I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

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goosey
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I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby goosey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:40 pm

..And I wasn't even good at it then.

I've searched this forum dozens of times over, read most of the info in the 0L common questions thead, and still have not found a thread about HOW to outline. Perhaps it is so basic and elementary that nobody has needed it spelled out for them before. But I, for one, have absolutely no idea how to outline. Even if I was given simple reading material, I would not know how to outline it..and that scares me because apparently outlines are what my exams will be built on..and I am assuming nobody will be there to teach me this skill once classes start.

As a philosophy major, I found a study method that worked for me when reading books that almost seemed like a different language: I would read the books and take notes while I read it, making any connections, points, or even random ideas I thought about as I went along. Later, I would type these notes--for some reason this helped me absorb the material and TRULY understand it. After that, I could basically just study from those computer notes by reading them a few times over because by then, I knew the material enough to not need any hardcore studying.

I know law school will be different, but would this method be a huge waste of time?

Also, how and where can I learn to outline?? I feel like I'm 20 years behind.

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apper123
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby apper123 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:41 pm

Edit - I guess you read it, but you'll be fine.
Last edited by apper123 on Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:42 pm

I had never made a serious outline until law school and I think I did just fine.

Don't worry about it

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apper123
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby apper123 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:43 pm

This may come off wrong, but law school is the first time I ever really studied or applied myself 100 % academically in my life. I coasted through college and kind of had a self-revelation last summer and changed a lot about my life, including my work ethic and study habits. It's been a bit of a rough road adjusting, but I've done well and learned a lot in a short period of time. You'll be fine I'm sure. You already have a good work ethic it seems.

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pany1985
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby pany1985 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:56 pm

I'm also a recently-reformed slacker. My test preparation method prior to law school was to not bother doing anything until a day or two before the exam and then read all the stuff I was supposed to have been doing over the last few months. It wasn't the best idea, but I still got As and Bs, so it wasn't really that bad either. You'll definitely have to do more work in law school, but it's manageable. The last few weeks of the semester tend to suck, but outlining comes pretty naturally as long as your professor isn't completely disorganized... and if your professor is, you can find other outlines and use them as a guide for the sequencing of your own. That's what I did last semester and things went fine. I'll have to wait and see about this one...

Renzo
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby Renzo » Sat May 01, 2010 12:00 am

goosey wrote: I would read the books and take notes while I read it, making any connections, points, or even random ideas I thought about as I went along. Later, I would type these notes--for some reason this helped me absorb the material and TRULY understand it. After that, I could basically just study from those computer notes by reading them a few times over because by then, I knew the material enough to not need any hardcore studying.


This pretty much defines outlining, if you add one step. Take all your class notes, and all your notes from your readings, and as you go through them, edit them down to as concise a statement of the material as makes sense to you. Add where it helps you remember things that you struggle with, abbreviate/shorten/omit things that seem obvious. Go through your notes like this several times, and you'll know the material--you'll also have happened to have made an outline in the process.

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mac.empress
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby mac.empress » Sat May 01, 2010 12:08 am

You don't have to outline at all.

I outlined last semester. It took too much time to do. My study method in UG was similar to yours now and that's what I've reverted to. I learn that way. Don't knock what works for you.

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apper123
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby apper123 » Sat May 01, 2010 12:12 am

Renzo wrote:
goosey wrote: I would read the books and take notes while I read it, making any connections, points, or even random ideas I thought about as I went along. Later, I would type these notes--for some reason this helped me absorb the material and TRULY understand it. After that, I could basically just study from those computer notes by reading them a few times over because by then, I knew the material enough to not need any hardcore studying.


This pretty much defines outlining, if you add one step. Take all your class notes, and all your notes from your readings, and as you go through them, edit them down to as concise a statement of the material as makes sense to you. Add where it helps you remember things that you struggle with, abbreviate/shorten/omit things that seem obvious. Go through your notes like this several times, and you'll know the material--you'll also have happened to have made an outline in the process.

Yeah. My outlines are a mess. They are disorganized and barely useful on exam day. It's just a way to force me to compile my notes and memorize stuff. The 2 classes I did the best in last year (near top grades in both classes) I did NOT outline, but I am doing more outlining this semester.

I make checklist outlines based off my crappy, unorganized larger ones. These are usually 10 pages or less (and the best ones are 2 pages), and they are the most useful. Example: for CrimLaw today I had a 2 page checklist. For each essay fact pattern I would read the fact pattern once, then read it again and take quick notes and then I would run down my checklist to check off which crimes had been committed (or I could argue had been committed) by each party. I then went to my notes/outline if I needed to to double check necessary elements, but looking at the outline itself wasn't super useful.

engineer
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby engineer » Sat May 01, 2010 1:23 am

Wow, this thread owns. I feel like I'm with normal people!

In college, I was [strike]reading[/strike] attempting to read some really, really dense material... here's a random excerpt from my D-for-diploma class:

The s-plane time constant for the real pole is τ. In order for the sampling to have negligible effect, T must be much less than τ. Thus for the real pole, the z-plane pole location will be in the vicinity of z = 1, since T/τ is much less than 1. For the complex pole, an additional requirement is that several samples be taken per cycle of the sinusoid, or that ωT < 1.


The only way that worked for me to comprehend this crap was do to practice problems over and over. I'd start a problem and set a time limit of 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, I'd use my notes to figure out how to solve it. I wouldn't stop until I solved it. Then I'd repeat the process over and over until I understood the material.

It still got me a D in Discrete Time Systems.

09042014
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 01, 2010 1:32 am

I'm not even sure what outlining means.

270910
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby 270910 » Sat May 01, 2010 7:30 am

Desert Fox wrote:I'm not even sure what outlining means.


So when you learn the law of ________, you're going to learn a massive body of doctrine that can be roughly organized. Easiest way to visualize this is contracts. What is a contracts course?

Well, you learn about contract formation. You learn about when the things a party does constitutes a legally enforceable deal or not. Then you learn about how courts interpret contracts, you learn about how they can be breached and when one party breaching excuses the obligations of the other. Finally you learn about remedies courts can impose and important exceptions.

So when it's all done, studying your notes from day one to the last day of the class won't give you a full understanding of The Course. The idea of the outline is that it requires at least a little bit of synthesis - you make a long document (10 pages is an extremely short outline, 100 pages tends to be considered long, anything inbetween I've heard of) and in some order or another list out the large themes and rules of the doctrine. Hopefully as you do so you see where elements impact one another (a court will consider what remedies are available when determining if a contract was formed or breached, even if it's not overt). The doctrinal areas all provide context for one another, and hopefully show some consistent objectives of the law. Criminal law has to make hard choices with respect to when to punish attempts, how to classify murders, how much conduct is necessary to label one a criminal, etc. Hopefully as you outline you see if not consistent outcomes consistent struggles in the policy choices made at each level.

So when all is said and done, you have a single large document that if done properly lists every rule covered in class in an organized manner, usually with reference to some or all cases and policy arguments for and against the various rules.

Central to understanding why a well constructed outline is different from a list of class notes would be the bizarness that is the case method. Usually you 'learn' by being assigned a case with NO information about why you were assigned a case. Then hopefully you figure out that the case either 1) Established a major legal principle, 2) demonstrates a major legal principle, or 3) provides historical context for the development of a rule, or 4) is an example of a minority rule or mangling of a legal principle. Which means some cases (International Shoe) are extremely important, some (Palsgraff) will be in most cases footnotes about doctrinal development. Some where there for you to see how a rule works (Many battle of the forms cases, many torts cases) and others to show you the opposite of what the rule usually is or should be (often very common in crim).

Hope that was helpful!

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Sat May 01, 2010 7:45 am

And if DF wants to see an example outline...

270910
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby 270910 » Sat May 01, 2010 7:48 am

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:And if DF wants to see an example outline...


They're actually all over the web. Pick a course title (torts, criminal law, civil procedure, property, constitutional law, contracts), append the word outline, and let google guide you.

This is the first hit for contracts outline, it's a fairly decent example - though everyone does it differently, and ideally you will A) do your own outlines and B) develop your own personal habits based on what is useful to you.

Here's that first google hit for reference: http://www.ilrg.com/download/cont5.rtf

RP1983
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby RP1983 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:34 am

Read Law School Confidential. It explains how to outilines, study for classes, brief, etc. Although I don't know if I will be doing the highlighting method for briefing.

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mac.empress
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby mac.empress » Mon May 03, 2010 6:27 pm

RP1983 wrote:[strike]Read Law School Confidential. It explains how to outilines, study for classes, brief, etc. Although I don't know if I will be doing the highlighting method for briefing.[/strike]

270910
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby 270910 » Mon May 03, 2010 6:30 pm

mac.empress wrote:
RP1983 wrote:[strike]Read Law School Confidential. It explains how to outilines, study for classes, brief, etc. Although I don't know if I will be doing the highlighting method for briefing.[/strike]


I agree with striking following any of LSC's advice in more than the most cursory manner, but I stand behind the book as one of the most interesting and indepth exposures to the law school process available. Read it from cover to cover and you'll have a good sense of how this all progresses - what the 1L classes are, the 3 separate job searches you may have to conduct while in law school, how the pecking order in legal education works, and what things like journals are really all about. It's solid as a story book, atrocious as a 'how-to' book.

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underachiever
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby underachiever » Mon May 03, 2010 6:33 pm

Get 2Ls and 3Ls past outlines for the class...kick back and relax, while taking notes in class....clean old outlines up and add ur notes 2 days before the final and read them over once or twice....go in and take final
...this is the way law school is done

engineer
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby engineer » Mon May 03, 2010 6:39 pm

underachiever wrote:Get 2Ls and 3Ls past outlines for the class...kick back and relax, while taking notes in class....clean old outlines up and add ur notes 2 days before the final and read them over once or twice....go in and take final
...this is the way law school is done


aka median'd...which isn't so bad for some classes

270910
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby 270910 » Mon May 03, 2010 6:43 pm

engineer wrote:
underachiever wrote:Get 2Ls and 3Ls past outlines for the class...kick back and relax, while taking notes in class....clean old outlines up and add ur notes 2 days before the final and read them over once or twice....go in and take final
...this is the way law school is done


aka median'd...which isn't so bad for some classes


You can do it wrong and get median'd, but it's hardly destining you to median all on its own.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Mon May 03, 2010 8:11 pm

RP1983 wrote:Read Law School Confidential. It explains how to outilines, study for classes, brief, etc. Although I don't know if I will be doing the highlighting method for briefing.

LOL @ 0L's GIVING OTHER 0L's ADVICE

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apper123
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby apper123 » Mon May 03, 2010 9:22 pm

RP1983 wrote:Read Law School Confidential. It explains how to outilines, study for classes, brief, etc. Although I don't know if I will be doing the highlighting method for briefing.

i briefed for 7 days into my first semester

i used the highlighter method

only 1 color though cause i dont like the multi-color highlighter packs

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Bustang
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby Bustang » Mon May 03, 2010 10:15 pm

That outline was amazingly frightening.

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rbgrocio
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby rbgrocio » Mon May 03, 2010 10:19 pm

*I outline everyday when I go home. Things are fresh in my mind. If I wait until reading period or even until a little bit before then, things that I wrote down in class do not make sense anymore. If you outline everyday, you can fully explain something that you wrote down in class using some key terms and abbreviations.

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BigA
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby BigA » Mon May 03, 2010 10:22 pm

goosey wrote:..And I wasn't even good at it then.

I've searched this forum dozens of times over, read most of the info in the 0L common questions thead, and still have not found a thread about HOW to outline. Perhaps it is so basic and elementary that nobody has needed it spelled out for them before. But I, for one, have absolutely no idea how to outline. Even if I was given simple reading material, I would not know how to outline it..and that scares me because apparently outlines are what my exams will be built on..and I am assuming nobody will be there to teach me this skill once classes start.

As a philosophy major, I found a study method that worked for me when reading books that almost seemed like a different language: I would read the books and take notes while I read it, making any connections, points, or even random ideas I thought about as I went along. Later, I would type these notes--for some reason this helped me absorb the material and TRULY understand it. After that, I could basically just study from those computer notes by reading them a few times over because by then, I knew the material enough to not need any hardcore studying.

I know law school will be different, but would this method be a huge waste of time?

Also, how and where can I learn to outline?? I feel like I'm 20 years behind.


+1.

I also balked at the term "outlining" and wondered what the heck this was. As a likely splitter, I would actually like to take a class or something on how to be good student, if such a thing exists

270910
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Re: I havent outlined since 4th grade social studies hw

Postby 270910 » Mon May 03, 2010 10:31 pm

BigA wrote:
goosey wrote:..And I wasn't even good at it then.

I've searched this forum dozens of times over, read most of the info in the 0L common questions thead, and still have not found a thread about HOW to outline. Perhaps it is so basic and elementary that nobody has needed it spelled out for them before. But I, for one, have absolutely no idea how to outline. Even if I was given simple reading material, I would not know how to outline it..and that scares me because apparently outlines are what my exams will be built on..and I am assuming nobody will be there to teach me this skill once classes start.

As a philosophy major, I found a study method that worked for me when reading books that almost seemed like a different language: I would read the books and take notes while I read it, making any connections, points, or even random ideas I thought about as I went along. Later, I would type these notes--for some reason this helped me absorb the material and TRULY understand it. After that, I could basically just study from those computer notes by reading them a few times over because by then, I knew the material enough to not need any hardcore studying.

I know law school will be different, but would this method be a huge waste of time?

Also, how and where can I learn to outline?? I feel like I'm 20 years behind.


+1.

I also balked at the term "outlining" and wondered what the heck this was. As a likely splitter, I would actually like to take a class or something on how to be good student, if such a thing exists


It's called TLS. Your teachers will be Arrow, Scribe, JayCutler'sCombOver, Wahoo1L, and Xeoh85.




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