get to know your helpful and harmful behaviors. Figure out how you react under stress, and what your tendencies are when you have downtime. I'm not going to tell you that you should get rid of the harmful behaviors, or develop new ones. But I am saying, that if you know your weaknesses, and can rely on your strengths, you won't be unintentionally shooting yourself in the foot as you try to make progress. Oh yes, and learn to be patient with yourself. It is easy to become frustrated while learning legal concepts, because it is unlike anything you have done before.


Did you read split infinity?


No. I've only read the Incarnations of Immortality series.

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traehekat
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby traehekat » Mon May 03, 2010 9:47 pm

Posted from another thread.

vexion wrote:If I could do my first semester over again...
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19378


HERE IS THE PHANTOM THREAD I WAS REFERRING TO!

PKSebben wrote:I'd read the E&E's before the semester, just as an overview.


riseagainst wrote:Hit the E&E's earlier.


Katkins wrote:
I'd read the E&E's before the semester, just as an overview.


Absolutely, unequivocally TCR. I was told to do this before law school, I didn't do it, and that was stupid. 0Ls reading this: THIS IS NOT A JOKE. It is the best thing you can do for yourself, in my opinion.


Doesn't exactly prove my point, but at least I know I'm not nuts.

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Birdman
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby Birdman » Mon May 03, 2010 9:56 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77628

This thread deals with prepping also.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Mon May 03, 2010 9:56 pm

traehekat wrote:Posted from another thread.

vexion wrote:If I could do my first semester over again...
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19378


HERE IS THE PHANTOM THREAD I WAS REFERRING TO!

PKSebben wrote:I'd read the E&E's before the semester, just as an overview.


riseagainst wrote:Hit the E&E's earlier.


Katkins wrote:
I'd read the E&E's before the semester, just as an overview.


Absolutely, unequivocally TCR. I was told to do this before law school, I didn't do it, and that was stupid. 0Ls reading this: THIS IS NOT A JOKE. It is the best thing you can do for yourself, in my opinion.


Doesn't exactly prove my point, but at least I know I'm not nuts.

Any advice given after the first semester, is only slightly better than taking advice from 0Ls. Plenty of this year's 1Ls said similar things and they all changed their tune. You are, in fact, nuts. :mrgreen:

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traehekat
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby traehekat » Mon May 03, 2010 10:01 pm

Birdman wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77628

This thread deals with prepping also.


Thanks, never seen it.

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romothesavior
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 10:09 pm

http://www.top-law-schools.com/planet-law-school.html

The author of this little piece starts referring to the author of the book as "Mr. Finch" in the last paragraph. Pretty sure the name of the guy who wrote this book is named Atticus Falcon, not Atticus Finch like from "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Or am I missing something?

270910
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby 270910 » Mon May 03, 2010 10:10 pm

romothesavior wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/planet-law-school.html

The author of this little piece starts referring to the author of the book as "Mr. Finch" in the last paragraph. Pretty sure the name of the guy who wrote this book is named Atticus Falcon, not Atticus Finch like from "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Or am I missing something?


It was a typo. Gold star?

0Ls: Substantive prep is stupid and won't help you.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Mon May 03, 2010 10:12 pm

RUQRU wrote:
... until you can make the counter-intuitive leap that is required to go from being scared of law school to understanding what you need to do to beat law school, you'll just be increasing your stress without measurably increasing your ability to obtain solid grades.


OK. I'll bite. What is needed to "beat law school"? What are the rules of the game?

You say to make a counter-intuitive leap. To what or where?

Exams are everything, yes? So not briefing, not falling for all the make-work they throw at you and just do the all practice exams you can (so long as you have real answers to verify against). Is that part of the game?

Thanks again for writing such informative answers.

This is like asking what is needed to understand what's needed to bag a date with Halle Berry. Sure, you need to be good looking but millions of guys meet that. Therefore, there must be some other necessity. Who knows what it is? It's probably different for every guy. Law school and what's needed is different for every student. If you don't believe me, take a look at the great disparity in advice given. NYU1L says to read hornbooks, E&Es, briefbooks, policy books, and not the casebook. Arrow says to read cases and make very small briefs. There is no consensus.

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MURPH
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby MURPH » Mon May 03, 2010 10:14 pm

If anybody is going to ignore all the good advice here and follow PLS's 3 month prep plan, you can PM me. I am going to start on or around May 16th and an email study partner might be helpful.

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romothesavior
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 10:15 pm

disco_barred wrote:
romothesavior wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/planet-law-school.html

The author of this little piece starts referring to the author of the book as "Mr. Finch" in the last paragraph. Pretty sure the name of the guy who wrote this book is named Atticus Falcon, not Atticus Finch like from "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Or am I missing something?


It was a typo. Gold star?

0Ls: Substantive prep is stupid and won't help you.


I'm sure it was a typo. And I'm not trying to be dickish by pointing out the typo (I hate those kind of people), but I just think it is a pretty funny typo so I thought I would point it out.

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traehekat
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby traehekat » Mon May 03, 2010 10:16 pm

romothesavior wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
romothesavior wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/planet-law-school.html

The author of this little piece starts referring to the author of the book as "Mr. Finch" in the last paragraph. Pretty sure the name of the guy who wrote this book is named Atticus Falcon, not Atticus Finch like from "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Or am I missing something?


It was a typo. Gold star?

0Ls: Substantive prep is stupid and won't help you.


I'm sure it was a typo. And I'm not trying to be dickish by pointing out the typo (I hate those kind of people), but I just think it is a pretty funny typo so I thought I would point it out.


If you enjoy typos, be sure to read PLS then.

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vexion
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby vexion » Mon May 03, 2010 10:20 pm

MURPH wrote:If anybody is going to ignore all the good advice here and follow PLS's 3 month prep plan, you can PM me. I am going to start on or around May 16th and an email study partner might be helpful.

I hope this is a typo.

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romothesavior
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 10:22 pm

traehekat wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
romothesavior wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/planet-law-school.html

The author of this little piece starts referring to the author of the book as "Mr. Finch" in the last paragraph. Pretty sure the name of the guy who wrote this book is named Atticus Falcon, not Atticus Finch like from "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Or am I missing something?


It was a typo. Gold star?

0Ls: Substantive prep is stupid and won't help you.


I'm sure it was a typo. And I'm not trying to be dickish by pointing out the typo (I hate those kind of people), but I just think it is a pretty funny typo so I thought I would point it out.


If you enjoy typos, be sure to read PLS then.


Ha no thanks. I plan to spend my summer:

1) Working 50+ hours a week
2) Eating Chipotle burritos
3) Mackin' on this smokin' hot girl from my hometown who is shockingly showing some early interest in me
4) Golfing 4 times a week
5) Spending the remainder of my time with an X-Box controller in my hands or sleeping

There will definitely not be any LS prep going on.

270910
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby 270910 » Mon May 03, 2010 10:22 pm

MURPH wrote:If anybody is going to ignore all the good advice here and follow PLS's 3 month prep plan, you can PM me. I am going to start on or around May 16th and an email study partner might be helpful.


--ImageRemoved--

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traehekat
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby traehekat » Mon May 03, 2010 10:26 pm

romothesavior wrote:Ha no thanks. I plan to spend my summer:

1) Working 50+ hours a week lame
2) Eating Chipotle burritos i prefer the soft tacos
3) Mackin' on this smokin' hot girl from my hometown who is shockingly showing some early interest in me already hit that
4) Golfing 4 times a week man i really want to take up golf, i suppose i may need the aforementioned job though first...
5) Spending the remainder of my time with an X-Box controller in my hands or sleeping COD? bring the ruckus

There will definitely not be any LS prep going on.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Mon May 03, 2010 10:27 pm

disco_barred wrote:
MURPH wrote:If anybody is going to ignore all the good advice here and follow PLS's 3 month prep plan, you can PM me. I am going to start on or around May 16th and an email study partner might be helpful.


--ImageRemoved--

168.152765--exactly.

270910
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby 270910 » Mon May 03, 2010 10:34 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
MURPH wrote:If anybody is going to ignore all the good advice here and follow PLS's 3 month prep plan, you can PM me. I am going to start on or around May 16th and an email study partner might be helpful.


--ImageRemoved--

168.152765--exactly.


Yeah. I tried to take it a new direction, and I kind of grinned but didn't laugh heavily. I think it's an interesting concept, but it didn't fit perfectly here. Still, it needed a meme, and none of MURPH's text really gave me two lines to work with :-/

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Mon May 03, 2010 11:04 pm

disco_barred wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
MURPH wrote:If anybody is going to ignore all the good advice here and follow PLS's 3 month prep plan, you can PM me. I am going to start on or around May 16th and an email study partner might be helpful.


--ImageRemoved--

168.152765--exactly.


Yeah. I tried to take it a new direction, and I kind of grinned but didn't laugh heavily. I think it's an interesting concept, but it didn't fit perfectly here. Still, it needed a meme, and none of MURPH's text really gave me two lines to work with :-/

Anything on that kid with the clarinet is funny, the awkward boner guy too.

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RUQRU
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby RUQRU » Wed May 05, 2010 6:30 am

Now for those who have no exposure to "The Law" this book by Nolo Press might be a good read before classes begin. It is aimed at the non-lawyer and provides a great overview of law and legal research:

Legal Research

How to Find & Understand the Law
by: Attorney Stephen Elias , Attorney Susan Levinkind
Published: September 2009, ed. 15
ISBN 9781413310528
Pages 400 pp
http://www.nolo.com/products/legal-research-LRES.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141331 ... ss_product

1. Understanding the Basics of the Law

* What Is the Law?
* Sources of Law
* State Versus Federal Law
* The Court System

2. Finding Legal Resources

* Where Legal Information Is Located
* Primary Sources and Secondary Sources
* Looking for Legal Resources on the Internet
* Legal Research Websites

3. Identifying Your Legal Issue

* How to Approach Your Research
* Step 1: Is the Issue Civil or Criminal?
* Step 2: Figuring Out the Area of Law You’re Researching
* Step 3: What Are the Resources That Will Help You Find What You Need?
* Step 4: Figure Out Your Legal Research Question

4. Finding and Using Secondary Sources

* Online Resources
* Self-Help Legal Books
* Legal Encyclopedias
* Form Books
* Practice Manuals
* Continuing Legal Education Publications
* Law Reviews and Other Legal Periodicals
* Specialized Loose-Leaf Materials
* Treatises and Monographs
* Restatements of the Law

5. Finding and Using Constitutions, Statutes, Regulations, and Ordinances

* Finding and Using Constitutions
* Finding Federal Statutes
* Finding State Statutes
* Understanding and Using Federal and State Statutes
* Finding and Using Regulations
* Finding and Using Procedural Statutes and Rules
* Finding and Using Local Laws or Ordinances

6. Finding Cases

* Using Citations to Find Cases
* Finding Cases on the Internet
* Finding Cases in the Law Library
* The Next Step

7. Using Case Law

* What Is a Case?
* How Cases Are Published
* How Cases Affect Later Disputes

8. Validating Your Research

* Making Sure It’s “Good Law”
* How to Shepardize a Case
* Shepardizing Statutes
* Using Shepard’s for Research

9. Organizing and Putting Your Legal Research to Use

* Organizing Your Research
* How to Write a Legal Memorandum
* Going to Court
* Finding and Working With a Lawyer

10. Research Hypothetical and Memorandum

* Research Problem: Alimony Hypothetical (West Virginia)
* Facts
* How to Approach This Question

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zeth006
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby zeth006 » Sat May 22, 2010 4:19 am

macattaq wrote:Dear 0L(s), I think I realized one of the best things you can do to "get ahead". Apper alluded to this in a post somewhere, and I just made this realization yesterday. I have noticed a trend in my exam-taking, my studying, and my academic career in general. I have noticed it in the sports I played and quit, the hobbies I took up and dropped, and I can contrast my prior experiences with the things I do now. I have spent my entire life, really, rushing through one project to get to the next. If it didn't come easily, if I couldn't easily identify and solve a problem, if something didn't come to me immediately, I simply guessed at the answer and quit.

Why is this relevant?

Because if I had taken the time to look at my habits and prior experiences before starting law school, my 1L experience probably would have been quite different. Fortunately, my first exam is tomorrow, so I can be mindful of this over the next two weeks, in order to ensure that I don't repeat prior patterns of behavior. But this is only effective going forward.

So what I am advocating to you all, 0Ls, is that you use some of your time off to 'know thyself'. Seriously. Assess your strengths and weaknesses, root out hubris and arrogance, and look for patterns in your behaviors. Take time to really get to know your helpful and harmful behaviors. Figure out how you react under stress, and what your tendencies are when you have downtime. I'm not going to tell you that you should get rid of the harmful behaviors, or develop new ones. But I am saying, that if you know your weaknesses, and can rely on your strengths, you won't be unintentionally shooting yourself in the foot as you try to make progress. Oh yes, and learn to be patient with yourself. It is easy to become frustrated while learning legal concepts, because it is unlike anything you have done before.


+1,000,000,000 and TITCR

Even though this post is from days ago, now is probably the best time to relax and reflect before heading off to [strike]hell[/strike] law school. I've been spending the last few months reflecting upon the whirl of experiences, achievements, and disappointments that passed by from one of freshman year in college. I think back to a lot of the right moves I made on top of a lot of the wrong moves not just in academics, but in my social and spiritual life. I think this is where journaling intermittently might do some good.

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Hannibal
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby Hannibal » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:55 pm

I've been reading PLSII for the past few days and I'm glad I found this thread.

270910
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby 270910 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:12 am

Hannibal wrote:I've been reading PLSII for the past few days and I'm glad I found this thread.


This thread is glad it found you too!

*tossels your hair lovingly*

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:45 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Hannibal wrote:I've been reading PLSII for the past few days and I'm glad I found this thread.


This thread is glad it found you too!

*tossels your hair lovingly*

EWW, fucking, EWW!

petrovovitch@
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Re: Planet Law School/0L Prep Question

Postby petrovovitch@ » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:24 pm

Yes. You can fall for make work and still do well, but it's much more likely to distract you from what you should be doing.

The rules are that you need to know how to get points on exams. Professors all vary a little, but mostly it comes down to applying law to fact and building arguments. Spending effort practicing that and thinking about how to do it with the material discussed in class is going to give you an edge.

There's a gulfing chasm of a difference between 'the exam is everything - thus I shall read 10 hornbooks / subject and 2 before class begins' and 'the exam is everything - thus I must spend effort learning what makes a good exam vs. a bad one, what material I actually need to get out of class / reading, and what I can do to practice'.

2L year the people who did best in law school get stuck on law review, with a 10++ hour per week commitment and huge amounts of stress relating to job searches, doing work for professors, writing articles, etc. They still maintain good grades, because no matter the subject there's no need to get a substantive head start.

Two more points about the rules of the game:

1) It's easier to say what is useless (over-hornbooking, briefing, worrying about cold calls, etc.) than it is to say what will get you good grades consistently

2) Building on that, you can't distill what's important, say it to a 0L, and have it click. If you ever 'see the light' it probably won't come until the case method, socraticism, practice exams, and simultaneously learning the contours of 3-5 doctrines first semester really highlights the meaning of phrases like 'apply law to fact' 'irac isn't necessary' 'argue both sides' 'spot the issue' etc. Books like getting to maybe are gold, but there's greatly diminished meaning to derive from it without a substantial exposure to all of the aspects of learning the law as a 1L. (Concrete tip: read getting to maybe at least once more during law school, hopefully near thanksgiving, even if you read it as a 0L).


i don't understand why i can't do this before the semester? i can't glean doctrine from casebooks/hornbooks then practice writing exams? is it because there's no one to check the validity of my arguments?

i don't know about anyone else but i did pure math for undergrad and we had to do just this: write proofs (read: arguments) on the exams. we had no clue which proofs were going to be asked about and so it was similarly very difficult to "prepare." i still did it. i proved everything i could that was in the book and vetted my own arguments. sometimes i didn't catch the flaw in my argument and sometimes i did. some times i hit gold and proved something that was on the exam. regardless i became a better mathematician because i put the theory (read: doctrine) through it's paces.

so why can't i do this for ls?




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